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OC3D Review: Asus Crosshair III vs DFI 790FXB M3H5
- Thread starter w3bbo
- Start date
Rastalovich
New member
Jeez I'm quite surprized tbh.
Excellent review.
Shame on DFI with some of their onboard choices ALC885 and Marvell ? c'mon - throw in the jumper and I'd expect the mobo to be cheaper.
The ASUS tho, even as the DFI kept up with it (and it can be assumed better with the model up), very very nice figures for the gamer.
Things are looking green whilst blue seems to want to confuse. Weird that cos in other respects AMD would be ... red
Excellent review.
Shame on DFI with some of their onboard choices ALC885 and Marvell ? c'mon - throw in the jumper and I'd expect the mobo to be cheaper.
The ASUS tho, even as the DFI kept up with it (and it can be assumed better with the model up), very very nice figures for the gamer.
Things are looking green whilst blue seems to want to confuse. Weird that cos in other respects AMD would be ... red
mayhem
New member
yeh i7 is just extortion ...
What happened to our lovely sub £100 boards that used to perform like "some thing off a stick" ..
Now there filled with useless rubbish and fancy packaging that costs more than half the bit's inside the box.
I would like my £100 Sub boards that performed back .... This is a recession were in ...
God if i was a reviewer id be the most hated reviewer out there because im so critical or half the gear they stuff inside these things.
Reviews all say yeah you get 6 sata leads and a LCD and loads of fancy this and that. Me i say remove that and drop the price by £50 / £60 quid and ill be happy.
Half the Gimmicks are just that "Pure Gimmicks" nothing more.
Im trying to avoid this coming out as a rant more trying to point out facts.
Bling is just chav.....
Don't forget im a little old fashioned as well.
What happened to our lovely sub £100 boards that used to perform like "some thing off a stick" ..
Now there filled with useless rubbish and fancy packaging that costs more than half the bit's inside the box.
I would like my £100 Sub boards that performed back .... This is a recession were in ...
God if i was a reviewer id be the most hated reviewer out there because im so critical or half the gear they stuff inside these things.
Reviews all say yeah you get 6 sata leads and a LCD and loads of fancy this and that. Me i say remove that and drop the price by £50 / £60 quid and ill be happy.
Half the Gimmicks are just that "Pure Gimmicks" nothing more.
Im trying to avoid this coming out as a rant more trying to point out facts.
Bling is just chav.....
Don't forget im a little old fashioned as well.
I totally agree. However I do like a well rounded product. Packaging is a major plus point with me and they score highly if its done right.
Prices have rocketted though I do agree and yeah they could cut out half the crap but when you compare the Asus vs the DFI here, both costing more or less the same the Asus wins hands down for the bling and accessories alone, let alone performance.
Prices have rocketted though I do agree and yeah they could cut out half the crap but when you compare the Asus vs the DFI here, both costing more or less the same the Asus wins hands down for the bling and accessories alone, let alone performance.
name='mayhem' said:
The way I see it is that manufacturers tend to use these "Extras" as more of a way to justify the price to the public rather than to artificially inflate it (to extent).
SATA cables, LCD screens, fancy boxes are all bought in bulk...MASSIVE bulk from China or other cheap labour countries. At most every accessory in those boxes adds £5 to the price imo.
Take for example the Striker II...That was probably the most expensive lga775 board ever. But what most people didnt get was that the chipset alone cost ASUS £100 a piece, then ASUS had all of their board building costs on top of that, BIOS coding etc and at the end of the day when they totalled it up + adding profit, they realised oh sh*t..better make this at least appear to be "fully loaded" by jamming the box full of cheap extra's.
mayhem
New member
Didnt know that jim but still who is artificially inflating these prices ... Intel and AMD (chip sets). They need to get there act together.
There trying to increase there profits the wrong way. Cheaper in build = Higher more sales figures. Expensive = less sales , less profit more annoyed customers.
We have to remember as over clocker's, modders , water cooler ect ect were the minority and all ways will be. But why should we pay a premium price just to be in the minority.
If manufactures such as Asus ect turned around and refused to pay there prices AMD and Intel would have no choice but to drop there prices and this in turn forcing the price down.
There is a big difference between common sense and greed....
As for packaging . i worked in a ice cream factory once. the ice cream cost 2p to make the box was 12p (btw that was real ice cream the cheaper stuff was 0.05p yet packaging was same price). Packing cost more than ppl know.
