Headphone upgrade suggestions

F

FireCharge

New member
Looking to upgrade my HD598s for a better gaming and music listening experience.

Got a budget ofaround 400-450 USD (incl. shipping). Currently have the E10K Olympus DAC/AMP.

Also, I own the AT M50x's and I prefer the larger soundstage of the Senns, so I'm hesitating getting a closed back pair

Mostly playing Rainbow Six: Siege and listening to EDM (mostly bounce, hardstyle and progressive house), electro-pop and some trap.

Thanks!
 
For that price I'd get the Sennheiser 700, Amazing set of cans and a few $ below your target price.

https://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-H...qid=1531507391&sr=1-3&keywords=sennheiser+700

41XoulU95pL.jpg


Frequency response 8 – 44.000 Hz
impedance: 150 ohms

EDIT

Nevermind they apparently went up $50 in that short time ^_^

For just under $400 you can get the Sennheiser 650's, Amazing cans, I own a pair myself.

https://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-H...qid=1531508284&sr=8-1&keywords=sennheiser+650

Frequency response is 10 - 39,500 Hz
Impedance: 300 Ohms

81%2BTvtOoS-L._SL1500_.jpg
 
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Beyerdynamic DT990s are very popular for gaming. Much cheaper too.

Wouldn't get the HD650 either since it's like what a 15 year old headphone? They have a newer version of them.

If you get anything above a DT990 or a Senns HD650 level headphone you'll probably need a stronger amp than the Fiio e10k
 
NeverBackDown said:
Beyerdynamic DT990s are very popular for gaming. Much cheaper too.

Wouldn't get the HD650 either since it's like what a 15 year old headphone? They have a newer version of them.

If you get anything above a DT990 or a Senns HD650 level headphone you'll probably need a stronger amp than the Fiio e10k
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990's are nice, Hot a pair of those aswell and they are great, Although if he wants a bit more bass I'd go with the 770's.
 
Dicehunter said:
990's are nice, Hot a pair of those aswell and they are great, Although if he wants a bit more bass I'd go with the 770's.
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More bass because it's a closed headphone. So if that's what he wants sure.

Comes down to open vs closed headphones. If he wants open then imo the best headphone for the money is a DT 990. For closed it's the DT770.

If he wants to spend more it becomes even more complicated. So many headphones. I personally not a that big a fan of Senns but I've only listened to some closed ones.
 
I know the 650s are quite old but then, there are the HD6XX from Massdrop, what do you think about those?
Have a friend with a pair that I could try them at but he's away on holiday at the moment.
Also, heard a lot about the DT990s as well, but wasn't completely sold on them.

Also, let's say that my current picks would be
1. 250Ohm DT990 Pros - Available locally for about 190USD
2. HD6XX from Massdrop for 215USD incl. shipping but I don't know about any import fees, don't think there's gonna be any.
Looked on Amazon for the HD660 S and HD700, but apparently they don't ship here.

Also, if you think that the price difference is going to be worth it - the HD660 S don't ship here from Amazon but are available locally for 580USD, and the HD700 for about 650USD

NeverBackDown said:
More bass because it's a closed headphone. So if that's what he wants sure.

Comes down to open vs closed headphones. If he wants open then imo the best headphone for the money is a DT 990. For closed it's the DT770.

If he wants to spend more it becomes even more complicated. So many headphones. I personally not a that big a fan of Senns but I've only listened to some closed ones.
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Bass isn't the most important thing for me, even though I listen to a lot of bass heavy tracks I prefer the bigger soundstage of the HD598s for the sort of heavier bass of the M50x that I currently own.

Also, for gaming I enjoy the bigger soundstage more, so I guess i'll go open back again!
 
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The HD660s are $500 US. So if you paid more than that I would say that's a ripoff since according to Google that should translate to 377british pounds. So paying more than us across the pond is a bad deal

HD700/800 imo are horribly over rated. Not saying they are bad but they get way to much focus because they just simply cost the most. Each have a moderate amount of bass but afaik the HD700 has great mids and highs and the HD800 has a wider soundstage but ear piercing highs. Both are also VERY amp dependant. I doubt you could run them close to there full potential off a Fiio E10k honestly.

