m-ATX vs m-ITX

[Feronix]

Heya guys!

So I've been planning a new build in a 350D with a G1 Sniper M5 board. I absolutely love the idea of small but powerfull machines, but this afternoon I though to myself: It could be even smaller!

So basically I can choose between these 2 builds.

Micro-ATX
- Corsair 350D
- i7 4770k
- G1 Sniper M5
- Patriot Viper 2x8GB 2133MHz
- EVGA GTX 760 ACX
- H100i
- Samsung 840 Pro 128GB
- Caviar Blue 1Tb
- Corsair AX760 + white braided cables.

Mini-ITX
- Bitfenix Prodigy Green
- i7 3770(k)
- Gigabyte Z77n-WiFi
- Patriot Viper 2x8GB 2133MHz
- EVGA GTX 760 ACX
- H100i
- Samsung 840 Pro 128GB
- Caviar Blue 1Tb
- Corsair AX650 + White braided cables.

Pros and cons for m-ATX:
+ Ability to add memory
+ Abilty to go SLI
+ Ability to overclock
+ Better on-board audio
- Bigger (An Arc Midi R2 (ATX) is actually only 2cm taller)
- €144,- more expensive

Pros and cons for Mini-ITX
+ Smaller
+ A BRIGHT GREEN PRODIGY
+ Hackintosh compatible (willing to give this another shot!)
+ WiFi, in case I take it somewhere (will use ethernet at home)
+ €144,- cheaper
- Generic on-board audio, can't run an internal soundcard.
- No overclocking (and previous gen hardware)
- No ability to expand memory
- No ability to go SLI

I'll be using my PC mainly for browsing, music, schoolwork, PhotoSoup and some video editing (hopefully more in the future). I do still play games, but not as many anymore, so I don't need high end GPUs.

Tell me what you guys think, and which build you would choose!

 

[vorticalbox]

Photosoup sounds pixel-ishus ! Lol

As you are going to be editing I would say m-atx mostly for the 4770.

 

[WillSK]

I mean if you don't game as much anymore you're not gonna really need SLI and as you say the m-ITX moves around easier. That said however, editing etc. will benefit from the extra memory you can put in the m-ATX as well as the faster Haswell chip.

 

[WYP]

i think your best off going for the matx build, it will allow more upgrade room for the future.
also you will have a more powerful cpu with the 4770k and overclocking will only extend that lead.

its all down to you though, but i say go for matx build is you can afford it

 

[Feronix]

Thanks for the answers guys, certainly not the answers I was hoping for though

An overclock I would be looking at would be 4GHz. That way it won't get too warm in the summer and I don't need to keep changing it back and forth. After some more research I've found that it IS actually possible to overclock on the z77n WiFi, some people even got it as far as 4.5GHz (although then the Bios would freeze when you try to enter it). Can't adjust the vcore though.


That said, most editing I do is in PhotoSoup and I get away with my 3570k just fine. Would Haswell really be worth it over the IB chip for the occassional video editing (about one 10-minute video every month)?

Only thing then is memory, but what's the chance that we'd actually need more than 16GB anytime soon? By the time we do, 16GB Dimms will probably be out?

I know I sound a bit biased, that's why I asked you guys. Maybe you can convince me, but it's just the ITX form factor, Hackintosh compatibility, the price and the BRIGHT GREEN PRODIGY(!!!) that appeal to me a lot

 

[WillSK]

what's the reason you aren't going for a 4770K itx build? is this not possible? I think my view on this is that if you can afford to get the newer tech then you should as you're future proofing a bit more even if it is just a lil bit

 

[Feronix]

what's the reason you aren't going for a 4770K itx build? is this not possible? I think my view on this is that if you can afford to get the newer tech then you should as you're future proofing a bit more even if it is just a lil bit

No Hackintosh support.

Granted that isn't a necessity, but the school I'm going to uses Macs (Art & Technology) and I cba to buy an actual Apple computer cause that's not in the budget

 

[WillSK]

No Hackintosh support.