There trying to increase there profits the wrong way. Cheaper in build = Higher more sales figures. Expensive = less sales , less profit more annoyed customers.
We have to remember as over clocker's, modders , water cooler ect ect were the minority and all ways will be. But why should we pay a premium price just to be in the minority.
If manufactures such as Asus ect turned around and refused to pay there prices AMD and Intel would have no choice but to drop there prices and this in turn forcing the price down.
There is a big difference between common sense and greed....
As for packaging . i worked in a ice cream factory once. the ice cream cost 2p to make the box was 12p (btw that was real ice cream the cheaper stuff was 0.05p yet packaging was same price). Packing cost more than ppl know.
You have to remember that the high end chipsets we use will not be seen in the mainstream for some time. I had to lol the other day when PC world were advertising the next generation in computing - pentium IV. Buying premium products such as we do will always attract premium prices. Why else would AMD and Intel still cater for the enthusiast?
name='mayhem' said:
Yeah agreed, but I do wonder sometimes if we (enthusiasts) are the problem. There are cheap motherboards out there, cheap CPU's too. You can buy some stupidly overclockable products (E7200 + ASRock) for next to nothing and almost double your speed with a bit of overclocking. But we dont. The roots we came from don't exist any more.
Its a bit like asking a Porsche owner why he didn't go and buy a Nova + a few grand of engine mods.
name='mayhem' said:
In this respect I think that motherboard manufacturers are in the same position as consumers. Until every motherboard manufacturer turns around to AMD/Intel/Nvidia and says "no, bugger off", nothing will happen.
Additionally if just ASUS was to say no, Gigabyte/DFI...etc would just use it as a chance to 'get in there first' with a new motherboard release.
Its a tough one to find a solution for and I'm certainly by no means sticking up for anyone. It's just things in the industry aren't as clear as they always seem. The people 'stiffing' us are often being 'stiffed' themselves on a much bigger scale.
mayhem
New member
toatly agree here with what your saying.
Me i still love my route. take a E5200 and blow a q9* to peace's.... No world record braker but a £45 CPU blowing a £150 CPU is what over clocking is about.
yes i have 3 x q6600 but they were bought at £99 each (which at the time was a real bargain) yet i wont move to i7 or i5 for that matter because its pointless and the speed is no good because no software really needs it.
Were quickly running into the ground now as im still running a 8800 GT and that still plays games fine. maybe not at the best looking it can be but then again why pay more for only a small increase.
I feel as though if i buy new hardware im just joining the sheep. (personal feeling). As there is not 1 thing out there yet that will increase my system 25 to 50% more and make a Big difference or impact to make me go "I really need that" ...
I think thats why i like modding because the end result is some one turns around afterwards and goes "I really need that" or "I really what that" for the right reasons.
p.s have you worked on dells lately its all fun trying to install xp on them. it will take you a good few hours of hunting around on the net finding out why it BSODS while installing ... been there last week.
and last but not least . just to upset quite a lot of ppl. there is "NO" skill in over clocking any more. .... with the right pre bought tools any one can do it. If you gave me enough money or free stuff i dare say i can beat any world record. (would love to be proved wrong)...
Me i still love my route. take a E5200 and blow a q9* to peace's.... No world record braker but a £45 CPU blowing a £150 CPU is what over clocking is about.
yes i have 3 x q6600 but they were bought at £99 each (which at the time was a real bargain) yet i wont move to i7 or i5 for that matter because its pointless and the speed is no good because no software really needs it.
Were quickly running into the ground now as im still running a 8800 GT and that still plays games fine. maybe not at the best looking it can be but then again why pay more for only a small increase.
I feel as though if i buy new hardware im just joining the sheep. (personal feeling). As there is not 1 thing out there yet that will increase my system 25 to 50% more and make a Big difference or impact to make me go "I really need that" ...
