High End water cooling advice

[mihapiha]

Hey guys.

I intend on building myself a new computer, which ought to be adjustable to coming hardware. The idea is that the case and cooling would remain somewhat the same and the hardware would change over time.

First and foremost: I am an extreme enthusiast when it comes to computer hardware, so I will be replacing and switching parts every couple of months.

I'm still unsure which way to go, but I am definitely looking at a powerful water cooled setup. It's been nearly a year since I build myself a PC with a water cooling of this magnitude and therefore I would love to hear some suggestions in terms of radiator and pump-configurations. The last system I had (Link) wasn't really that good in terms of cooling and I'd like to avoid the mistakes I made with it (dust problems due to negative pressure and flow problems).

Base for the system probably will be the CaseLabs Merlin ST10 Case even though I'll have to pay about $160 shipping to Austria (according to CaseLabs) and at least 20% VAT on top of that. If there are any customs fees into Austria I don't know. Maybe someone here knows...

I plan on having a minimum of 3 waterblocks (CPU + 2 GPUs) and probably in time over 5 as the motherboard, memory (if the looks are right) and maybe a third GPU might join the loop in time.

Theme will be (old) black&blue theme again. Black hardware, case, PCBs, and cables, and blue LEDs (if they are subtle otherwise white) and blue coolant in clear tubing.

At minimum I indent to get two 120.4 (or 480) monsta (80mm thick) radiators into that case. Fans I thought would be Corsair SP120 quiet editions (so I could check if the blue rings look good or if it's too much) in push/pull on both radiators.

For the PSU I was thinking of the Corsair AX1200i with the custom breaded cables (in black). The front panel 480 radiator with push/pull fans ought to cover about 120 mm from the front. So here is my questions: I'm not sure whether a dual D5-Pump top of Bitspower combination will fit in between the front panel and the Corsair AX1200i. And if it does fit, do I really need the dual D5 Pump solution.

I wanted to push on a stronger pump-solution, because the old computer I had a flow problem. But I'm not sure how much the D5 can handle, and when it is maxed out. If I put another 360 radiator in there and a couple more waterblocks, should I go for the dual-pump solution just in case?

Third radiator would fit like this:

And how much will the two monsta 480 radiators be able to cool? I don't intend to use more powerful fans as it ought to be a very quiet system.


What do you guys recommend? Should I start with 3 radiators (2x 480s + 1x 360)? And if I do, would I need the dual D5 pump solution? I prefer to get that if it would fit actually. Better to do overkill on the pumps than having the flow issues I had before...

As the bits and pieces will come together, I definitely will make a build log...

 

[jamesriley94]

First of all - hardware is g therefore produces less heat. Therefore going for a futuristic approach of things getting hotter in the future is a little off.

Then, lets say you have 2 680s, and a 3930k - for example. You'd actually be able to run those with acceptable temps off a single 480 monsta and get reasonable temps. Not saying you shouldn't add the second rad in the front as well for overhead, and possibly bringing temps down marginally... But the one in the roof (or on the roof) then seems pointless and unsightly.

Your 480 monsta and the 360 will be sufficient for anything you throw at it really.

Also, anything over 2 GPUs can lead to a negative performance in gaming. So three-way-SLI doesn't actually have much point to it. Although as you say you're an enthusiast, this probably won't change your mind.


As for the pumps -

Rads aren't actually restrictive at all really. You'd get away with SLI, CPU and Motherboard blocks with a single D5. Could probably even stretch to triple-SLI on a single D5 if you wanted... But, if you say you've had issues in the past, as well as the cost this build will incur, you may as well spend the extra money and get a second D5. 2 will easily be sufficient for this tbh.

 

[mihapiha]

To tell you the truth: I don't intend on building 3-way SLI for gaming. I know it's stupid on so many levels but I just think it looks so cool. I take more joy from from looking at the rig than using it. I know it's weird but that's just the way it is. I use my MacBook pretty much for everything.

So the same thing goes for the memory water blocks. If I can make it look great, then in my mind is worth the thrill.

I wonder if you've noticed that I intend on putting Corsair SP120 quiet edition fans on the radiators. I want the system to be as quiet as possible...

I wish to overclock the CPU to a decent amount, (if I'm lucky I might get my hands on a pretested CPU) as it makes quite a difference with that many GPUs in there. I have a hard time believing that the 480 would handle two cards and the 3930k.