Granted that isn't a necessity, but the school I'm going to uses Macs (Art & Technology) and I cba to buy an actual Apple computer cause that's not in the budget

Will it not be supported any time soon? (Sorry I know absolutely nothing about Hackintosh).

 

[WYP]

well if you don't do that much editing and the mitx board can overclock , you will be probably better off with saving money going or ivy.

haswell will have 10-15% higher performance than ivy clock/clock.
its down to you which path you should take!

 

[Feronix]

Will it not be supported any time soon? (Sorry I know absolutely nothing about Hackintosh).

Don't think so. No Macs with Haswell out there except for a few laptops with a modded OS.

well if you don't do that much editing and the mitx board can overclock , you will be probably better off with saving money going or ivy.

haswell will have 10-15% higher performance than ivy clock/clock.
its down to you which path you should take!

Will have to seriously think about it tbh



Any one else that has a good point /opinion?

 

[mrapoc]

My prodigy mini-itx / asus p8z77-i build overclocks to 4.6ghz easily enough

 

[jamesriley94]

Probably should have joined this soon, as I've either got, or built with pretty much everything you've listed there.

I have a Prodigy and a 350D here now.

I'd say go for the 350D. The Prodigy actually isn't that much smaller, and you are basically sacrificing a soundcard, or any upgrade options for potential SLI or anything like that in the future. Also, cabling in the Prodigy is quite a lot harder than it looks. In my opinion, your only option really is a Silverstone Strider, with the short cable kit - and get that custom braided or do it yourself. Running the cables - especially the non-flexible Corsair ones in the Prodigy will be a nightmare.

If you do go for the Prodigy - Don't get the Gigabyte board. Whatever you've seen about overclocking, with no voltage control at all, you're left to just overclock on auto volts, which pretty much anyone will advise you against, and considering you can't even undervolt - you'd be better off with the Asrock H77 ITX board even.

Airflow in the Prodigy isn't the best either for graphics cards. Even with a 230mm fan in the front, the cards don't get enough air to them in my opinion. They're too close to the side panel mesh I think.

Make sure you go for a 2.5inch drive if you do get the Prodigy btw. Makes everything a lot easier if you can remove the HDD cages.


I still have my Prodigy, whilst I got rid of my 350D - and I really regret doing that. The only reason I did it was because I have custom cables coming along for the Prodigy, and because of that it just seems a bit of a waste to get rid of a build while I've still got parts on the way. Prodigys have their place for LANs and stuff, but as normal day to day rig, I wouldn't recommend one.

 

[airdeano]

would there be any thoughts to coming cases?
like the Bitfenix Prodigy M

or FD Arc Mini?

 

[jamesriley94]

I think the 350D is a better case than the Prodigy M. They've tried to hard to keep the proper design of the Prodigy that it's meant messing up the inside - like with the PSU at the front.
As for the FD Arc Mini, difficult to tell from that picture, but it looks just like the old one with better radiator support, and a lot easier to remove HDD/ODD cages.

 

[Feronix]

would there be any thoughts to coming cases?
like the Bitfenix Prodigy M

or FD Arc Mini?

I have considered that but tbh, I've seen that pic before and I have no clue what Bitfenix are trying to do to that chassis, but that's not how I'd like it.

The Arc Mini is nice, and choosing between that and the 350D would be somewhat difficult but seeing as the 350D is the only case of the 2 that's actually on the market right now, I'd probably go for that.

What I also considered is that an Arc Midi is actually only 20mm taller than a 350D, so that kind of puts me off going with the 350D. It's actually kind of big for an m-ATX case.


@James,

Thank you for taking the time to respond
Do you happen to have any side-by-side shots of the two cases?

The Prodigy actually isn't that much smaller, and you are basically sacrificing a soundcard, or any upgrade options for potential SLI or anything like that in the future. Also, cabling in the Prodigy is quite a lot harder than it looks. In my opinion, your only option really is a Silverstone Strider, with the short cable kit - and get that custom braided or do it yourself. Running the cables - especially the non-flexible Corsair ones in the Prodigy will be a nightmare.