I think thats why i like modding because the end result is some one turns around afterwards and goes "I really need that" or "I really what that" for the right reasons.
p.s have you worked on dells lately its all fun trying to install xp on them. it will take you a good few hours of hunting around on the net finding out why it BSODS while installing ... been there last week.
and last but not least . just to upset quite a lot of ppl. there is "NO" skill in over clocking any more. .... with the right pre bought tools any one can do it. If you gave me enough money or free stuff i dare say i can beat any world record. (would love to be proved wrong)...
thats an ace thread, im following it up!
i feel like a stupid man sometimes cause i have an ace set of gear and i have no idea how to overclock :facepalm: Not to say i have a high end wc set and still i dunno how, besides when i try to my stupid striker II doesnt let me! i hate this dam mobo so fussy!
btw oc is not that esay may, cause none of the asus oc tools has ever worked for me.
great review webbo!
btw, when is asus changing their colour scheme, white and blue sucks hard, i thinnk its time for some black n red on connections or all red or all black
i feel like a stupid man sometimes cause i have an ace set of gear and i have no idea how to overclock :facepalm: Not to say i have a high end wc set and still i dunno how, besides when i try to my stupid striker II doesnt let me! i hate this dam mobo so fussy!
btw oc is not that esay may, cause none of the asus oc tools has ever worked for me.
great review webbo!
btw, when is asus changing their colour scheme, white and blue sucks hard, i thinnk its time for some black n red on connections or all red or all black
name='mayhem' said:
I wouldnt say "NO" skill, more like "Much Less" skill. There was a time where you had to play around with jumpers, dip switches and wiremods to achieve any kind of OC on your CPU. However, the process of overclocking has been simplified for quite some time now thanks to ABIT iirc for making the first motherboard with FSB options in the BIOS.
But there is some skill left in achieving the 'highest overclock'. FSB/Multi/Volts will only get you so far. Its the little tweaks, cooling mods, beta BIOS' etc that can make the difference between 4GHz and 4.4GHz. 'Knowing' your hardware does still play a part in the overclocking process, just not as much as it once did.
mayhem
New member
I dunno it seems most of the work is taken out of it. As in guess work.
I cannot remember the last time i volt modded properly or pencil tricked a Chip to gain more ratio's or even wire wrapping the pins for different ratio's.
I still remember pushing the amiga's to get more speed and the TI99 and modding the hell out of it to gain speed and do things that no one on earth intended for it. These are the route's i have come from hence why i say there is no skill in over clocking any more.
I still remember buying my first voodoo 1 and blowing it up in less than 24 hrs due to over clocking and not fully understanding how it worked. After a quick exchange with the place i bought it (naughty of me) i was back up and running doing it all again. I still remember the rage 3d add on cards and things like that and the early matrox's.
The little tweak with modern day systems are mainly us humans playing and learning as we go along. A new MB comes out were pushed to see what each setting does does how it reacts to pushing it that little further. I still say over clocking now a days is not difficult provided you have the money or resources.
It all so help having or knowing which chips are from a so called good batch.
Maybe im old fashioned and i prefer the "Old " methods of over clocking were jumper's and a calculator's was needed and we sat there for hours working out how to chuck in a few extra cap's and resistors to get a better over clock and having to grab your Soyo MB and volt mod the hell out of it just for a 10% to 20% increase in speed.
I still remember the days sitting in the bedroom making a VIC 20 be as fast as a commodore 64 with the disbelief of my mate. and actually having to build my own Sinclair and having to use a milk bottle off the door step to cool it down long enough for it to work (extreme cooling then).
Think ill stand buy what i said ... Over clocking has lost its roots and again Over clocking isn't as skill full as people would like you to think. Ill agree though getting them very few extra Hrtz is now the challenge.
I cannot remember the last time i volt modded properly or pencil tricked a Chip to gain more ratio's or even wire wrapping the pins for different ratio's.
I still remember pushing the amiga's to get more speed and the TI99 and modding the hell out of it to gain speed and do things that no one on earth intended for it. These are the route's i have come from hence why i say there is no skill in over clocking any more.
I still remember buying my first voodoo 1 and blowing it up in less than 24 hrs due to over clocking and not fully understanding how it worked. After a quick exchange with the place i bought it (naughty of me) i was back up and running doing it all again. I still remember the rage 3d add on cards and things like that and the early matrox's.
The little tweak with modern day systems are mainly us humans playing and learning as we go along. A new MB comes out were pushed to see what each setting does does how it reacts to pushing it that little further. I still say over clocking now a days is not difficult provided you have the money or resources.
It all so help having or knowing which chips are from a so called good batch.
Maybe im old fashioned and i prefer the "Old " methods of over clocking were jumper's and a calculator's was needed and we sat there for hours working out how to chuck in a few extra cap's and resistors to get a better over clock and having to grab your Soyo MB and volt mod the hell out of it just for a 10% to 20% increase in speed.
I still remember the days sitting in the bedroom making a VIC 20 be as fast as a commodore 64 with the disbelief of my mate. and actually having to build my own Sinclair and having to use a milk bottle off the door step to cool it down long enough for it to work (extreme cooling then).
