How will the UK's Brexit Referendum affect video game developers?

[barnsley]

I don't think she is one out of the multi millions fella I am just stating that they do teach computing in Schools these days

When I went to school "I left in 1984" all we had was one Sinclair ZX80 and this big Canon PC to learn BASIC and that was it for 600 pupils

I left in 2013.

They had only just started teaching computing at A level. until then there was no computing being taught unless you went to private schools. Its been like that for most of the 90s too I believe. Hence the drought we have. it should improve but holy crap, did it take some time.

 

[RobM]

I have always felt that everyone should do at least a basic computing course.
When I worked on an IT help desk you wouldnt believe the amount of pc users that just do not have a clue and I am talking 45 minutes to explain how to create a desktop shortcut lol

 

[KTM_RULZ]

A few points, in the 1990s our games development industry was almost as big as Japan and we had much less immigration than compared with today. Most of the people coming from the EU have little or no skills working in mainly unskilled jobs with poor english.

Mate there are headhunters out there looking for nurses in all European counties to man your hospitals. But there are plenty coders?

 

[Warchild]

Well I am voting in.

But I am also selling stocks I have as our company investor has reported that they will take a nose dive if UK leave EU. Best to be safe than lose £8000. I know its not that much to some but its a lot to lose for me.

Personally I don't see how leaving EU will help with immigration, especially with the French happily allowing many to flow through Calais knowing that France isn't the last stop. And I have no clue why you are saying most people coming from the EU have little or no skills. Without turning this into a political debate, that comment is horribly false. There are many Swedes flocking to London for example with engineering degrees and these guys are worried about the vote out also.

I would say the masses of Polish who come to UK that are skilled electricians, plumbers, etc count as useful isn't it? I wouldn't class those as unskilled jobs.

Would worries me about the stupidity of the British right now, is that there are some voting out because it sounds "cool". Saw this on VG.no a few days ago when a Norwegian reporter was stopping some of the public in London. And before anyone jumps at me, I am British too

 

[Greenback]

Well I am voting in.

But I am also selling stocks I have as our company investor has reported that they will take a nose dive if UK leave EU. Best to be safe than lose £8000. I know its not that much to some but its a lot to lose for me.

Personally I don't see how leaving EU will help with immigration, especially with the French happily allowing many to flow through Calais knowing that France isn't the last stop. And I have no clue why you are saying most people coming from the EU have little or no skills. Without turning this into a political debate, that comment is horribly false. There are many Swedes flocking to London for example with engineering degrees and these guys are worried about the vote out also.

I would say the masses of Polish who come to UK that are skilled electricians, plumbers, etc count as useful isn't it? I wouldn't class those as unskilled jobs.

Would worries me about the stupidity of the British right now, is that there are some voting out because it sounds "cool". Saw this on VG.no a few days ago when a Norwegian reporter was stopping some of the public in London. And before anyone jumps at me, I am British too

It may sound good but if you worked in these jobs you'd know it wasn't, My brothers both work as painter/decorators and when the polish came over here their wages went from £100 a day down to £60, the person they were working for was told if he wanted a contracted he had bid on he would need to reduce the bid by £60,000, there were a lot of English people in these lines of work suddenly finding they either needed to take a big pay cut or be out of work

 

[Warchild]

It may sound good but if you worked in these jobs you'd know it wasn't, My brothers both work as painter/decorators and when the polish came over here their wages went from £100 a day down to £60, the person they were working for was told if he wanted a contracted he had bid on he would need to reduce the bid by £60,000, there were a lot of English people in these lines of work suddenly finding they either needed to take a big pay cut or be out of work

That is a fair point.

But how is that any different to another country? Norway have the same problem, Polish are here doing the same and the only difference is that they need a VISA to be here. Once the VISA is in place, same thing will happen.

 

[Greenback]

That is a fair point.

But how is that any different to another country? Norway have the same problem, Polish are here doing the same and the only difference is that they need a VISA to be here. Once the VISA is in place, same thing will happen.

Well when they apply for a visa under wanting to work in a particular line of work, if we have enough of our own workers doing it we can say no, as it stands right now they can just come here. Or I remember a pensioner came from a European country their pension was £50 a week taxpayers had to make up the difference to match what she would of got as a UK pensioner.