I've though about the points and they are really good ones. One thing I came up with was buying an external (USB ) sound card. I know there's little reason to build a very small machine and then run a whole bunch of stuff externally but it has also crossed my mind that I might need a laptop some time in the future and then I could also plug it into there.

Missing the potential to go SLI is also a valid point, but one that I don't worry about at all anymore. I realised that I've lost enough interest in gaming over the last few years that one card will serve me fine. Would prefer to have one high-end card over 2 mid-range ones anyway.

I do worry about the cooling of the card, but seeing as it's only mid range, does it really need that much cooling? I'll most likely be getting the ACX version so that should do good at keeping the temps reasonable? Truth is that components are going to run hot in any m-ITX enclosure because of the space anyway.

I am planning on getting one with a window, or would that be really bad for cooling? I've thought about modding the window like Parvum systems do with their acylic to allow for better cooling. Kind of like this:

Second question I had is about the overclock. Running auto voltage at stock clocks doesn't really hurt it that much, but I can imagine that it would seriously shorten the lifespan when there's a decent overclock on the CPU. All I'm aiming for is 4.0 GHz flat though, would that do much damage?

Might leave it at stock if I have to, but being able to overclock would be nice. I really do want to go the Gigabyte route as they offer Hackintosh compatibility and I want to run a dual boot (Win8 and OS X) for several reasons.

- It's fun and interesting.

- The school I'm going to uses Apple computers and I just think it would be more convenient if I could acces the same sort of systems while working at home.

- I want to be more serious with the music (editing) and such. OS X has some neat software (though that's just a bonus, really).

Only thing I really worry about are the cables. Are the Corsair braided ones really that stiff? I do plan on doing some modding, like maybe making an extra plate to hide cables. Might make an airlfow duct towards the GPU as well if it's needed.

 

[jamesriley94]

@James,

Thank you for taking the time to respond
Do you happen to have any side-by-side shots of the two cases?



I've though about the points and they are really good ones. One thing I came up with was buying an external (USB ) sound card. I know there's little reason to build a very small machine and then run a whole bunch of stuff externally but it has also crossed my mind that I might need a laptop some time in the future and then I could also plug it into there.

Missing the potential to go SLI is also a valid point, but one that I don't worry about at all anymore. I realised that I've lost enough interest in gaming over the last few years that one card will serve me fine. Would prefer to have one high-end card over 2 mid-range ones anyway.

I do worry about the cooling of the card, but seeing as it's only mid range, does it really need that much cooling? I'll most likely be getting the ACX version so that should do good at keeping the temps reasonable? Truth is that components are going to run hot in any m-ITX enclosure because of the space anyway.

I am planning on getting one with a window, or would that be really bad for cooling? I've thought about modding the window like Parvum systems do with their acylic to allow for better cooling. Kind of like this:

Second question I had is about the overclock. Running auto voltage at stock clocks doesn't really hurt it that much, but I can imagine that it would seriously shorten the lifespan when there's a decent overclock on the CPU. All I'm aiming for is 4.0 GHz flat though, would that do much damage?

Might leave it at stock if I have to, but being able to overclock would be nice. I really do want to go the Gigabyte route as they offer Hackintosh compatibility and I want to run a dual boot (Win8 and OS X) for several reasons.

- It's fun and interesting.

- The school I'm going to uses Apple computers and I just think it would be more convenient if I could acces the same sort of systems while working at home.

- I want to be more serious with the music (editing) and such. OS X has some neat software (though that's just a bonus, really).

Only thing I really worry about are the cables. Are the Corsair braided ones really that stiff? I do plan on doing some modding, like maybe making an extra plate to hide cables. Might make an airlfow duct towards the GPU as well if it's needed.

I'll get you some pictures later. My Prodigy doesn't have the top rubber handles on it however.

External soundcards are terrible in comparison to proper ones, so that isn't really a feasible alternative in my eyes.

As for the Gigabyte board - you're basically saying you're willing to get the worst Z77 ITX board just because it supports Hackintosh. I'm sure you can still run it on the other boards?