I tested my old 55mm thick 360 radiator with push/pull fans back then with two EVGA GTX480 SC cards (stock) and it just barely could handle it. I remember the water temperature was hitting 42ºC, and to my knowledge 40ºC means you need more radiators. Somehow it actually would surprise me if a Titan would be cooler. Or a 680 for that matter.

Hence I worry in terms of cooling performance. I remember I had also problems with the 55mm thick 360 rad cooling a i7-980X @ 4.4 GHz (due to the 1.43V). By adding the WaterCool MORA3 into that loop (with the 4 GPUs installed) I could cool 4.4 GHz no worries (10ºC less on the cores). So the MORA3 made a big big difference.

You don't happen to know whether the dual D5 top will fit in between a front radiator and AX 1200i?

 

[alpenwasser]

Base for the system probably will be the CaseLabs Merlin ST10 Case even though I'll have to pay about $160 shipping to Austria (according to CaseLabs) and at least 20% VAT on top of that. If there are any customs fees into Austria I don't know. Maybe someone here knows...

I know Switzerland is not in the EU, but I only had to pay VAT. You should actually
be able to find this out from your customs office I would think (we can look this up in
the internet, though I'm not sure if you have anything similar).

As for the case itself, I can only sing praises for my SMH10 :rock:

At minimum I indent to get two 120.4 (or 480) monsta (80mm thick) radiators into that case. Fans I thought would be Corsair SP120 quiet editions (so I could check if the blue rings look good or if it's too much) in push/pull on both radiators.

To be honest, I have the SP120 quiet, and they are not all that quiet in my opinion.
It looks like you have the money, so if you're not too attached to the looks of the
SP120's, I suggest maybe buying a few 120 sample fans and trying them out.
Bitfenix Spectre Pro (I have, no motor or bearing noises when undervolted),
Noiseblocker eLoops or their other model range and the Noctua NF-F12 (yes, I
know, the colour :lol: ) would probably be on my trial list.

But there are quite a few decent 120 options, so I recommend having a look around.

And how much will the two monsta 480 radiators be able to cool? I don't intend to use more powerful fans as it ought to be a very quiet system.

Just run the Monsta's in push/pull, and they should be able to cool most things
you can throw at them. Since I don't really like the extended roof of the Caselabs
cases (just looks funny imho), may I suggest the vertical PSU mounting kit?
This would allow you to run two 480's without having to resort to the extended roof,
which should still be plenty of cooling power. Then again, I'm about to run two 560's
with a 480 (although only 45 mm thick), so I can't really blame you for wanting to
go for overkill

As for the pumps, I will be running 2 x D5's, but since I haven't done any tests yet
I can't really say how much one pump can actually handle. James is right though,
radiators aren't very restrictive.

As the bits and pieces will come together, I definitely will make a build log...

You fucking better, this much porn is not allowed to exist without showing it off! :lol:

EDIT, because you're a Ninja :lol:

I wonder if you've noticed that I intend on putting Corsair SP120 quiet edition fans on the radiators. I want the system to be as quiet as possible...

See above, I really don't think they're very quiet. If you really want to go with them,
I recommend ordering one to try it out first.

I wish to overclock the CPU to a decent amount, (if I'm lucky I might get my hands on a pretested CPU) as it makes quite a difference with that many GPUs in there. I have a hard time believing that the 480 would handle two cards and the 3930k.

One Monsta 480 for that is a bit on the lower side imho. But be aware that the Monsta
rads only really start to show their potential when they have some decent pressure
applied, so you might actually be better off with thinner radiators for very low speed fans.
I seriously recommend using some Google-Fu for this before buying.

I remember the water temperature was hitting 42ºC, and to my knowledge 40ºC means you need more radiators.

Whoever said that? You need more radiators when your system is no longer stable,
any other threshold is purely arbitrary and only relevant for your personal preferences.

The only situation where that does not necessarily apply is when you have HDD's in
your loop (something like an Aquadrive). According to a mass study of HDD failure
rates by Google (don't have the link anymore, I'll see if I can find it), ideal HDD temp
is between 40 C and 44 C, below and above that failure rates start to rise IIRC.

Hence I worry in terms of cooling performance. I remember I had also problems with the 55mm thick 360 rad cooling a i7-980X @ 4.4 GHz (due to the 1.43V).