Since you aren't sold on the Dt 990, you could get the Dt1990? Its probably more what you are looking for in comparison anyway. Bass is slightly better but far more clarity and responsiveness. Mids/highs will be better. But most of all what you are looking for is massive soundstage. I own the DT990 Pros and it's a fantastic headphone and under $200 is one of the best ones for open back. But in comparison to the HD series it's cheaper and at a disadvantage. So the best option is the DT1990 as a comparison and seeing as I found it for amazon prime for 378 pounds that's a far better deal than the HD660s.

For me it comes down to the HD660s and DT1990. Both are amazing but considering one is much cheaper it's probably best to get a Dt1990.

I own a pair of Beyer Amirons. Uses the same driver as a DT1990 but it's slightly different tuned but still open back. Also worth a consideration. SUPER comfortable. Like forget its there comfy. Love them. Use them for gaming and music for hours. DT should be similar in comfort, it just has a slightly stronger clamping force so it's more snug.
 
NeverBackDown said:
The HD660s are $500 US. So if you paid more than that I would say that's a ripoff since according to Google that should translate to 377british pounds. So paying more than us across the pond is a bad deal

HD700/800 imo are horribly over rated. Not saying they are bad but they get way to much focus because they just simply cost the most. Each have a moderate amount of bass but afaik the HD700 has great mids and highs and the HD800 has a wider soundstage but ear piercing highs. Both are also VERY amp dependant. I doubt you could run them close to there full potential off a Fiio E10k honestly.

Since you aren't sold on the Dt 990, you could get the Dt1990? Its probably more what you are looking for in comparison anyway. Bass is slightly better but far more clarity and responsiveness. Mids/highs will be better. But most of all what you are looking for is massive soundstage. I own the DT990 Pros and it's a fantastic headphone and under $200 is one of the best ones for open back. But in comparison to the HD series it's cheaper and at a disadvantage. So the best option is the DT1990 as a comparison and seeing as I found it for amazon prime for 378 pounds that's a far better deal than the HD660s.

For me it comes down to the HD660s and DT1990. Both are amazing but considering one is much cheaper it's probably best to get a Dt1990.

I own a pair of Beyer Amirons. Uses the same driver as a DT1990 but it's slightly different tuned but still open back. Also worth a consideration. SUPER comfortable. Like forget its there comfy. Love them. Use them for gaming and music for hours. DT should be similar in comfort, it just has a slightly stronger clamping force so it's more snug.
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I live in Israel so shipping and import fees are sky high for whatever you order,
that makes the 380gbp 1990 into a 500gbp pair of headphones.
I would love to get the 1990 instead of the 990, and based on a lot of recommendations I see that the Beyerdynamic line-up is superior price/performance-wise.

So last question is - I'm supposed to be traveling to Berlin this September, should I look to pick up a DT1990 there or get a pair of DT990s locally?
The 1990's cost would end up being slightly less than 3 times of the 990
Let me rephrase this:
Does the 3:1 cost ratio mean a somewhat close to 3:1 performance ratio on the E10K? Or should I spend less, but get a better DAC/AMP combo within my price range to accommodate future upgrades, for example, to a DT1990 or HD 660S?
 
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Cost is up to you and if you have the money and want to spend it.

But a performance to price ratio is hard to answer. We all hear differently. I've never heard of a headphone sounding 3x better than xxx headphone. So probably the answer would be no in that sense.

Your e10k can drive the DT990 Pros. I've done it as have other people on this forum. It's a great cheap combo unit. I would say it can drive the 1990, however I don't believe it will push it to it's limit. The DT990 is probably going to max it out. Should be fine either way but you'll need to have it in High Gain for both.

Edit:When I say max out, I mean volume wise. I bet you will still be able to drive it at a tolerable level so shouldn't be an issue. Beyer's are very sensitive. If it was the Senns you'd probably need a more powerful amp.
 
NeverBackDown said:
Cost is up to you and if you have the money and want to spend it.

But a performance to price ratio is hard to answer. We all hear differently. I've never heard of a headphone sounding 3x better than xxx headphone. So probably the answer would be no in that sense.

