Nvidia announces their $3000 Titan V Volta GPU

[AlienALX]

There we go, I knew I wasn't dreaming ! I have underlined three key parts.

1. Tensor cores. These were completely missing from Pascal, and are what the card needs for its deep learning and DP compute.

2. Single Precision. This is what is important to us, and games, and most of the stuff we use a GPU for.

3. The Double Precision performance. As you can see, it demolishes the Pascal cards because it was almost non existent on those. However, it could be ten times that, it would still be useless to us. A lot of DP stuff has to be coded by the user. It's very similar to the Xeon Phi etc. Without the code? it's useless.

Now you will note that Single Precision Tflops are 13.8 Tflops. The Radeon Vega 64 is capable of 12.66. This is why when AMD made a statement to say "The Vega 64 is up there with the Titan Xp" they were not kidding. At certain tasks the 64 is indeed right up there with the Xp. Sadly though again for us gamers it means jack.

I also mentioned that the last time Nvidia made a big fat powerhouse of a GPU it was an epic fail for gamers (the 480). It is very similar here, too. However, with AMD determined to make GCN a thing Nvidia would have been looking over their shoulder, because if this stuff ever gets supported in games (and it will, because AMD hold the keys to both consoles) then Nvidia will need something to compete. Hence, Volta.

However, right now, just like Vega Volta is going to be a complete waste of time for gamers. However, I am also sticking to what I said about Vega in the context of "Maybe somewhere in the future it will have a clear lead over the 1080" and I still think I am right.

With Nvidia now pushing this deep learning stuff game developers may just sit up and listen. If they do? then Vega will become a much better technology than it is today, IMO.

Thing is, how long is a piece of string? as I also mentioned at launch, by the time it's supported Vega will probably be old/running out of VRAM.

Always remember. Fermi - fantastic for folding.
AMD GCN - fantastic for mining..

 

[NeverBackDown]

People do have other options even if they only buy from NVidia.

The GTX 1080 is a very good gaming card at any resolution and if people just bought those and none of the higher cards like the 1080 Ti or Titans NVidia would soon get the message.

Personally I would be quite happy gaming on a 6gb GTX 1060 even at 4k with the settings turned down a bit as I enjoy the gameplay far more than the visuals.

I do have some fast cards but I use them for other things as well as gaming otherwise I would do what I have typed above.

I do not think the other option is buying a cheaper yet still expensive card from the same company.

 

[Kaapstad]

I do not think the other option is buying a cheaper yet still expensive card from the same company.

It would force NVidia to look at the price of their top tier cards if no one was buying them.

 

[AlienALX]

It would force NVidia to look at the price of their top tier cards if no one was buying them.

Problem is people are buying them. They are already sold out.

They could market a dog poo and people would still buy it.

 

[TheF34RChannel]

Problem is people are buying them. They are already sold out.

They could market a dog poo and people would still buy it.

Precisely! This is coming from a multiple decade Nvidia user: enough is enough! Sadly these inhumane priced cards are here to stay. I blame miners, high memory prices and zero competition.

I'll be so amused when those who bought this for gaming come back disappointed. I could buy a Quadro card for games and be disappointed and complain about the price/performance

 

[looz]

Well we can all speculate on how the Volta mainstream cards will be priced, since deep learning is all the hype that could well be the only reason for the pricing.

Anyhow if the leaked benchmarks are to be believed, Dx11 performance is almost stagnant yet Dx12 is up to 60% faster. So might they finally have Dx12 in the bag like AMD has for a while?

Based on the leaks I'm thinking the next generation won't be a leap in terms of Dx11 games but Dx12 might be another story entirely.

 

[AlienALX]

Well we can all speculate on how the Volta mainstream cards will be priced, since deep learning is all the hype that could well be the only reason for the pricing.

Anyhow if the leaked benchmarks are to be believed, Dx11 performance is almost stagnant yet Dx12 is up to 60% faster. So might they finally have Dx12 in the bag like AMD has for a while?

Based on the leaks I'm thinking the next generation won't be a leap in terms of Dx11 games but Dx12 might be another story entirely.

We ain't getting mainstream Volta, dude. We are getting Ampere, which according to rumour could just be die shrunken Pascal.

If you read about Volta and the die size etc it may help you understand the price.

It is not, repeat, is NOT a gaming GPU. It's like you asking me to build you a BMX and me building you a professional carbon fibre Olympics bike, me telling you £5000 and you saying you only wanted a BMX.

Volta may become a gaming tech if we ever get proper Async support but that could be years off.

Forget it even exists. It's like a 32 core CPU to you. Pointless and needless.

 

[looz]

Well, Ampere then. Still, it's not like they're entirely different top to bottom. There has clearly been some progress in terms of Dx12, and I don't think that can be attributed to the HBM, Double Precision or Tensor cores. Obviously I'm not calling Titan V a gaming card.

