MSI Geforce RTX 2080 Ti and RTX 2080 Gaming X TRIO pictured

[Dawelio]

It certainly is. If you read the posts on here you would understand how incredibly jaded many of us are with games in general and "gaming PCs" even more.

So you can understand our pessimism I assume.

Here we are, being sold a technology a year or two after some of us paid £1300 for a GPU, and being told that our GTX cards are basically old hat and useless going into the future. Oh but that's OK, all you need to do is spend another £1300 to fix that.

Yeah, right.

I just love your posts dude, they are so rough, harsch and hard. But they are true though, which makes it all even better in my opinion and keeps my on track (ie, not getting into buying this new generation, as my current 1080 Ti Strix does more than everything I want it to ), which you already know all too well about by now

 

[AlienALX]

I just love your posts dude, they are so rough, harsch and hard. But they are true though, which makes it all even better in my opinion and keeps my on track (ie, not getting into buying this new generation, as my current 1080 Ti Strix does more than everything I want it to ), which you already know all too well about by now

What you will be paying for now is a grand - £1500 (assuming next Titan is that price) for a little more RT each time. AMD are fading into oblivion and trust me, if you thought it was only Intel who would s**t on you you are wrong. Nvidia are *the* most nasty company ever in PC tech. Most companies won't even work with them any more (even Intel !) because of their terrible behaviour in the past.

So by the time I reckon we will see properly fully rendered RT games? you would have spent about £6000+. To play games. On a computer.

Games just haven't improved. They are just getting worse all of the time. And we are expected to get excited and hand over enormous chunks of cash for that?

LOL last year I spent £675 to render a pretty terrible looking FO4 at 4k. I succeeded, but I had to question myself considerably over the following year and yeah, I don't want to play the game (pardon, pun) any more.

I probably spent upward of two grand throwing power at Crysis years before it could be run easily on reasonably priced hardware.

I will nip back in about five years and scoop up a mid range card. Until then my Xbox can do anything (especially when running at 4k from 18ft away) that my PC can.

 

[g0ggles1994]

Well I know what I'm definitively doing now. Was going to get a GTX 1080Ti for Metro but you know, as Alien said, Nvidia are just pushing RTX to make people part with their cash for a gimmick that won't be properly utilized anytime soon so sod that. Despite I said I could never recommend one to anyone, I'm getting Vega 64 instead.

 

[KingNosser]

Nvidia might be out the gate first and most likely have the extra power, but they don't own DXR it's only a new API AMD will be able to design and build hardware that will utilize it. So while I like progress I wait and see first and tbh after seeing that car demo DXR and the whole ray-tracing wasn't fully perfect if you pay attention to the demo your notice that not everything is reflecting only certain elements/textures, so while it looks a lot nicer it's by no means perfect in my view.

I really want to see AMD attack the GPU market like they have the CPU market I think people give Nvidia too much credit and ATI were once top dog so it can all change around, but nvidia have the R&D budget atm.

Plus knowing nvidia it'll put a premium price on the new cards pushing the price up further and I'm just not going to be willing to pay for that, regardless I will be sticking to my SLI 970's for another generation I feel as the DXR is just to new zero games until feb with metro exodus need a lot more than 1 game to make me want to spend.

I am more ready to switch to AMD next time than I have been in the past I think they are doing good things and competing in different segments and I'd like to support that I'm already going to ditch Intel for a Ryzen at some point why not dump Nvidia at the same time and save some money.

 

[TheF34RChannel]

Well I know what I'm definitively doing now. Was going to get a GTX 1080Ti for Metro but you know, as Alien said, Nvidia are just pushing RTX to make people part with their cash for a gimmick that won't be properly utilized anytime soon so sod that. Despite I said I could never recommend one to anyone, I'm getting Vega 64 instead.

I honestly think that you'll seriously regret going with that much inferior and frankly outdated card, especially in a game like metro. Forgetting RT for a minute, Turing will be the beast for that, and other, titles. Don't shoot yourself in the foot over principles, instead warrant yourself the performance you seek.

