Nvidia's AD104 RTX 4070 Ti GPU core has been pictured
- Thread starter WYP
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AngryGoldfish
Old N Gold
Yeah, I agree. I think people are expecting the glory days to continue indefinitely. That's just not realistic. Inflation is real. Wafer costs are real. Exchange rates and VAT increases are real. The idea of a 4070Ti costing £550 today is impossible.
On the flipside, what is absurd is, if it's £1000 or more, which is what the 4080 12GB would have been if Nvidia had their way. The 3080 cost was around £700. The 4080 16GB (which is a way smaller die) is £1300. That's an enormous price increase. If the 4080 16GB was £800, that would not be totally unrealistic or absurd. It would suck and I'd never be able to afford it, but I can't afford a lot of things I used to be able to afford. Inflation has gone up but my wages haven't. But the idea of a 4080 16GB being £700 still would be dreamland territory.
AlienALX
Well-known member
This. People simply don't get it.
I was going to post something like this the other day but got distracted with workload.
Any way, yeah, people need to understand the logistics here. I was having a trip down memory lane the other day and looked up a CPU I bought in 2001.
An AMD Duron. It was their "even cheaper than a Sempron" CPU released in the late 90s and carried on for about three years. Any way, if you look at the exposed die on that? 180nm People need to think about that for a moment. As a 5nm die? that would look like a grain of salt.
The problem is that competition has been high, and as usual companies like Nvidia need to innovate even when innovation is not needed due to the games. Those? will ALWAYS be held back by consoles. As such in this day and age you do not need to buy a GPU for about 5 years. If you consider that 10 years ago your GPU would be theoretically useless after about a year? yeah.
Demands increase year on year. As such? AMD and Nvidia need to meet those demands. And it is getting harder and harder and more and more expensive.
If you think for a moment how cheap a 180nm wafer would have been (pennies on the dollar) and how tiny that die is and how many they would have got from that wafer?
Those CPUs, from memory, were about £60-£80 IIRC. And they were as crude as oil. No IHS, literally nothing to stop you cracking the die apart from 4 little pads.
So I reiterate. It will not get better, and it will not get cheaper, and those days like you say are long gone.
People need to now focus on the GPUs that actually matter. And are affordable. Those are the ones where the innovation will bring rewards. Flagships? are flagships. They are not meant for you and the minute people realise that the better.
Not every one can afford a Ferrari. Not every one can afford a Lambo. But that's OK, as most people "get" that. People just aren't getting that there are technology products not meant for them, and expect Nvidia to be able to sell them those products at prices they can afford. It isn't going to happen, and the sooner people wake up and realise that? the better.
Which means it is time (though it never will be tbh) for reviewers and the like to start acting responsibly and making people understand these caveats. But they won't, will they?
It's the same reason why 13 year olds are stabbing each other to death in the streets over a pair of trainers. Because they simply don't understand that £150 trainers are not meant for them.
AngryGoldfish
Old N Gold
Yeah, most people game at 1440p/144Hz. That's the most common setup I think now. It's a perfect balance. The 6600XT will be playable, the 6700XT will be ideal, and the 6800XT will be amazing. Most of us don't need a 7900XTX or this 7990XTX rumoured thing that's going around at the moment. If a 4070Ti is out of your price range, then I'd ask myself if I even needed it. Maybe a 6700XT would be all you'd need for the next 2-3 years. And then you could just buy a cheap 7700XT or a cheap 4070Ti.
Dawelio
Active member
Very good post, which you've been doing lately with regards to 1440p and it's specification sweetspots. Very appreciated to read
Although as to your previous posts above, with the new pricing in comparison to the old one. Seeing as the 3080 launched over 2 years ago now, what would be an reasonable price for it today? The MSRP? More or less?...
AngryGoldfish
Old N Gold
Very good post, which you've been doing lately with regards to 1440p and it's specification sweetspots. Very appreciated to read
Although as to your previous posts above, with the new pricing in comparison to the old one. Seeing as the 3080 launched over 2 years ago now, what would be an reasonable price for it today? The MSRP? More or less?...
The 3080 is still too expensive in my opinion. I personally wouldn't buy a 3080 unless I needed RT or DLSS. And I definitely wouldn't buy a 3060-3070Ti. I'm still struggling to justify UK/EU pricing of RDNA2, and they are way better value than Ampere stock. There are some deals going around, but they're sporadic. I think the 'deal prices' should be the 'common prices'. As in, a 6700XT (or even a 6750XT) should be around £400 consistently now, and not just the cheaper cooler models. In reality they're £480+ with the occasional deal at or below £450. I've been eyeing a 6700-non XT model at about €440. That's not a bad deal, but I feel like it should be cheaper by this point, especially given that it's a small dual-slot cooler. A cutdown version of a midrange card that's been out for 2+ years on an old node with a cheap cooler shouldn't still be €440. You can't use inflation or wafer costs or shipping costs as excuses with such old GPUs.
AlienALX
Well-known member
Yeah the price drops on Nvidia have been appalling. They dropped for about two weeks, and once again only the high end cards made sense.
My friend got a 3080 12gb Strix for £720. Which imo was OK. Now? 10gb are still selling new for more.