But it isn't outrageous to use it as a taste of things to come, so to speak.

 

[AlienALX]

Well, Ampere then. Still, it's not like they're entirely different top to bottom. There has clearly been some progress in terms of Dx12, and I don't think that can be attributed to the HBM, Double Precision or Tensor cores. Obviously I'm not calling Titan V a gaming card.

But it isn't outrageous to use it as a taste of things to come, so to speak.

Nvidia have been making and selling us gaming cards for years. Ever since Fermi they cut out all of the crap gamers didn't need (like all of the heavy stuff) and gave us what we did need (small dies huge clock speeds etc).

Whilst AMD became obsessed with tank dies Nvidia learned that it was stupid and gave gamers what we needed and wanted. And because of that AMD have basically signed their own death warrant, apparently learning nothing from Nvidia almost going out of business over Fermi. Fermi was so bad that for a while Nvidia cut out the middle man and sold their own branded 460s to Best Buy.

Nvidia called the 7970 AMD's Fermi lol. What did AMD learn? Bugger all. They are determined to get Async into gaming. Nvidia on the other hand have done everything right. Made what we wanted and needed when we wanted and needed it and now they have their Async tech, Volta.

If and when we ever need it? Nvidia will sell it to us. Until then they will just keep selling what we want and need whilst RTG drives itself into the ground.

Raja tried to pull AMD away from Hindenburg cores with Polaris (gaming cores for gaming) but RTG are just determined to keep making Fermi hay, the total f*****g idiots.

It really is nobody else's fault but their own.

 

[looz]

What on earth are you on about?

 

[Dawelio]

If enough people follow suit, things do change, slowly but surely. People have put their foot down regarding Intel. People have put their foot down regarding EA. People have put their foot down regarding Sony and their terrible Amazing Spider-Man reboot. Things changed.

Difference here is that Nvidia doesn't care nor is anybody really in a position to challenge them. There is no competition for people to switch to because AMD is so far behind and the common incorrect notion amongst gamers is that AMD sucks and Nvidia is equal to Gaben. So people will try all they want. It won't change anything.

This, so much this. Nvidia can literally do what they like and people will still buy their products without question. Remember the GameWorks incident? Nothing happened. I'll go out on a limb and say Nvidia fans are actually worse than Intel fans. Anyone two halves short of a full brain will know that anyone buying the Titan V for gaming are beyond comprehension. I really hope Navi and beyond really do bring AMD back into contention on the GPU front.

This is what I was on about Goldfish, I'm very well aware that if enough people put their foot down, a change will happen.
But this is completely different, as this is Nvidia and the mindset is completely different as well.
As I'm quite certain about, everyone in here will agree with me on this; Nvidia can price whatever they want, because they know people will still buy them. And people do.

Nvidia have been making and selling us gaming cards for years. Ever since Fermi they cut out all of the crap gamers didn't need (like all of the heavy stuff) and gave us what we did need (small dies huge clock speeds etc).

Whilst AMD became obsessed with tank dies Nvidia learned that it was stupid and gave gamers what we needed and wanted. And because of that AMD have basically signed their own death warrant, apparently learning nothing from Nvidia almost going out of business over Fermi. Fermi was so bad that for a while Nvidia cut out the middle man and sold their own branded 460s to Best Buy.

Nvidia called the 7970 AMD's Fermi lol. What did AMD learn? Bugger all. They are determined to get Async into gaming. Nvidia on the other hand have done everything right. Made what we wanted and needed when we wanted and needed it and now they have their Async tech, Volta.

If and when we ever need it? Nvidia will sell it to us. Until then they will just keep selling what we want and need whilst RTG drives itself into the ground.

Raja tried to pull AMD away from Hindenburg cores with Polaris (gaming cores for gaming) but RTG are just determined to keep making Fermi hay, the total f*****g idiots.

It really is nobody else's fault but their own.

What on earth are you on about?

Haha, I agree with Looz... What are you on about? :huh:

 

[Kaapstad]

This is what I was on about Goldfish, I'm very well aware that if enough people put their foot down, a change will happen.
But this is completely different, as this is Nvidia and the mindset is completely different as well.
As I'm quite certain about, everyone in here will agree with me on this; Nvidia can price whatever they want, because they know people will still buy them. And people do.

The price of the Volta Titan is actually very fair as it costs NVidia a lot to produce these cards. The dies are very large and have very poor yields, HBM2 is not cheap either. This is not a gaming card as has been pointed out many times, it is a cheaper professional card and should be judged on that basis.

Haha, I agree with Looz... What are you on about? :huh:

AlienALX is highlighting the fact that AMD have been guilty of putting a lot of stuff on their gaming cards that hinders performance and increases the cost. If anyone wants to point out that AMD don't have the money to produce separate gaming and pro card dies should remember that this has been going on for a long time right back to the HD 7970 days for example when they did have more cash.