Think ill stand buy what i said ... Over clocking has lost its roots and again Over clocking isn't as skill full as people would like you to think. Ill agree though getting them very few extra Hrtz is now the challenge.
Overclocking is easier, no doubts about it. However it is only easier because you no longer need to mod boards and CPU's, most boards have all the options you will need. However, there is still a fair amount of skill involved as a stable overclock is what most folk want these days and to get the max out of a CPU AND make it stable takes patience and a fair amount of knowledge. No longer is it a case of ramping up the vCore and FSB - Knowing your GTL ref voltages from your drive strengths etc helps.
It is easier in the fact we now have the 'tools' to overclock but harder in the fact there are just so many 'tools' to choose from. I will however agree that overclocking has lost alot of it's roots as it used to be about getting a cheap chip andrunning it faster than the range toppers. Now it seems he who has the most dosh will get the fastest setup.
We are however going quite a long way of topic guys. This is a review thread.
It is easier in the fact we now have the 'tools' to overclock but harder in the fact there are just so many 'tools' to choose from. I will however agree that overclocking has lost alot of it's roots as it used to be about getting a cheap chip andrunning it faster than the range toppers. Now it seems he who has the most dosh will get the fastest setup.
We are however going quite a long way of topic guys. This is a review thread.
PopcornMachine
New member
name='Jim' said:
Interesting conversation. I kind of see what you're saying ... overclocking isn't as challenging as it used to be ... so not as much motivation for some of you.
But in a larger picture, I think people are getting ripped off because they don't know what overclocking will buy them and how easy it is to get a lot more for your money. I've built a few systems over the years, but never overclocked much becuase, to be honest, it kind of scared me. And I didn't realize that it is the way to get most out of your money.
So I started overclocking about a year ago. My current system is a Q6600 and found that it went to 3.0GHz without any voltage increase. After that it became a little harder, but now have it stable at 3.4GHz. It's in a Gigabyte P45-UD3P (not too expensive) and has two HD 4830s. They are set to the max allowable overclock and run in crossfire when playing games.
All in all, a not very expensive yet good gaming system. And folds nice too with the cards and a Linux VM. The important thing is I picked these parts with overclocking in mind because of the research I had done. Instead of buying the real expensive CPU and motherboard, which I probably would have done in the past.
I have to disagree with some of what you've been saying Mayhem. Just because people don't have to hardmod their boards anymore, which wasn't necessarily an overclocking skill but more of an understanding of electronics skill, it doesn't mean there is no skill involved.
By saying there is absolutely no skill involved implies that someone who has never done it before could just walk up to a PC and overclock it. I know for a fact that isn't the case as I've just asked a couple of colleagues if they know what it is and how they would even attempt to go about it and they haven't a clue.
Also the comment above kind of confirms the point. I expect he's read up on how to overclock and has done an admirible just going to 3.4GHz on his Q6600. Point is that getting that stable at 4GHz can require quite an indepth knowledge of the motherboard and overclocking in general which I would call a skill.
Even then you can still mod boards if you want to / it's required. I was using a simple pencil mod on one of my boards up until recently to counter massive vdroop. Nothing major but still modding the board.
Saying there is no skill what so ever is a bit of an insult to anyone who has taken the time to bother reading up on it and make the effort.
On the subject of the review though... Nice one as ever Rich. Always look forward to the mobo reviews and at least it's not just another review of an X58 pumping out exactly the same results as all other X58's
By saying there is absolutely no skill involved implies that someone who has never done it before could just walk up to a PC and overclock it. I know for a fact that isn't the case as I've just asked a couple of colleagues if they know what it is and how they would even attempt to go about it and they haven't a clue.
Also the comment above kind of confirms the point. I expect he's read up on how to overclock and has done an admirible just going to 3.4GHz on his Q6600. Point is that getting that stable at 4GHz can require quite an indepth knowledge of the motherboard and overclocking in general which I would call a skill.
Even then you can still mod boards if you want to / it's required. I was using a simple pencil mod on one of my boards up until recently to counter massive vdroop. Nothing major but still modding the board.
Saying there is no skill what so ever is a bit of an insult to anyone who has taken the time to bother reading up on it and make the effort.
On the subject of the review though... Nice one as ever Rich. Always look forward to the mobo reviews and at least it's not just another review of an X58 pumping out exactly the same results as all other X58's
