I hate builders

[alienware]

OK so get this.

Mum bought this house about three years ago. It's fourteen years old and for the most part (barring a few settling in problems that were never fixed) it's mint. Lovely area, well insulated and designed ETC.

When she moved in it was noted on the report from the dude that checks it all (surveyor IIRC) that there were like three minor problems. One was a blown light bulb downstairs (mum replaced) one was a piece of carpet sticking up by the back door (I fixed when I got home in 08) and one was that the extractor fan in the bathroom was a bit noisy as it span down.

Mum called an electrician and he quoted her £150 to replace all inclusive of labour. Now mum is a pensioner now and that seemed like a lot of money. She had every intention of paying it but just not then. Well, when I got home I cleaned it and fixed the problem with it starting and not going off (was a loose lightbulb that hadnt been screwed in properly) and whilst it still made a shudder as it span down it worked fine.

So, couple of days back nextdoor (typical private estate knobber deluxes) started boasting about how they had this dude who was going to replace their fan under the table for £80 inc. Mum got all excited and said she would bring in the same chap to do hers once he had done nextdoor's.

Well, I got a bit suspicious. Firstly ain't no ahole builder coming in my house messing with the 'trics and not giving an invoice or proof he was here. That's seriously a 'bugger off we are not paying out' from the insurance company. Secondly how hard can it be to replace a sodding FAN?

So, I get up on a ladder and look at the maker's name - Expelair. I go off to their website and find the manual for the fan that has replaced ours (exact same fan prettier grille). Turns out you press in two pins on the side and it comes out of the ceiling leaving a back plate behind it with three female holes that interconnect with the male holes on the fan/grille assembly. It's one piece.

So I remove it and immediately thought that either Columbian kingpins lived in our house before or, some one had been tossing handfuls of talcum powder into the air in some crazy satanistic ceremony. Turns out after hoovering it out and inspecting it that the white powder was actually ground up pieces of fan. Bah, nowhere near as exciting as my initial thought

So, I note down the model number on the back of the fan (the plate held onto the ceiling with four screws.. It's an Expelair DX100W.

I google search it.. £25. Hey, that's not terrible.I mean, it still extracts the urine (£55 to connect two wires) but hey, could be worse.

Then I look up the product we need and note that it comes with the following.

One fan. Bottom and top side. One set of screws. One 4" duct pipe that connects into your flexi pipe. One outer wall peeflap that opens when the fan is on allowing the moisture to exit and then closes when the fan stops keeping the cold air from coming in. Hmm.

Then at the bottom of the manual it says -

Please note. If you already have an existing DX100 installed that needs replacing please look for catalogue item code Expelair XX100. This is a fan only replacement and does not include other accessories

So I google it. £10. TEN POUNDS. So, that means that this tosspot was going to charge my mum £70 to undo four screws, remove two wires, remove and refit the 4" duct pipe and clip it back into the ceiling. SEVENTY POUNDS.

And they moan and p*ss and whine on the TV that Polish people are replacing them. Are they effing surprised? £70 is a good day's earnings. Not ten minutes worth of earnings.

I swear, as the years roll by people want more and more money to do less. It's bloody disgusting !

Any way, by no surprise I have ordered the £10 fan. £15 shipped. And I will bloody replace it too.

 

[D4RK5iDERS]

Yikes, thats harsh

 

[thestepster]

yeah mate i very very rarely go to a tradesman for something only if im not confident i can do it they cost stupid amounts of cash even if there not cowboys like this dude is £30-£40 an hour labour PFFFFT i dont think so!

 

[alienware]

Well most of it is me. TBH I have learnt over the years to earn less, have more time to play and do everything needed doing myself. I mean, I could work all the hours god had sent me but I would rather have worked less hours and instead of using the loads of money from working loads of hours spend time to learn how to do things myself (spraying cars, carpentry, decorating ETC).

But honestly.. How can you quote some one £150 to spend ten minutes replacing a £10 fan? or even £80?

It just makes me feel sick to the stomach thinking my mother could have actually paid that.

 

[Brooksie]

Agree about the Polish thing, and that show on the BBC showing the builders overpriced shoddy work. There are some good builders out there, but most of them are tossers.

 

[thestepster]

yeah its shockin what legit ppl charge these days i do everything myself only thing i didnt do was fit the new kitchen that needed new plumblin and loads of new sockets with the appliances having isolated switches on the walls

 

[lasher]

hmmm will have to up my rate, thought £65 / hour for my services was cheap ... obviously not.

Seriously, if your going to use a reputable EIC NIC time served latest edition sparkie then you'll find theres a flat fee.

IF its some un qualified monkey then theres no excuse no matter what the age of the person is.

 

[D4RK5iDERS]

"its shockin what legit ppl charge these days"

Thats how they make their money though, t'is a bit lazy and annoying

 

[alienware]

hmmm will have to up my rate, thought £65 / hour for my services was cheap ... obviously not.