Running on auto just allows the CPU to determine what voltage to run at, which means it'll massively overstate it if you try and overclock. The fact that you can't even undervolt is a serious turn off for me.

Also, the ITX boards - and also small components are very experience for what they are because they're small. That's even true of MATX to an extent,

 

[Feronix]

I'll get you some pictures later. My Prodigy doesn't have the top rubber handles on it however.

External soundcards are terrible in comparison to proper ones, so that isn't really a feasible alternative in my eyes.

As for the Gigabyte board - you're basically saying you're willing to get the worst Z77 ITX board just because it supports Hackintosh. I'm sure you can still run it on the other boards?

Running on auto just allows the CPU to determine what voltage to run at, which means it'll massively overstate it if you try and overclock. The fact that you can't even undervolt is a serious turn off for me.

Also, the ITX boards - and also small components are very experience for what they are because they're small. That's even true of MATX to an extent,

Thanks for the pictures

Yeah, I can't imagine USB sound cards being as good as PCI-E but hmm... My speakers aren't very high-end either.

I don't know, as long as it doesn't go too overboard with the voltages, I think I could live with it. Hackintosh does not run (or at least not as stable) on boards that aren't Gigabyte (or even on the G1 Sniper M5 cause of the different audio and network chips, for which there are no support (drivers) in OS X.

Hackintoshes are complicated things

I know they're kind of expensive for what they do, but this board is €100,- compared to the €175,- that I would otherwise spend on a G1 Sniper. Both options are really, really tempting though ;_;

Oh well, maybe I'll win a G1 Sniper M5 in the comp and the decisions will be made for me Not counting on that though, but it would make it easier! :lol:

 

[ahpadt]

I wouldn't really use SLI as an argument for m-ATX unless you wouldn't mind building a complete custom water loop for it, which would take away most of your HDD mounting pounts. If you want a rad in the front you'd only be able to squeeze in an SSD in the 5.25" bay, without having to tape it ghetto-style at the back.

While the 350D might be called a "big m-ATX" case, I'd argue that it has the perfect amount of room for any non-insane build. If the 350D was much smaller things would be a lot more cramped for leading all the cables nicely.

 

[jamesriley94]

Thanks for the pictures

Yeah, I can't imagine USB sound cards being as good as PCI-E but hmm... My speakers aren't very high-end either.

I don't know, as long as it doesn't go too overboard with the voltages, I think I could live with it. Hackintosh does not run (or at least not as stable) on boards that aren't Gigabyte (or even on the G1 Sniper M5 cause of the different audio and network chips, for which there are no support (drivers) in OS X.

Hackintoshes are complicated things

I know they're kind of expensive for what they do, but this board is €100,- compared to the €175,- that I would otherwise spend on a G1 Sniper. Both options are really, really tempting though ;_;

Oh well, maybe I'll win a G1 Sniper M5 in the comp and the decisions will be made for me Not counting on that though, but it would make it easier! :lol:

Well I've personally just found the Prodigy too constrictive.
It is a good case, don't get me wrong, but I think unless the only reason you're getting it is so you can throw it in a car and travel to LANs and stuff like that with it, the 350D is just a better option.

I think you'll most likely regret getting the Prodigy if you do choose that, as once you've built it, there isn't really anything else you can do with it.
You can at least fiddle around with things in the 350D.

Anyway, for a bit of a size comparison:

 

[Feronix]

Well, I'm not necessarily taking it to other places but I do move it around a lot inside my home

I'm interested in both build, I really am. Thing is, going Prodigy saves me €140,- and I have a soft spot for small power houses. The Hackintosh compatibility only makes it better for me and I'm just trying to make it work, as I would prefer going m-ITX over going m-ATX (don't ask why).

Guess I'll have to think about the pros and cons again.

m-ITX:
+ Smaller
+ Cheaper
+ Challenge to build
+ Hackintosh
- No/ very little upgrade path
- Sound chip is not as good
- No voltage control

m-ATX
+ Abilty to add RAM
+ Ability to add a GPU
+ Normal overclocking
+ Better on-board sound
- More expensive
- Bigger
- No Hackintosh support

Thanks for the pictures!