AMD on the other hand have been super aggressive. There was a 6900XT going for £649 with over £100 of games with it (Callisto Protocol and Dead Island 2, both premium games).
They all sold out which is not surprising tbh.
And of course it's still all about 1440p. And it will be for a very long time, given the best monitors on the market are all 1440p.
Too much in the GPU world is always best, rather than just enough. Leaves a lot more wiggle room going into the future.
My friend got a 3080 12gb Strix for £720. Which imo was OK. Now? 10gb are still selling new for more.
AMD on the other hand have been super aggressive. There was a 6900XT going for £649 with over £100 of games with it (Callisto Protocol and Dead Island 2, both premium games).
They all sold out which is not surprising tbh.
And of course it's still all about 1440p. And it will be for a very long time, given the best monitors on the market are all 1440p.
Too much in the GPU world is always best, rather than just enough. Leaves a lot more wiggle room going into the future.
AngryGoldfish
Old N Gold
The high-end has actually seen the biggest drops in price from AMD. The 6900XT and the 6800 non-XT have seen some amazing prices considering the performance levels. They have the same price to performance as a 6650XT, which is bananas. Anyone looking for a high-end AMD GPU should be contented.
AlienALX
Well-known member
Deffo. I doubt their next gen £650 GPUs will beat these by much either, which is even more awesome.
AngryGoldfish
Old N Gold
Yeah, I imagine a 7700XT will be £600 and be at the same performance level of a 6900XT. The only real gains I think RDNA3 will bring at that level will a drop in power. That's nothing to turn a nose up at, but it's ignoring price to performance, which I think is the most important consideration and metric.
AlienALX
Well-known member
Power thing imo is not a big issue.
99% of the time I just hit the undervolt button. It's only in PUBG I overclock mine and that's only because it's a competitive BR. Where it sort of matters.
Due to running 1440p it has more than enough balls undervolted to run anything easily whilst consuming 100w less.
Like the CPUs everything now is pushed to being totally uncouth out of the box for reviews. You really don't need to run it like that.
99% of the time I just hit the undervolt button. It's only in PUBG I overclock mine and that's only because it's a competitive BR. Where it sort of matters.
Due to running 1440p it has more than enough balls undervolted to run anything easily whilst consuming 100w less.
Like the CPUs everything now is pushed to being totally uncouth out of the box for reviews. You really don't need to run it like that.
ImprovizoR
Active member
You know what else is not realistic? Expecting people to pay twice or three times as much as they used to for a toy, despite their salaries not being increased to match the inflation.
Dawelio
Active member
Came across this video which shows exactly what you're talking about regarding the 6700XT. Seems like the sweet spot for 1440p.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBUx-lB4S3U
AlienALX
Well-known member
I just built an itx rig with a 6700XT strix and it's a demon. A serious speed demon with lots of VRAM.
I mentioned in the build log how I felt happier building that rig than any other for years and years.
But yeah, it's on a 144hz IPS, no issues smashing that. My 6800XT is on a 165hz VA and it too has no problems smashing that.
And they're not spoiled by bugs any more either.
Oh and Adrenaline just shats on NVCP and Experience and you dont have to be blackmailed into handing over your email Addy.
I have a feeling many more are going to find this all out soon.
Funny how they keep saying we need more competition but just carry on buying from Jen.
I mentioned in the build log how I felt happier building that rig than any other for years and years.
But yeah, it's on a 144hz IPS, no issues smashing that. My 6800XT is on a 165hz VA and it too has no problems smashing that.
And they're not spoiled by bugs any more either.
Oh and Adrenaline just shats on NVCP and Experience and you dont have to be blackmailed into handing over your email Addy.
I have a feeling many more are going to find this all out soon.
Funny how they keep saying we need more competition but just carry on buying from Jen.
Dawelio
Active member
Interesting read here to be honest... I do feel however that as I've gotten older, turning 30 next year, having the latest and greatest isn't the most appealing anymore. Having the most reasonable and "best bang for your buck" is.
Since in the end, the highest fps won't give me anymore satisfaction than what the next step down would.
AlienALX
Well-known member
Well as a twice married single man my days of having to think about someone else are over. So for me? I like having a good GPU. However, I will say that I am no longer happy buying high end ones because of the price. Mostly because I just worry myself stupid that they are going to die out of warranty.
It's a big deal for me to hand over large sums of money like that. Like, I literally have to do nothing and spend nothing for a month or more. Which is no longer fun.
I see people buying stuff like this all of the time, who can't really afford to. Then they have to sell, which is never a good position to be in. Especially now. That is why I go without for a month, as it is then paid for and I don't need to recoup anything. Hence why I now have like 5 GPUs. The feeling I have backups is more important to me than desperately trying to recoup cash to buy another one.
We have also reached what I call "Pascal equilibrium" again. IE, buying anything more than two gen ago high end (2080Ti) is an absolute waste of time if you are on 1440p.
Pascal did the same thing. Stopped you needing a new GPU every two years, so long as you weren't on the 4k crack pipe. Whilst Nvidia and AMD may be trying to get people onto the 8k heroin dragon? I can't see it happening. 4k was a much bigger small deal than 8k. You need to sell both kidneys to afford the display for starters.