Seriously, if your going to use a reputable EIC NIC time served latest edition sparkie then you'll find theres a flat fee.

IF its some un qualified monkey then theres no excuse no matter what the age of the person is.

I would have no problem paying that sort of money for skilled work. For example having a rewire or a new fuse box/panel fitted. But replacing a fan? crikey.

Agree about the Polish thing, and that show on the BBC showing the builders overpriced shoddy work. There are some good builders out there, but most of them are tossers.

Absolutely. I mean, I have heard horror stories about polish people doing complete ghetto rigs, but then at the same time Ive seen plenty of 'skilled builders' doing the same or worse.

 

[mayhem]

Legit are expensive for a few reasons ..

1) Insurance

2) call out

3) they give you a guarantee

4) Petrol

5) % towards being actually paid

6) If its a large company then staff need paying

7) electrics in bathroom are dangerous simple as. It does need doing properly and certifying. this costs money.

You solved the problem with a replacement good on you but not all electricians are rip off artists.

Mr polish from blue yonder may get away with just sticking things in and for going all the safety measure but then again they dont give a hoot if you kill your self later on down the line.

You all complain when things are not safe and winge about it being this way. Then measurement are put in place that cost money then you all complain that things are to expensive. Doh .........

Good on you for fixing it but for god sake dont tar all the people with the same brush.

Oh btw i charge ppl £60 to fix there pc flat rate !!!! even if its just to replace a simple cable. And trust me im still cheaper then PC world because at least you know when i been to see your PC you can phone me any time at no extra cost for advise , back up support ect ect ... But you can all so probably fix you pc for nothing .... and my Public liability insurance is not cheap i can guarantee you that.

 

[alienware]

What was more alarming was this -

Well, I got a bit suspicious. Firstly ain't no ahole builder coming in my house messing with the 'trics and not giving an invoice or proof he was here. That's seriously a 'bugger off we are not paying out' from the insurance company. Secondly how hard can it be to replace a sodding FAN?

IE - it was an under the table job. And, it was full price from the sound of it.

And I'm not tarring all builders with the same brush, I'm tarring humanity with the same brush. We are fat greedy pigs - fact.

We're just fatter and greedier and more pig like here in the U.K than most any other place I have ever visited. We don't work long hours, we p*ss and moan all the time about how expensive things are and then go down to Asda or Tesco and pay £10 for a DVD player that some poor git had to make for about 2p a week.

Honestly mate take it from some one who has been around most of the world (near on all of Europe and half way accross the USA) - we are worse, greedier and more expectant here in the UK than in the USA.

Yes in the USA they get cheap petrol and cheaper housing. However, they pay for it in other ways. Food out there is stupid money ($4 for a carton of juice any one?) and when on salary (like any real hardworking person out there) they work about 60 hours a week min. When it comes to working the yanks are animals .

For the first whole year you don't get a single paid day's worth of holiday. Year two you get a week, providing you are full time. Year three two weeks and it caps at three weeks. Some companies won't even give you three weeks ever and most only pay 2/3 of your regular pay. The welfare system out there assures you are broke and penniless (not like here where you get a nice flat and can afford to drive and smoke like a lot of the spongers we have who make it a life choice) and, you HAVE to work for your welfare picking up litter or sweeping the roads. If you don't? they will starve you to death.

There's no NHS ETC. And that's in one of, if not the, richest countries on earth.

If you told for example a Mexican that you were charging £70 an hour to wire up a ceiling fan they would probably swoon in disbelief.

 

[mayhem]

Oh trust me UK is expensive to live and yes there are lazy gits out there. All so yep there a money grabbing penny pinching people to but not every one is like this.

Im starting to realise really how expensive it is living here in the Uk and running a business because not only do i get ripped off by the bank to take money out or do any thing with money but the government all so rip every penny out of me as does every other bugger. But i have to suck it all up while still trying to maintain the business.

Ive been all over the world my self, My father was in the army and we moved all over the place then i joined and again moved all over the place so i have been nearly every were and seen a lot in my small life time (except USA never been there). And yes ppl work for peanuts and have to fight to survive but this is life and down to each individual governments.

We are lucky here in the UK we have the NHS and i love the NHS if it wasn't for them i would have been dead. How ever 40 hours a week for a normal job isnt that bad and its fair i know people that work a lot more than 40 hrs a week. Take tom on here for instance you think he does 40 hrs a week. I bet he does way over that as this place isnt just a Job but its a living and a hobbie as well.

We cannot sit here and compaire our country to others and visa versia the world doest work that way. One thing you can do at least in this county and that is you can sit in you home with out the worry of some 10 year old kid coming in your home and blowing you head off with a hand gun !!!! ( i might live to eat those words one day though) ...