Yes, my 60 mm 360 rad (Alphacool UT60) was just about enough to handle my 2600k
@ ~ 1.4 V, so this does not surprise me.

 

[jamesriley94]

In TTL's 900D video, he's running a 2011 CPU (can't remember which) with a Titan, with a 360mm 60mm thick rad.

With an 480, 80mm thick, I'd have thought it would handle it - and if not, it really wouldn't be far off at all.

Anyway, it doesn't really matter. What I'm saying is the 480 and 360 alone would easily be sufficient. You honestly won't need anymore than that.

To your point on GTX480s... They were seriously hot cards. Current generation 680s are definitely far cooler. The titan I'm sure would be too, although I've not really looked at it properly yet.

I don't know the answer to the D5 question - you'll have to ask someone who owns the case. If it doesn't, you have plenty of other places to put it in that case. i wouldn't let that play on your mind.

 

[alpenwasser]

To your point on GTX480s... They were seriously hot cards. Current generation 680s are definitely far cooler. The titan I'm sure would be too, although I've not really looked at it properly yet.

Unfortunately I haven't been able to fire up my Titan yet, but the 480's had 250 W TDP for
529 mm^2 die size, whereas the Titan has 250 W TDP and 561 mm^2 die size (according
to Wikipedia). With a larger die you get better heat dissipation, but since these two are
quite close one would not necessarily expect the Titan to do much cooler. However, the Titan
has a much superior stock cooler, which makes it a lot less noisy than a stock 480, which
is probably why people aren't bitching about this.

The 680 on the other hand only has 195 W TDP (although its die is comparably small at
294 mm^2). All of these numbers are @ stock, naturally.

I'm aware though that die size and TDP are not the be-all-end-all predictors for temperatures,
I was just curious about this and decided to look it up.

 

[mihapiha]

I am considering going with the LittleDevil V8 or the Corsair 900D alternatively... Not sure yet. There are things I dislike about both cases though

it will take me a little more time to fully answer the rest as I want to research on the suggestions more, before I reply...

 

[alpenwasser]

I am considering going with the LittleDevil V8 or the Corsair 900D alternatively... Not sure yet. There are things I dislike about both cases though

I actually contemplated going with the V8 instead of the SMH10. But in the end, I just wanted
560 radiator capability, plus the build quality of the Caselabs is really, really good.
(Not to say that the V8 has bad build quality, I've never seen one in person).

Also, I just prefer the overall looks of the SMH10 (the V8 is just too high and narrow for
my tastes, the SMH10's proportions are much more to my liking).

it will take me a little more time to fully answer the rest as I want to research on the suggestions more, before I reply...

Good idea imho. Research is key with these sorts of projects.

 

[mihapiha]

Honestly, the only think which annoys me about the CaseLabs is the oddness of having it shipped overseas. I'd also have to special-order some (UN)Designs mounts to fit the pump-reservoir thing.

I feels this unnecessarily pushes my budget quite too far. The LD and 900D combinations would be so much cheaper. The LD I dislike due to negative pressure issues which I can expect and dust-filter fitting issues. And if I get the LD I might as well go for the SS cooling while I'm at it.

The 900D's problem is the lack of a plate between the bottom and top compartments. I have no idea how to mount a pump-reservoir solution on there, if I choose to go for the dual D5 setup, and I want to avoid drive-bay pumps. Drive bay pump-solutions are just far too noisy for my taste.

I figure I'd get into the 900D two 480 (60mm thick) radiators and one 240 (60mm thick). I'm not sure if it's wise, but I could potentially also see me fitting two 480 monsta (80mm thick) radiators with push- fans in there and instead of the 240 just mount the Pump-Reservoir thing down there. Might be better if I think about it. I also prefer to let the right bottom compartment side-panel blanked out to increase the positive air pressure in the case...

That would be a solution, but I think, that if I do that I'd have to switch the placement of the PSU to the left side in order to give the reservoir the room it will need. This would create a cable mess...

The think is, that if I go with LD or the 900D I wouldn't need to purchase abroad. A definite advantage. I have to look into the 900D, maybe there is a way of fitting everything in that case. But it's so heavy! That sucks because it's hard to lift that case once everything is installed. I remember the 800D being heavy as hell with the LC installed...

 

[alpenwasser]

You could always fashion a custom plate to go between the top and bottom compartments in the
900D. It shouldn''t be extremely complex to do and get right.