The Eu was a good idea when it was first setup just as a free trade agreement, but slowly and surely it has gained more and more power.

 

[Warchild]

Well when they apply for a visa under wanting to work in a particular line of work, if we have enough of our own workers doing it we can say no, as it stands right now they can just come here. Or I remember a pensioner came from a European country their pension was £50 a week taxpayers had to make up the difference to match what she would of got as a UK pensioner.

The Eu was a good idea when it was first setup just as a free trade agreement, but slowly and surely it has gained more and more power.

Actually I am not sure if the UK can say no to the VISA. If the application is placed and the company that the applicant is going to work for wants him in, then he will be allowed. I think this is why an Australian points system was mentioned, to try and combat this. But as it stands now, it can't really be stopped. Take non EU applicants for example, they are still pouring in anyway (many being skilled and educated workers.)

 

[SPS]

Actually I am not sure if the UK can say no to the VISA. If the application is placed and the company that the applicant is going to work for wants him in, then he will be allowed. I think this is why an Australian points system was mentioned, to try and combat this. But as it stands now, it can't really be stopped. Take non EU applicants for example, they are still pouring in anyway (many being skilled and educated workers.)

Exactly, for skilled workers they wouldn't deny it.

 

[SeekaX]

It may sound good but if you worked in these jobs you'd know it wasn't, My brothers both work as painter/decorators and when the polish came over here their wages went from £100 a day down to £60, the person they were working for was told if he wanted a contracted he had bid on he would need to reduce the bid by £60,000, there were a lot of English people in these lines of work suddenly finding they either needed to take a big pay cut or be out of work

To be honest i don't see a problem with this, that's just how competition works, supply and demand. If someone is willing to do the same job for less money he'll get the job, if you want to be paid more you have to offer something the customer values that other person can't offer. That concept applies with immigrants and without, the immigrants might just be willing to push competition a bit further, just a matter of time until they start valuing their work more as well and start demanding more money.

 

[Greenback]

When there are already workers available to do the work in this country there would be no need for a company to look outside for workers, now I'm not stupid to think the system would not be or already is abused to get uncle bob in to the country or cheaper workers.
I don't believe the EU is finished in it's taking of powers and eventually there will only be the EU and those in country governments will be like state governors in the states

 

[SeekaX]

When there are already workers available to do the work in this country there would be no need for a company to look outside for workers, now I'm not stupid to think the system would not be or already is abused to get uncle bob in to the country or cheaper workers.
I don't believe the EU is finished in it's taking of powers and eventually there will only be the EU and those in country governments will be like state governors in the states

It's a company's right to look for the workers who offer the most benefits, disallowing them to do that is just cutting out competition you don't want to deal with.
Even if the EU takes over more powers, what's wrong with that? Worked quite well for the US, a united Europe is far stronger than a bunch of separated states.

 

[SPS]

When there are already workers available to do the work in this country there would be no need for a company to look outside for workers, now I'm not stupid to think the system would not be or already is abused to get uncle bob in to the country or cheaper workers.
I don't believe the EU is finished in it's taking of powers and eventually there will only be the EU and those in country governments will be like state governors in the states

If benefits weren't so high we'd have British people undercutting existing companies just to make some money.

 

[Greenback]

To be honest i don't see a problem with this, that's just how competition works, supply and demand. If someone is willing to do the same job for less money he'll get the job, if you want to be paid more you have to offer something the customer values that other person can't offer. That concept applies with immigrants and without, the immigrants might just be willing to push competition a bit further, just a matter of time until they start valuing their work more as well and start demanding more money.

When you have 5 polish blokes living in a 1 bedroom flat it sort of cuts down on what they need to earn so cuts out the chance of equal competition, also with out the free movement the pool of workers is limited to what's in the country and thus limits how low the wages can go, also if the going rate for a particular trade is x amount offering way below that would mean you have no workers.

From a friend I was told that some of the polish workers were working under 2 different names thus for 6 months they worked as 1 person and 6 months as another allowing them to be able to claim any tax they had paid in, this came from someone who worked in the benefits office

If benefits weren't so high we'd have British people undercutting existing companies just to make some money.