Mate its life . No point complain about it really as there isn't much you can do except what you did and that is learn to do these things your self. This is why the internet is brill .. because info is so dammed easy to get hold off and you can easily become self surfactant.

As for cowboy builder's charging high prices .. hmm yeh i have met a few but there all so there are Cowboy PC technicians, Cowboy car mechanics ect ect (my best atm is some Cowboy web site developer who just tried having my life..)

I even just seen my car go for crushing this week because i was 2 weeks late with the car tax and they wanted £380 + £180 + £100 so that i could get it released to be taxed again. So i told them to crush it cos i didn't have the money there and then. My 9 year old citron picaso is now a tin can some ware. (!hit happens) ....

 

[lasher]

Mayhem - how much liability are you insured for?? Will not cost anymore than £100 / year for £1million liability for a sole principal trader. More if your covering employees. I have a hand in a steel fabrications business and believe me its a risky job and more importantly use cutting gear - so gasses / heat etc...

Get a better quote if your paying more than £100 / year matey.

 

[mayhem]

Mayhem - how much liability are you insured for?? Will not cost anymore than £100 / year for £1million liability for a sole principal trader. More if your covering employees. I have a hand in a steel fabrications business and believe me its a risky job and more importantly use cutting gear - so gasses / heat etc...

Get a better quote if your paying more than £100 / year matey.

I pay quite a bit more

1) cos im working with chemicals

2) Cos i sell chemicals

3) Working in peoples homes

there are quite a few other factors involved. but its 10x what you pay any how.

 

[chudley]

This is a good rant thread

I think the dodgy electrician was a rip off, but also know that to get qualified "real certified electricians" have to pay a bit of money for training plus of "2000 so in a way you are repaying them for their training and certification in case something goes wrong.

End of the day, if you have a mate who is trained up, get him to do the work, mates rates are so much better

and its a good excuse to buy him a pint, of course you can't let him drink it by himself

 

[alienware]

Well the fan is now done. Went a little like this -

Last night they called us and said that the model I ordered (XX100 two wire for £9) was not in stock. So, they said I can have the XX100T for the same price (usually about £13). Difference is the T has three wires. A live, a ground and another permanent live that runs into the timer part. Basically when you connect it you do the following.

Light switch live to +

Light switch neg to -

Perm switched live (on a seperate killswitch) to T.

You then set a potentiometer which then runs the fan on for the time you set it at.

However, even though on Expelair's website it shows that you can connect it to two wires when it arrived there was a bloody adenum in the manual telling you you HAVE to connect it to three wires.

Cue me pooing a bit but then realising there was a second 'light switch' about 2" from the ceiling outside the door and then realising there were indeed three wires put into the old fan housing.

After studying the old one I realised the model number DX100WT must have meant DX100 'with timer' However, behind the potentiometer on that one there was a black fried resistor and thus the fan did not run on. I would imagine a lot of DX100WT models did that (burnt) and still functioned on (dangerous) and so they had to change the circuit forcing it to see all three wires, or, if something burnt not function at all.

It's up now. I forgot to install the rubber gasket from the old fan on so had to remove it and redo it, but it's working like a champ.

Good thing they sent me that one or else I would have been a bit buggered

 

[mayhem]

Hehe lucky because then you mum would be having a go for getting it wrong and calling you a cow boy builder pmsl.

 

[alienware]

Good thing I have lots of electronics experience really. Makes it a lot easier being able to understand schems and circuit diagrams.

 

[Jamzieth]

We got done over by a "skilled" builder. Charged us a few thousand for a garage conversion (into a new room as garage is attached to the house).

We thought that reasonable so we said go ahead. Then the price kept creaping up very slowly with all the little bits he required but didn't think of at the time.

At this point we'd already paid the deposit so we thought well we've lost money we may as well let him continue.

I was however a little sceptic of the guy to say the least. The main reason for this was his reason for asking for more and more money was that the tax men wanted it there and then.

So i put on my detectives hat and got my mum (who is an accountant) to phone the required officals based on the tax code he had given us.

Guess what the number was a fake and the guy wasn't even VAT registered so the "tax" collecters he had to pay were the holiday companie he was booking with.

The second thing we checked were his credentials. On his letter head he said he was registered with the guild of skilled traders (or something similar to that i can't fully remember this was a few years ago) and had X number of qualifications. We contacted the guild of skilled traders and well basicly he was all lies. No skills no nothing just a clever (or not so in this case) D.I.Y man.

He came back from his holidays and we fired him (basicly he'd finished and we refused to pay him the other half of the money).

His cheak was that he said he would take us to court and sue us. This coming from the man that has now left our house legally unselable because of D.I.Y work.

Is this fair?

Basicly we've not paid him and haven't heard anything from him. But we still live with the damage.