 

[mihapiha]

To be honest, I have the SP120 quiet, and they are not all that quiet in my opinion. It looks like you have the money, so if you're not too attached to the looks of the SP120's, I suggest maybe buying a few 120 sample fans and trying them out. Bitfenix Spectre Pro (I have, no motor or bearing noises when undervolted), Noiseblocker eLoops or their other model range and the Noctua NF-F12 (yes, I know, the colour :lol: ) would probably be on my trial list.

But there are quite a few decent 120 options, so I recommend having a look around.

I've had the SP120s so I I agree that they can be noisy. But the noise level is still quite low if the airflow isn't full with dust or something. So it's not too bad. I did use the Noiseblocker NB-BlackSilentPRO PL-2 which are about even in performance and maybe even a little less noise. But I would like to stick to certain brands to make the theme of the build look nice. And Corsair PSU, SSDs and Memory are coming for sure. Why not fans?

The Noctua are no option due to the color. They are far too ugly...

Just run the Monsta's in push/pull, and they should be able to cool most things you can throw at them. Since I don't really like the extended roof of the Caselabs cases (just looks funny imho), may I suggest the vertical PSU mounting kit? This would allow you to run two 480's without having to resort to the extended roof, which should still be plenty of cooling power. Then again, I'm about to run two 560's with a 480 (although only 45 mm thick), so I can't really blame you for wanting to go for overkill

As for the pumps, I will be running 2 x D5's, but since I haven't done any tests yet I can't really say how much one pump can actually handle. James is right though,radiators aren't very restrictive.

The PSU mounting kit is an ugly option in my opinion as it will make the cable management look just catastrophic. And it looks out of place anyways. I cannot see how I could possibly use that thing to make the build look nice and neat.

The thin radiators (in my case 60 mm) might be an option for the Corsair 900D or Little Devil case. If I go with the CaseLabs case I'm not too worried about airflow as I will be able to mount push-pull no problem. For thicker radiators that is certainly a nice option. Not to mention it looks better...

The dual D5-pump-solution seems more and more likely. EK has a very nice setup too, which I looked up on their homepage. I really like the looks of it and I especially like the fact that I can choose what size reservoir I want to put on it. I definitely think I will go this way now, and I'll skip the Bitspower solutions... The EK thing fit's in a 5.25" drive bay too. so I figure it's much smaller...

Whoever said that? You need more radiators when your system is no longer stable, any other threshold is purely arbitrary and only relevant for your personal preferences.

The only situation where that does not necessarily apply is when you have HDD's in your loop (something like an Aquadrive). According to a mass study of HDD failure rates by Google (don't have the link anymore, I'll see if I can find it), ideal HDD temp is between 40 C and 44 C, below and above that failure rates start to rise IIRC.

The 40ºC water temperature are just a value to keep in mind. I first heard of it as a guideline like 10 years ago when I started building my first water cooled systems. It is basically just an indicator. As you may know, the HDD and GPU memory are two different things. 40ºC on the water is kinda much for any decent water cooled loop. Especially if your running multiple components on it. The HDD definitely is nothing to worry about, however if I have LC and I see GPU temps of 60ºC and more, I worry. Not because of the GPU, but because of the GPUs memory and mosfet. At 60ºC also most pumps are in danger of dying...

I definitely would like to have much cooler temperatures than that. Preferably that the water temperature is in the 33ºC neighborhood when under full load. Or 10 - 15ºC higher than room temperature; Just to be safe. I don't want to spend 2000 Euro on a water cooling and then worry about the temperatures really. Doesn't make much sense in my opinion.

Unfortunately I haven't been able to fire up my Titan yet, but the 480's had 250 W TDP for 529 mm^2 die size, whereas the Titan has 250 W TDP and 561 mm^2 die size (according
to Wikipedia). With a larger die you get better heat dissipation, but since these two are quite close one would not necessarily expect the Titan to do much cooler. However, the Titan has a much superior stock cooler, which makes it a lot less noisy than a stock 480, which is probably why people aren't bitching about this.

The 680 on the other hand only has 195 W TDP (although its die is comparably small at 294 mm^2). All of these numbers are @ stock, naturally.

I'm aware though that die size and TDP are not the be-all-end-all predictors for temperatures, I was just curious about this and decided to look it up.