Your e10k can drive the DT990 Pros. I've done it as have other people on this forum. It's a great cheap combo unit. I would say it can drive the 1990, however I don't believe it will push it to it's limit. The DT990 is probably going to max it out. Should be fine either way but you'll need to have it in High Gain for both.

Edit:When I say max out, I mean volume wise. I bet you will still be able to drive it at a tolerable level so shouldn't be an issue. Beyer's are very sensitive. If it was the Senns you'd probably need a more powerful amp.
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Oh, I understand.
In terms of quality then, is the E10K's DAC good enough in general for headphones like the 1990?
Was really tempted to upgrade the E10K for a while also, so thanks for all the help, but here's my last question:
Should I get the 1990 now and upgrade the DAC/AMP later, or get the 990 and buy a ~200-300USD amp&DAC like the Schiit stuff or something (frankly I didn't research amps and DACs much since getting the E10K at first as a starter) and then later upgrade to a higher end pair of headphones when I have the cash?

Before you answer, my preference is to get the 1990 now and upgrade the DAC/AMP combo later. I think the E10K's DAC is a good enough quality for someone like myself at the moment and since I don't have stacks upon stacks to spend on audiophile gear as I have a PC upgrade in mind, it should be enough (or so I hope).

Thanks a lot!
 
I've tried quite a few closed back cans around the $3-500 mark and none were anywhere near as good for sound stage as open back. The only pair of closed back I have ever had where I would consider them to be almost as good as my Grado RS2E for that is my T5P and those are a thousand dollars.

If you are really super picky about your sound then the best pair of cans I have heard for detail in that price range are my RS2E, though note you will sacrifice deep down grunt. But for classical music or anything where you really want the detail they are the best I've had.

However one thing I will say? I could easily live without all of the other headphones I own now, apart from my RS2E and T5P. So like with computers? spend as much as you can. Get as high up the chain as you can, instead of making stops on the way there.
 
AlienALX said:
I've tried quite a few closed back cans around the $3-500 mark and none were anywhere near as good for sound stage as open back. The only pair of closed back I have ever had where I would consider them to be almost as good as my Grado RS2E for that is my T5P and those are a thousand dollars.

If you are really super picky about your sound then the best pair of cans I have heard for detail in that price range are my RS2E, though note you will sacrifice deep down grunt. But for classical music or anything where you really want the detail they are the best I've had.

However one thing I will say? I could easily live without all of the other headphones I own now, apart from my RS2E and T5P. So like with computers? spend as much as you can. Get as high up the chain as you can, instead of making stops on the way there.
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There's a big difference between audiophile gear and computers.
Unlike PCs which you can customize along the way and upgrade as you like, audiophile gear is pretty much do or die - If I didn't like the e10k or the current cans I own, I'd have to go ahead and resell them for a loss and then pay more for a different product.

Also, I do believe that going slowly in several tiers trains your ears much more than just getting a pair of 1500$ Audezes after you've used the stock earphones you got with your smartphone.

I remember the first pair of audio gear that got me into it was my first "real" IEMs, the Vsonic VSD3S.
Used to use cheapo 2$ ebay earphones or box earbuds for audio OTG since I was born until I turned 17 and got my first IEMs after a friend recommended them. Difference was INSANE, and I going back to the cheapo stuff when my Vsonics' cable went bad was awful.
Later on I got the HD598s and that was another step, then the DAC helped me improve further, and frankly going through with using different headphones and earphones I can say that it FEELS like I trained myself to notice more details.
For example, small details I couldn't hear via the VSD3S or even my car speakers for example are stuff that I can hear much more clearly nowadays.

Something that I didn't say but should - I was researching the Ebony TH-X00 when I saw the most recent drop (the new detachable cable version) and saw a lot of people complaining about the lack of difference between something like the hd700 to hd800 or similar top of the line audiophile devices compared to price points.
This is mostly why I decided to keep the bar at ~400-450USD for the most part. I'll just get another tier up with the audiophile gear, next step would be separate DAC and amp, something that could probably be able to power more expensive cans and also improve the quality of the current ones up to the upgrade point.
But until then, seeing as I'm not a music producer or spend hours each day just sitting there listening to music, tiers it is.
 