 

[Dawelio]

I honestly think that you'll seriously regret going with that much inferior and frankly outdated card, especially in a game like metro. Forgetting RT for a minute, Turing will be the beast for that, and other, titles. Don't shoot yourself in the foot over principles, instead warrant yourself the performance you seek.

I can understand where you’re coming from, I do. But at what cost though? If the leaked images are anything to go buy, a dual 8 pin card? Yeah, that doesn’t sound like more power efficient to me over the 1080 Ti cards.
Plus, as mentioned above, the cost. Would they be worth £1000+?...

 

[g0ggles1994]

I honestly think that you'll seriously regret going with that much inferior and frankly outdated card, especially in a game like metro. Forgetting RT for a minute, Turing will be the beast for that, and other, titles. Don't shoot yourself in the foot over principles, instead warrant yourself the performance you seek.

I can understand where you’re coming from, I do. But at what cost though? If the leaked images are anything to go buy, a dual 8 pin card? Yeah, that doesn’t sound like more power efficient to me over the 1080 Ti cards.
Plus, as mentioned above, the cost. Would they be worth £1000+?...

Well considering I'm largely stumped by budget and now I can pick up a Vega 64 for £450 brand new, the insane asking price for the RTX cards (if this £1000+ turns out to be correct) can go play in traffic as far as I care. As Dawelio said, 'Would they be worth £1000+?' No, absolutely not. I'd rather sink around £500 on a Vega card and use the other £500 on other things

I genuinely don't care for RTX right now, I'll just switch it off. The same way I've had a perfectly satisfactory experience playing the previous Metro's and other games that have stuff like Gameworks and PhysX using my RX480 by switching all that BS off. I am only running at 1080p 60FPS so any performance boost any other card would offer won't even be noticeable and I utterly, utterly doubt I'll be moving to 1440p or 2160p anytime soon either.

 

[TheF34RChannel]

Well considering I'm largely stumped by budget and now I can pick up a Vega 64 for £450 brand new, the insane asking price for the RTX cards (if this £1000+ turns out to be correct) can go play in traffic as far as I care. As Dawelio said, 'Would they be worth £1000+?' No, absolutely not. I'd rather sink around £500 on a Vega card and use the other £500 on other things

I genuinely don't care for RTX right now, I'll just switch it off. The same way I've had a perfectly satisfactory experience playing the previous Metro's and other games that have stuff like Gameworks and PhysX using my RX480 by switching all that BS off. I am only running at 1080p 60FPS so any performance boost any other card would offer won't even be noticeable and I utterly, utterly doubt I'll be moving to 1440p or 2160p anytime soon either.

Ah put it like that and I get what you mean.

 

[AngryGoldfish]

Vega 64 is still a very hard sell. £450 is £50 more than what it should have been a year ago. Well, to be fair, I think £450 for enthusiast non-reference designs would have been a fair introductory price (with £400 going for the reference and cheaper designs). I would have bought one instead of a GTX 1080 for £450. But they were closer to £600, sometimes much higher than that. I've seen a few recent Vega 64 vs GTX 1080 benchmarks redone with brand new drivers and all the newest games, and the 1080 still wins more than it loses at a much lower TDP. And when it does lose, it doesn't lose by miles. But when the Vega card loses, it can be pretty crummy. PUBG is example of that.

 

[AlienALX]

Would they be worth £1000+?...

That there is a GTX 590. As you can see, it has two *enormous* cores on it. However when it launched it cost "only" £590.

Now ask yourself if a Titan V is worth £3000...

Some companies don't gouge their own customers when competition falls to the wayside. Some, however, do.

There is no better way of showing contempt than by screwing your own customers, and loyal fans. However, it seems Nvidia are not screwing hard enough because people just keep on lapping it up.

It *is* capitalism, but when capitalism meets any hobby or fun pastime it inevitably ruins it.

Honestly in 20 years time Jen will roll up to shows in his electric wheelchair, roll onto the stage and say "Buy my stuff you stupid c**ts !" roll off and be a billionaire all over again.