 

[TheF34RChannel]

We ain't getting mainstream Volta, dude. We are getting Ampere, which according to rumour could just be die shrunken Pascal.

I'm still skeptical about ampère. Only one obscure source speculated it... 50/50 I'd say...

 

[AngryGoldfish]

Yeah, I'm not 100% sold on Ampere either. It makes more sense than releasing Volta in its current format, but therein lies what I think Ampere is going to be, if it comes to be: a cut-down Volta design without the DP performance and Tensor cores and without the HBM2. Without those features you'll essentially have a tweaked version of Pascal, right? But if gaming performance increases and prices are not extortionate (I think the original 1080 and 1070 prices were extortionate and still are slightly too high) then they'll sell well and completely dominate the market until Navi in 2019. Unless Vega can be refreshed with the 12nm process and clock speeds can be increased dramatically, Vega 64/56 is not going to be very competitive, and Polaris is going to struggle against Ampere's midrange and low-end sector. Vega 11 might only be available on the APUs so I don't know whether Vega 11 will actually replace Polaris and compete with Volta/Ampere in the midrange market.

 

[Kaapstad]

I'm still skeptical about ampère. Only one obscure source speculated it... 50/50 I'd say...

I think the reason for the Volta Titan is for NVidia to offload surplus/substandard GV100 chips. This does not mean there will be a Volta range of gaming cards and leaves the door open for NVidia to launch Ampere in 6 or 9 months.

Two other clues that NVidia intend to continue selling Pascal based gaming cards for the next 6 to 9 months.

1. The 1070 Ti has just launched, this would be pointless if Volta was just around the corner.

2. The lack of SLI/mGPU with the Titan Volta, if there was going to be a range of Volta gaming cards anytime soon NVidia would have put some work into designing a new PCB to cater for at least 2 way SLI. As I am guessing the Titan Volta is a one off card purely to offload spare GV100 chips it would be a waste of resources and money for NVidia to do any more work than needed to get it on the shelves.

 

[AlienALX]

Haha, I agree with Looz... What are you on about? :huh:

I was talking about what Ampere may be. Sadly I was using my phone in bed and as I went to post it the forum said "We are performing maintenance" or something and a chunk of it was lost.

What I mean is we still don't really need Async yet. So Nvidia will continue giving us what we need. Ampere, providing it's a shrink and thus faster etc should be more than sufficient for now. Now the price of it? yeah, that could suck.

Yeah, I'm not 100% sold on Ampere either. It makes more sense than releasing Volta in its current format, but therein lies what I think Ampere is going to be, if it comes to be: a cut-down Volta design without the DP performance and Tensor cores and without the HBM2. Without those features you'll essentially have a tweaked version of Pascal, right? But if gaming performance increases and prices are not extortionate (I think the original 1080 and 1070 prices were extortionate and still are slightly too high) then they'll sell well and completely dominate the market until Navi in 2019. Unless Vega can be refreshed with the 12nm process and clock speeds can be increased dramatically, Vega 64/56 is not going to be very competitive, and Polaris is going to struggle against Ampere's midrange and low-end sector. Vega 11 might only be available on the APUs so I don't know whether Vega 11 will actually replace Polaris and compete with Volta/Ampere in the midrange market.

Ampere does not need to be Volta. Not yet... It might be, but I find it odd that they would call it something else tbh, even if it was cut down to nearly nothing. I just don't think they are done with Maxwell yet and if they can shrink Pascal and get the same sort of gains they got then why not? I mean, Intel have done plenty of shrinking and releasing themselves...

I won't mind if Ampere is fast. Like, the 30% we come to expect. Like I said in my incredibly tired post in bed Nvidia give us what we need. Well, they have since Fermi. The 200 series stunk as well really.

If you go back to this...

And look at "GPU" and the die size.. Volta is absolutely and utterly massive. It is nearly twice as big as Pascal small P ! Now add to that massive failure rates (defective areas on wafers you can't get around with huge dies) and the HBM2? that is why the price. I would almost bet that Titan V costs literally twice as much or more to make than Titan Xp (small pee lol).

If we don't need all of that for gaming what's the point in wasting money giving it to us, then passing on the costs? they may as well just stick to what they have been doing.

 

[RobM]

and so it goes that Nvidia is in such a dominant position it can pretty much do what it likes.
I wonder when the full GP will get released

 

[Dicehunter]

and so it goes that Nvidia is in such a dominant position it can pretty much do what it likes.
I wonder when the full GP will get released

The full GPU is already out, The Tesla V100, The Titan V is simply a Tesla V100 that didn't quite make the grade in the bus width, Memory department.

 

[SPS]

What I mean is we still don't really need Async yet.

Are you referring to async compute?

 

[Chopper3]

Just remember, this isn't a video card, it doesn't have any output ports or a frame-buffer - it's for tensorflow analysis/ML - it cannot in any way play games.