FireCharge said:
Also, I do believe that going slowly in several tiers trains your ears much more than just getting a pair of 1500$ Audezes after you've used the stock earphones you got with your smartphone.
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I've been doing this for the last couple of years, I went from low end headsets and started buying good headphones and working my way up slowly with the Beyer 770, 880, 990, 1770 and 1990 as well as Sennheiser 650 etc...

Makes you appreciate each step up IMO.
 
Dicehunter said:
I've been doing this for the last couple of years, I went from low end headsets and started buying good headphones and working my way up slowly with the Beyer 770, 880, 990, 1770 and 1990 as well as Sennheiser 650 etc...

Makes you appreciate each step up IMO.
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But is a huge waste of money. I did the same, and wasted loads of money lol.

Ed. Let me clarify. I have the T5P and RS2E here with me now (not for long, the RS2s are going to my mother's house with my Novo amp and self built pre). Any way, when I go over to my mother's house I have a pair of Beats Studio with NC. They are OK man, really not bad. However, when I get home and put on my T5P? lol, the difference is absolutely mind blowing. Seriously, being at her house right now is almost to the point of being painful, when it comes to getting my audio fix.

Once you get a top end pair of cans you will never want to listen to anything else. And you will always know the difference, trust me on that.

I've been using an album called "A raver's diary" by "Dusty Kid". I wouldn't try buying it on CD (as it's over £50 and quite rare) but seriously? it should be called "How to demo headphones". It is the most amazing, complex, deep, ever changing music I have ever heard. Especially the track "America". It almost becomes about four tracks, it is that complex. And as soon as I get home I know my T5P. Crap, you could blindfold me and I would always know when I have my T5P on. With a top end set up you will never tire of it, nor "get used" to it. It will blow your freakin mind every single time you listen to it.
 
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AlienALX said:
But is a huge waste of money. I did the same, and wasted loads of money lol.

Ed. Let me clarify. I have the T5P and RS2E here with me now (not for long, the RS2s are going to my mother's house with my Novo amp and self built pre). Any way, when I go over to my mother's house I have a pair of Beats Studio with NC. They are OK man, really not bad. However, when I get home and put on my T5P? lol, the difference is absolutely mind blowing. Seriously, being at her house right now is almost to the point of being painful, when it comes to getting my audio fix.

Once you get a top end pair of cans you will never want to listen to anything else. And you will always know the difference, trust me on that.

I've been using an album called "A raver's diary" by "Dusty Kid". I wouldn't try buying it on CD (as it's over £50 and quite rare) but seriously? it should be called "How to demo headphones". It is the most amazing, complex, deep, ever changing music I have ever heard. Especially the track "America". It almost becomes about four tracks, it is that complex. And as soon as I get home I know my T5P. Crap, you could blindfold me and I would always know when I have my T5P on. With a top end set up you will never tire of it, nor "get used" to it. It will blow your freakin mind every single time you listen to it.
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I get your point, but here's mine: I'm a 21yo after military service, working my ass off to save money for uni next year (maybe a nice vacation in the waiting time) and a PC upgrade, also probably a decent laptop which I'll get in a year or so.
At the moment, I'm trying to save about 25% off of my slightly higher than minimum wage paycheck whilst still buying the stuff I WANT but couldn't get during my service because the pay was absolutely trash.
Saying that - something like the T5P or for example the HD800s that I've been drooling over for like 2 years, is something that I really need to hold off on (even though I have enough money saved up to buy them) up until I finish uni.
Also - something like that big headphone quality bump or for example a new watch (also a hobby that I started picking up on) is something that I'd like to get as a self reward for completing some task.

P.S. I really don't think paying over 33% of cost of the headphones for import fees ALONE, or the 35% custom fees which are probably gonna happen since it's a 1KUSD pair of headphones (Israeli law states that electronics up to 500$ are not subjected to custom fees, however the 17% sale tax should be added into the import fee)

Price: $993.41 + $370.16 Shipping & Import Fees Deposit to Israel
 
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