Definitely important that you looked that up for me. It is really helpful. Basically the idea was to get started with the build sometime in the summer, and then have the LC set up for a new Intel-Socket. Maybe (just for the time being) I'd get myself a Z77+3770k type deal, just to test it. But really it was meant for the next big thing (Ivy-Bridge E) + two or more cards. I've had great experiences with PowerColor LCS cards; Maybe I'll get myself some of those with the 8970 coming out.

I definitely won't rush and get a 2011 socket. I do not see the point in it really. The Rampage IV Extreme has been out for far too long to invest money into it. Better to wait for it's successor. The build should be pretty high-end, and I won't go for the Titan cards as I feel violated by nVidia with that price.

The real main question remains in the choice of cases - which in my case currently is a 50-50 between the CaseLabs Merlin or the Corsair 900D.

If I go with the EK solution for the dual D5-top + reservoir, I don't have to worry about space issues at the bottom

 

[alpenwasser]

I've had the SP120s so I I agree that they can be noisy. But the noise level is still quite low if the airflow isn't full with dust or something. So it's not too bad. I did use the Noiseblocker NB-BlackSilentPRO PL-2 which are about even in performance and maybe even a little less noise. But I would like to stick to certain brands to make the theme of the build look nice. And Corsair PSU, SSDs and Memory are coming for sure. Why not fans?

The Noctua are no option due to the color. They are far too ugly...

Haha, yeah their colour scheme is... excentric :lol:

The PSU mounting kit is an ugly option in my opinion as it will make the cable management look just catastrophic. And it looks out of place anyways. I cannot see how I could possibly use that thing to make the build look nice and neat.

I've not used it in my SMH 10, but my PSU is more or less in a similar place as it would
be with the PSU mounting kit. I haven't really started yet with cable management, but
from what I can tell you would probably need to shorten your cables to make it look tidy.
So: It's possible, but a lot of work.

The thin radiators (in my case 60 mm) might be an option for the Corsair 900D or Little Devil case. If I go with the CaseLabs case I'm not too worried about airflow as I will be able to mount push-pull no problem. For thicker radiators that is certainly a nice option. Not to mention it looks better...

True, a monsta rad in push/pull looks bauce :rock:

The 40ºC water temperature are just a value to keep in mind. I first heard of it as a guideline like 10 years ago when I started building my first water cooled systems. It is basically just an indicator. As you may know, the HDD and GPU memory are two different things. 40ºC on the water is kinda much for any decent water cooled loop. Especially if your running multiple components on it. The HDD definitely is nothing to worry about, however if I have LC and I see GPU temps of 60ºC and more, I worry. Not because of the GPU, but because of the GPUs memory and mosfet. At 60ºC also most pumps are in danger of dying...

According to the reference manual for the D5 vario (pdf link), the pump will shut itself off
at a coolant temperature of ~95 C, while the environmental temps should not exceed
50 C. It also mentions a max coolant temperature of 60 C for the version with plastic
top. From what Google has told me, Acetal seems to be ok up to around 80 C, so if
you're running a custom Acetal top you should be fine

I definitely would like to have much cooler temperatures than that. Preferably that the water temperature is in the 33ºC neighborhood when under full load. Or 10 - 15ºC higher than room temperature; Just to be safe. I don't want to spend 2000 Euro on a water cooling and then worry about the temperatures really. Doesn't make much sense in my opinion.

Oh I'm not saying I like high coolant temps, but I'm an absolute silence freak, so if
I have to chose between higher temps and less noise I'll usually go with less noise.
But of course, how much noise is a lot of noise is subjective.

I used to run a passive loop that had coolant temps of around 42 C, which was
perfectly fine for absolute silence. And my last rig (which I've just taken apart to
cannibalize it for parts) used to run my 2600k @ ~ 70 C with a coolant temp of
~ 40 C without any problems. I would have liked to put in a second radiator but
lacked the space and money though.

My next rig should definitely have lower temps than that if everything goes according
to plan.

EDIT:

Definitely important that you looked that up for me. It is really helpful.

That's what I strive for

I definitely won't rush and get a 2011 socket. I do not see the point in it really. The Rampage IV Extreme has been out for far too long to invest money into it. Better to wait for it's successor. The build should be pretty high-end, and I won't go for the Titan cards as I feel violated by nVidia with that price.