If they weren't so high we wouldn't have people wating to come here in the first place

 

[shambles1980]

shouldnt boil it down to money.
in an ideal world one centrall europe with all taxes pooled and distributed evenly would work great.
but it dont really work now due to the balance of payments being so far off..

any way thats just the money part of it.
The only thing i believe people should worry about is the rights of people..
If people want or dont want something they should be allowed to chose democratically.
right now with how it is run then people cannot really decide at all. its a veritable centralized dictatorship with heads of countrys deciding matters that effect the people.

People dont get to vote who is in charge, and if they did it would just turn in to the eurovision song contest with countrys that dont like eachother voting against eachother regarless of the policies..

Obviously the only way this system could ever work properly is under dictatorship. If you want every one to help eachother then you have to make them do it.
But thats not democracy. and its an issue.

 

[SeekaX]

When you have 5 polish blokes living in a 1 bedroom flat it sort of cuts down on what they need to earn so cuts out the chance of equal competition, also with out the free movement the pool of workers is limited to what's in the country and thus limits how low the wages can go, also if the going rate for a particular trade is x amount offering way below that would mean you have no workers.

Let's see how long they are willing to live with 5 people in a 1 bedroom flat, from what i've heard poles are human beings as well. And even if they are willing to do that, it's not illegal to do so. Wages should be determined by supply and demand, not by just blocking out whoever is willing to work for less than you.
We have plenty of poles, russians and turks in germany, far more than the UK has and still our average income is higher than yours. Sure when they first arrived they drove the income down a little since they were used to working for less, but nowadays they have the same standards as any other german.

From a friend I was told that some of the polish workers were working under 2 different names thus for 6 months they worked as 1 person and 6 months as another allowing them to be able to claim any tax they had paid in, this came from someone who worked in the benefits office

Good thing that british people would never do anything illegal like tax fraud. That's exclusively the immigrants.

 

[SPS]

Good thing that british people would never do anything illegal like tax fraud. That's exclusively the immigrants.

:lol:

 

[Greenback]

Let's see how long they are willing to live with 5 people in a 1 bedroom flat, from what i've heard poles are human beings as well. And even if they are willing to do that, it's not illegal to do so. Wages should be determined by supply and demand, not by just blocking out whoever is willing to work for less than you.
We have plenty of poles, russians and turks in germany, far more than the UK has and still our average income is higher than yours. Sure when they first arrived they drove the income down a little since they were used to working for less, but nowadays they have the same standards as any other german.

Good thing that british people would never do anything illegal like tax fraud. That's exclusively the immigrants.

When the wages drop to a point that the average family man can't afford to do the job without needing the government to top the wages up. maybe it needs some control, or maybe the British should just learn to hate themselves and become third class citizens in their own country.

I never said that a British person doesn't commit fraud, but it's a bit hard for the average worker to do so.


But it's all void because if we vote to leave the government will just do an Ireland and call for another vote or just ignore it

 

[SeekaX]

When the wages drop to a point that the average family man can't afford to do the job without needing the government to top the wages up. maybe it needs some control, or maybe the British should just learn to hate themselves and become third class citizens in their own country.

Or maybe you should take a look at how your country is stuck in the 20th century and needs some drastic changes. Before blaming others always look at yourself first. If a student has to take on 40 grand in debt just to get a bachelor's degree you can't be surprised when people's training and education is so bad they get outclassed by polish immigrants.
Nobody said anything about selfhatred. Like i said, i'm german, plenty of immigrants in this country and still we are all doing just fine, so it can hardly be polish blokes ruining your average family man's life.

I never said that a British person doesn't commit fraud, but it's a bit hard for the average worker to do so.

If a polish immigrant who does plumbing for a living can commit tax fraud so can the average worker. As if you've never heard of someone doing black labour before.

 

[SuB]

A few points, in the 1990s our games development industry was almost as big as Japan and we had much less immigration than compared with today. Most of the people coming from the EU have little or no skills working in mainly unskilled jobs with poor english.

As someone IN the gaming industry the 'unskilled' thing you've just said simply isn't true. I was gonna go into a big tyraid but frankly, cba..
We have loads of amazing people here from the EU and we simply wouldn't be the same without their talent.