 

[TheF34RChannel]

Will he still sport a leather jacket though, is the real question...?

 

[Dicehunter]

Will he still sport a leather jacket though, is the real question...?

I've watched 4 of his presentations and they are all the same, Come on stage in a leather jacket, Boast about advancements, Repeat certain words or sentences 3-4 times back to back -

"And it's a real game changer, A real game changer, Game changer"

Then cite some stats and then present the new GPU with a few numbers with pricing etc...

Show end.

 

[TheF34RChannel]

I've watched 4 of his presentations and they are all the same, Come on stage in a leather jacket, Boast about advancements, Repeat certain words or sentences 3-4 times back to back -

"And it's a real game changer, A real game changer, Game changer"

Then cite some stats and then present the new GPU with a few numbers with pricing etc...

Show end.

Yes! Yes! Can't watch it without ample sighing

 

[grec]

To be fair, while there will definitely be some degree of "gouging", the GTX590's dies were only ~520mm^2, making these Turing dies around 50% larger. Cost generally scales fairly exponentially with die size as not only do you have fewer dies per wafer, but also a higher %age of wafer wasted(Fitting big squares into a circle) and a linearly higher rate of defects per die.

 

[AngryGoldfish]

Alien, I think that's a bit dramatic and imaginative. The GTX 590 came out a long time ago. It was a different time with widely different circumstances. The value of the pound was sooooo much stronger, RAM prices were much lower, large die shrinks were coming every generation (until 28nm), and competition was fiercer. It's not an apples to apples comparison. I do know what you mean; I largely agree with it. Nvidia are indeed selling themselves here. They have potentially an amazing architecture on their hands, and they're charging for it. I'm quite confident that if AMD were in a similar situation and had an equally competitive architecture, if RAM prices were lower, and the value of the GBP was stronger, this new 2080Ti would be £700. So putting all the blame on Nvidia is not fair. I'm not condoning their actions, but it makes sense. They are market leaders. They are the dominate company when it comes to graphics. There's no one else out there capable of competing. It's not Apple versus Google. It's not Apple versus Microsoft. It's not Intel versus Samsung. It's not Lexus versus Volvo. It's not Tesco versus Asda. Nvidia is without a doubt the top dog. I don't think Nvidia are shafting their consumers. Intel shafted their consumers with the 7600K, in my opinion. Turing looks like it could be an absolute monster. At the very least it could offer huge performance increases over what was already a dominating architecture.

 

[AlienALX]

Alien, I think that's a bit dramatic and imaginative. The GTX 590 came out a long time ago. It was a different time with widely different circumstances. The value of the pound was sooooo much stronger, RAM prices were much lower, large die shrinks were coming every generation (until 28nm), and competition was fiercer. It's not an apples to apples comparison. I do know what you mean; I largely agree with it. Nvidia are indeed selling themselves here. They have potentially an amazing architecture on their hands, and they're charging for it. I'm quite confident that if AMD were in a similar situation and had an equally competitive architecture, if RAM prices were lower, and the value of the GBP was stronger, this new 2080Ti would be £700. So putting all the blame on Nvidia is not fair. I'm not condoning their actions, but it makes sense. They are market leaders. They are the dominate company when it comes to graphics. There's no one else out there capable of competing. It's not Apple versus Google. It's not Apple versus Microsoft. It's not Intel versus Samsung. It's not Lexus versus Volvo. It's not Tesco versus Asda. Nvidia is without a doubt the top dog. I don't think Nvidia are shafting their consumers. Intel shafted their consumers with the 7600K, in my opinion. Turing looks like it could be an absolute monster. At the very least it could offer huge performance increases over what was already a dominating architecture.

OK well we'll see for ourselves what happens when Nvidia introduce the thousand pound Ti soon.

Will see just how many want to continue on PC gaming when it costs them at least a grand a year just to keep up with, well, nothing.

And I am putting the blame on Nvidia and I will continue to do so. I spent many years blaming Intel and then all of a sudden Ryzen releases and people finally agree with me. That wasn't a fluke, it was just them realising how much Intel had been fleecing them.