Yes 2011 only really makes sense if you can make use of the cores, and that's not in many cases.
And the Titan is definitely way too expensive, especially for gaming. I primarily bought it for computing.
With all those CUDA cores it should do pretty well at something like BOINC's GPUGrid (at least in
theory ), and even in F@H it has pretty good points/Watt (although it doesn't really perform according
to its price since Nvidia's OpenCL driver is... lacking, to say the least).

The real main question remains in the choice of cases - which in my case currently is a 50-50 between the CaseLabs Merlin or the Corsair 900D.

They're both great cases imho, I think this is down to you.
I doubt you would regret either choice though tbh.

 

[airdeano]

I chose the CaseLabs SM8 Merlin for two reasons.
1. at the time there were no dedicated water-cooling cabinets in the mass-produced
market. if you wanted proper water-cooling, you had to hack, saw, ream and
what-not to make a slight dent in why you were doing this in the first place.
2. it makes perfect sense to purchase a strictly modular water-cooling cabinet for
water-cooling. ive had 800D, CM690, 810, phantom, Midi and really came to light
that modding typical air-cooled cases was getting old and expensive. I've been
tortured for 6-months to purchase a case and CaseLabs had the answer. SM8.

i'd waited long enough for the 900D and 80% of me agrees that I made the right
choice. I have my case now (had three immediate chances for purchasing the 900D
direct from Corsair and the "limited supply" was always depleted) so that answered
my case question.. CaseLabs - SM8. it's mine NOW, its in white, and i can h20 cool
till my wallet screams "EMPTY!" so no more waiting.

pricing here in the states.. at last glance at Corsairs website, $548.99 (minus $199
international shipping from hong kong makes it $350), CaseLabs SM8 $379.99

now from a non-USA location, you have to want the CaseLabs case due to
the extreme shipping. as for corsair 900D it'll be in every distro outlet that
has a good standing with corsair. and you won't be out the extreme shipping (maybe).

CaseLabs will work with the end-user on shipping as much as they can to get
their cases abroad. your personal choice, you have to stare at it day-in and day-out
but i am really glad I will not have to jigsaw another chassis to fit a radiator.

 

[mihapiha]

The difference for me between the two cases is quite massive.

The CaseLabs would cost (with the few extras I want with it) about $540.
CaseLabs confirmed that I have to expect about $170 in shipping costs on top of that. And then there is the 20% VAT I pay in my country. That means I'd end up at around $820 if there is no additional customs fee.

That means in the end I have to expect paying about 630 Euro for that case.

The Corsair 900D alternative is expensive as well, but no where near that. With shipping and VAT included I'd pay "only" 330 Euro for the 900D.

The CaseLabs is nearly twice as expensive. But the real problem is that I would probably need some (UN)Design mounts to fit the Pump-Reservoir thing on top of the 120 fans. They don't sell the (UN)Design mounts in Europe either. So I would be probably forced to order those from America as well. I expect they'd get me to $110ish.

Now is it worth getting the CaseLabs? With less shipping and VAT costs it would definitely be a no-brainer...

As it is now though, it is quite hard to decide if it's really worth it. It's such a massive problem that they don't have a single reseller in Europe. You'd think they'd want to cover a market of 600 million people

 

[Cloudie]

I am currently in the same position as you between a caselabs case or the 900D.
Tbh I much rather want the caselabs case as it is so easy working with it and fully modular is win imo.

900D however has enough potential to make a badass rig, but needs some creativity to make it work. Might have to cut out some things like the 5,25 bays which just looks stupid if you're not using it. In the end I think if you're getting a case for the long run and want to keep upgrading / changing, it might be better getting a case which makes things easier for you.

 

[alpenwasser]

The difference for me between the two cases is quite massive.

The CaseLabs would cost (with the few extras I want with it) about $540.
CaseLabs confirmed that I have to expect about $170 in shipping costs on top of that. And then there is the 20% VAT I pay in my country. That means I'd end up at around $820 if there is no additional customs fee.

That means in the end I have to expect paying about 630 Euro for that case.

Indeed. I paid about 900 USD for my SMH10 after everything was said and done. On
top of the actual VAT, there is also a processing fee, although of those 900 USD, only
about 80 USD was VAT + fees, I was quite surprised how little it turned out to be tbh.

In the end I think if you're getting a case for the long run and want to keep upgrading / changing, it might be better getting a case which makes things easier for you.

Personally, I consider the Caselabs to be an extremely long-term investment, and I think
that's not just me being overly optimistic. I can easily see myself getting 10 years or more
out out of this case, which amounts to ~90 USD per year. If you change the build and maybe
need some additional accessories somewhere down the line, that might be another 100 USD,
so in total I will have spent 100 USD/year over the next 10 years on a case that absolutely,
perfectly fits my needs.

And in all honesty, that's not actually that much (to me). If I end up to buying a new case every
year, or maybe every two years, because I'm simply not happy with the one I have, I will
easily rack up higher expenses than the price for my Caselabs while never being as happy
with the product.

If you get a Caselabs, you will be unlikely to ever need to replace that case (you might want to,
but you won't need to). That, to me, is why I eventually said "Yeah, it's worth it to me."

But naturally, that is an inherently personal decision.

 

[mihapiha]

I am not sure whether a CaseLabs case is that different from any other case. In one or two years time there might be something so cool on the market that you'll find you CaseLabs has to go too.

I have kept the cases I bought longer than the hardware in them, that's for sure, but I still don't think I've kept a single case for more than 2 years. I honestly think the CaseLabs would come to 3 years if it did really good, but somehow I have the feeling it will be like any other case.

It is modular, that's for sure, but I can see LittleDevil fixing some of the issues on his current flag-ship case (like side-panels), negative pressure and the not needed 5.25" drive bays. Then all of the sudden the LD is a player too. Especially since I can drive to him (like 100 miles away) and just pick one out.

The big thing I always thought with the LD which may make the investment worth wile, would be the SS cooling. He's working on software to set the fan, LEDs and the rest in Windows. A low noise SS cooling, how sick would that be?

But even if I'd skip the SS, I'm sure if I talk to him, I could convince him to get me a chiller in the bottom compartment instead of the SS. Maybe I could maintain the water temperature just a few degrees under room-temp then.

The LD needs revision though. But once a successor is out, the CaseLabs could be a stupid choice. Especially for me as a central European...

 

[alpenwasser]

I am not sure whether a CaseLabs case is that different from any other case. In one or two years time there might be something so cool on the market that you'll find you CaseLabs has to go too.

That's precisely what I mean: You might want to replace it, but I really doubt you
would actually need to. Of course something better and more awesome could
come along, but I've been building PC's for 15 years or so, which does not make me
infallible, but it does give me a good impression of my own needs. And those needs
I see satisfied with the CL for a very long time. But your needs (and desires) might
obviously differ.

The big thing I always thought with the LD which may make the investment worth wile, would be the SS cooling. He's working on software to set the fan, LEDs and the rest in Windows. A low noise SS cooling, how sick would that be?

Very sick :dribble:

I'm not saying I only consider the CL to be any good, but having thought about this
decision for many months (due to being sick I had the time :lol: ) I have accurately
assessed my needs for the foreseeable future and am definitely not regretting that
grand or so I dropped on my CL.

But again, my needs and desires might significantly differ from yours, I can only pass
on my train of thought, what you do with that is up to you

On another note: The new PC-V7 from LD cooling is definitely something I'm lusting
after, if I had the money for another serious, smaller build, I would most likely go and
get me one of those. I really like its proportions, layout and overall looks.

 

[mihapiha]

Yeah, you can tell that LD is really fixing the issues and complains people had with the previous case solution... So in time I think he will release a new revision of his V8 and then it could be the real awesomeness I'm looking for.

To tell you the truth I'm actually now favoring the Corsair 900D over the CaseLabs Merlin ST10-X. I have the feeling it will be much easier to make the cable management neat on the 900D.

I should have no problems fitting two D5 pumps in there with the 400mm reservoir (for looks). The top radiator would be a 480 monsta (80mm thick) with push fans, and the bottom compartment would house PSU, pump-reservoir solution and a 60mm thick 480 radiator also with only one set of fans. I believe it ought to fit quite nicely in there. I also thought of having the lower bottom compartment on the left side ventilated but blanked out on the right side. That way I would increase the positive air pressure in that case.

I can see it all coming together in a way which I would like. I just hope that the two radiators with only push Corsair SP120 fans will be able to handle the load I will throw at them.

 

[Deejeta]

I must admit the 900d certainly would look good filled to the brim with rads.
BTW in the op that picture had all the fans on the rads exhausting out the case. I would personally have the bottom as intake and as hot air rises the top as exhaust and the front as an intake as well.