I am done with PC gaming. It has always been about snobbery and showing off, with tons of issues and problems. I mean things like ultra wide GAMING MONITORZ OMG that don't work with lots of games because of the odd resolution and 4KAY MKAY? GAMING that killed your GPU and again, hardly ever looked great because many games don't have 4k textures.

It's all almost snake oil. None of it improves your gaming and all of it costs absolutely RIDICULOUS amounts of coin.

I paid £340 for a XB1X and I tell you for gaming it's exactly the same as my PC which I spent several thousand pounds on.

 

[AngryGoldfish]

OK well we'll see for ourselves what happens when Nvidia introduce the thousand pound Ti soon.

Will see just how many want to continue on PC gaming when it costs them at least a grand a year just to keep up with, well, nothing.

And I am putting the blame on Nvidia and I will continue to do so. I spent many years blaming Intel and then all of a sudden Ryzen releases and people finally agree with me. That wasn't a fluke, it was just them realising how much Intel had been fleecing them.

I am done with PC gaming. It has always been about snobbery and showing off, with tons of issues and problems. I mean things like ultra wide GAMING MONITORZ OMG that don't work with lots of games because of the odd resolution and 4KAY MKAY? GAMING that killed your GPU and again, hardly ever looked great because many games don't have 4k textures.

It's all almost snake oil. None of it improves your gaming and all of it costs absolutely RIDICULOUS amounts of coin.

I paid £340 for a XB1X and I tell you for gaming it's exactly the same as my PC which I spent several thousand pounds on.

But to me that sounds more like frustration as a whole and not just frustration with Nvidia. Which I again agree with. When I first started becoming serious about PC hardware in 2014, things were looking quite optimistic. Maxwell was about to blow the bloody doors off, Broadwell was supposed to be the first 14nm beast, and Skylake was then supposed to bring six cores to the masses and mainstream. And Fiji, HBM, DX12, these were developments that were going to put Radeon back on top. But despite all the grumblings, Maxwell was the only thing that actually delivered the goods. DX12 fell flat as did AMD. Broadwell was a disaster and Skylake was just Haswell with a few IPC improvements. M.2 storage became a thing, which was great, but DDR4 was ridiculously expensive and stayed that way. SSD's stayed at unattainable prices. Water cooling and modding improved a lot. That was exciting. Really, when I look back, it's Nvidia that has consistently produced excellent products. I find it hard to call a company producing such amazing technology totally 'anti-consumer'. How can someone call Nvidia 'anti-consumer' when they own one of their flagship GPUs themselves and praise it to high heavens? The boot doesn't quite fit.

PC gaming is definitely a snobbish community. But anyone who's enthusiastic and passionate about something is usually considered snobbish. Cyclists, whiskey drinkers, foodies, musicians, they all love their hobby so much that they become snobs. It's inherent. PC gaming does improve your experience, but you have to work for it. That's the principle. And it's a principle that's shared across multiple platforms. Want to be an excellent cook and understand and appreciate food to the fullest? You can't just buy a pizza from Tesco; you have to build your own pizza stove and heat that sucker to ridiculous temperatures. You need a paddle you bought from an Italian grandmother. You need the freshest dough. You need marinara sauce made from San Marzano tomatoes and wild garlic. You need buffalo mozzarella made in Caserta. But do you REALLY need those things to enjoy a pizza? Not really, no. But some think it's worth the effort. I still think it's worth it, but I don't have the money any more, nor the time or energy to invest in it.

You never needed to spend thousands on a PC to enjoy PC gaming. An £800 system would have given you far more performance than a console. Plus it would be an actual PC and not just an entertainment system. You could run a business, browse the web, game, etc. Nowadays all you need is an RX 580, a 1080p/144hz monitor, a nice optical mouse and mechanical keyboard, an AMD 2600, a cheapo motherboard, 16GB of DDR4, a 500GB SSD, and you're away. I'd rather that than a console. The only reason I'd buy a console over that is because consoles have games that aren't available on PC.

 

[Daiyus]

OK well we'll see for ourselves what happens when Nvidia introduce the thousand pound Ti soon.

Will see just how many want to continue on PC gaming when it costs them at least a grand a year just to keep up with, well, nothing.

And I am putting the blame on Nvidia and I will continue to do so. I spent many years blaming Intel and then all of a sudden Ryzen releases and people finally agree with me. That wasn't a fluke, it was just them realising how much Intel had been fleecing them.

I am done with PC gaming. It has always been about snobbery and showing off, with tons of issues and problems. I mean things like ultra wide GAMING MONITORZ OMG that don't work with lots of games because of the odd resolution and 4KAY MKAY? GAMING that killed your GPU and again, hardly ever looked great because many games don't have 4k textures.

It's all almost snake oil. None of it improves your gaming and all of it costs absolutely RIDICULOUS amounts of coin.

I paid £340 for a XB1X and I tell you for gaming it's exactly the same as my PC which I spent several thousand pounds on.

For me the PC is about the build. I grew up on consoles, loved every second, but I moved on to PC when I wanted to be more hands on.

I'm in the throes of (very slowly) gathering parts for my first custom loop. I've had the core hardware running for the best part of a year on air but I want the experience of building a custom cooled PC. I love hardware, and tinkering but god damn it's getting expensive to keep up with the hardware curve. It could well be the last PC I ever build if prices keep rising.

I’m getting a case that’ll last for a good while and building the custom loop into it so that any future hardware changes will go into this framework but I can’t imagine swapping away from my R5 1600 and Vega 56 any time soon.

I've had an Xbox One connected to the TV for few years. Recently got a PS4 and got them both set up at my desk so I can do all my gaming in my nerd corner as I wasn’t actually gaming on the Xbox on the TV. I'm already pricing up upgrades to the X and Pro; it'll be less than half a new GPU would cost.

I’m sure I’ll love my custom loop PC once it’s finished, and use it with nothing but pride, but the market is going to have to shift substantially if it will ever see an upgrade after that.

 

[AlienALX]

Sorry man, but going back over the past 20 years? it's just how it is. Everything promised so long as you hand over your cash, then hardly anything if anything at all comes of it.

It's just capitalism and how things are. It's all about money now, with very little to show for it. The amount of stuff I have bought on a promise, then found it literally doing nothing because nothing came along for it?

Microsoft actually used DX12 as a massive selling point. We were promised the moon on a stick. Much higher FPS because the CPU would no longer a be a bottleneck, the ability to run as many GPUs as you could fit in your rig, even if they were not from the same manufacturer and etc. All of the best stuff was promised to us. We got excited, we were actually given f**k all.

But Nvidia and AMD? had a field day out of it. Pushing up their prices on "DX12" GPUs. And exactly what have we had that you simply must spend £1300 on a gaming GPU to have had? (I refer to the Titan Xp). Nothing. Absolutely and utterly nothing.

Now look, I said before somewhere that RT is nice. However, due to my experience with the Gameworks in FO4? I can say that it is rather like going to bed with Cindy Crawford, yet waking up with Michael Crawford. Sure, RT looks amazing in principle but already it is totally f***ed and I will explain why.

Entry level price, for the next few months, is £700 for a 2080 or £1000+ for a Ti. That automatically rules out about 90% of the people I hang with. In fact, let's use this *very forum* as our guide. Let us see how many of the users here go out and spend this daft sum of money on a GPU to run RT.

OK, then, let's see how quickly RT games come out ('cause the last time I checked Metro was due next feb ) and so until then all you will get is a couple of tech demos. Dude, they had RT tech demos on a Commodore chuffing Amiga !!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KcwMZUnIAg

OK so by stuffing the price so very high that means a lot of their potential audience are out priced. How many of us here have VR headsets? yeah, I thought so. And they are not a grand.

So, you then have this tiny little audience (most of whom are posers) and then what happens? you go and you ask a game company to spend countless hours in dev time to cater for these people..... No, just no.

For something to be popular (like them stupid scooters kids have now) they need to be affordable for all.

And £1000 for just a GPU certainly does not fall into that category.