Gray's New Cascade *56k Warn*

Gray Mole

New member
I've been pretty busy these days, part of why I just haven't been posting much. This is why...

It's much better than my first one, though the compressors are a little smaller, the results are consistent, and there's no start issues on these. Gasses are R290/402a about 30% 290 on the High stage, and R290/R23 for the Low stage. Just a little R290 on the Low, and it's smoothed things out nicely. I charged to about 10psi with 290, then R23 from there.

Right, used my MP14FB 1/2HP compressor for the High stage, changed the oil to mineral. Got the higher viscosity stuff for it cos the compressor tends to run a little hot. GS4 I think? GS3 is standard. Well whatever it is, it ends in 3 but the viscosity was a little higher on this mineral oil.

Used a new/old stock FR10A R12 1/3HP compressor for the Low stage. not a big compressor, but decent. Worked well, and it's got a super tiny starter on the side that's just great. No start issues at all. I'd never seen one, and I hope it's the way I'm supposed to hook it up, but I tried changing to a standard coil and start cap setup on the FR7.5A I have as well, and it wouldn't work right with it. Went back to this little starter thing and it was perfect. Who knows. I should take a piccy of it, but my cam is pretty bad so it would just be fuzzy anyway.

This is a full captube kit. 5.5' of .031" cap for the High stage, and 7.2' of .031" cap for the Low. The HX is a coil in coil I put together. I wasn't sure about it cos I didn't have any 5/8" so I used 1/2" and 1/4". About 11' long coiled up. I really wasn't sure if it could be long enough, or would be decent for evaporation, but thought I'd try it out. I wanted to save the DII coax for the Auto, if my supplier ever gets the last couple of bits I need into stock. Anyway, the results speak for themselves on that one.



Yes that's a Tagan 'silent' PSU box lol I prewrapped the HX in armaflex tape, then into the box and expanding foam did the rest. Sure expanded the box though.

Where the line comes from the bottom of the HX for the Low stage, there's a little bend down, that's the filter/dryer, just a bullet type. Was perfect as it takes the captube right to where the 3way is for the oil return, and the flexi attached, so was straight on to wrapping the captube.



That's a 15cm fan, loud but effective. I tried a 12cm but just didn't do it. Small desuperheater just in front of the fan as well. Tight fit, but I was trying to make it somewhat compact. Henry oil sep, float type. Little hand-grenade for the filter/dryer on the low stage, was a little higher capacity than the copper bullets. Had a little 'accident' with the expanding foam, and had to scoop some out from the desuperheater. My hands are a mess lol but got most of it off, and just a little messy spot.

I think that desuperheat coil will help a little on the discharge on the Low stage, as it did get a little warmer after a longer time of running. I'm going to build a box around it, and put a matching fan on the exhaust at the back, so the airflow on that coil will do a little, and every little counts.



Just a back view, shows a little of the pipwork, though it's hard to see it well with the insulation. The High stage suction is from the left on this view, over the top, then down and loops up to the compressor. I was hoping that long run would help with flooding and it did a decent job, though really if I'd have had an accumulator or even some 7/8" reducers to make one I would. I might still, and if I do, I'll be using 90% 402a when it's recharged, but I haven't decided yet.

The Low stage suction is down under that desuperheat coil on the little compressor, along to the other side and up to the 3 way for the oil return. The size of that run ended up being perfect. When I charged that one, I set it to just barly frost to the compressor, and the frost hardly moved. After insulation tight to the compressor, I could feel it was a bit cold at the compressor but no frost, and under load it was still just a little cold there, though not as cold, so the charge, and the setup on the pipework, was ideal.

Cont.
 
On with the show
biggrin.gif






No 'Look ma, -100c' piccy's on this one, I already did that, and the novelty wore off. This is a working cascade, so I went straight for the throat.

That's no load, and a little cool in the workshed. Was about 14c or so, not really what it'll do in the house, but nice all the same. It's running anywhere from 0psi to about 3psi max. No vacuum, it's charged for a decent load.

The High side is the annoying part. It starts frosting the compressor at about -34c or so.

cont.
 
Not a lot, but it does. At -40 is frosting up pretty good, but no flooding, no funny noises from the compressor, but that's where an accumulator would be handy.





That's after about 1/2 hour running with the 130w (Might be higher) load tester, and it's about 21c in the shed. I'm assuming that's about room temp for most people, so should be ballpark for how it's gonna run. Not bad, I was hoping for -65 to -70 load temps and that's where it's at. I could really use a load tester for about 160 to 170w. I think that would be ideal.

cont.
 
After I got a little closer to 'room temp' the frosting back on the High stage compressor was gone completely, and at room temp is was just a little warm there, though not as warm as the rest of the compressor, so it was about as good a balance as I could manage without a TEV.





That's after a solid hour on load, and it's getting a little warm in the workshed. About 26c or so, and my jacket came off a while ago. Might have been warmer. Still not bad, but the ambient rising had brought the HX outlet temp down a little. I put the probe for the HX too close to the outlet anyway, but it made it a lot easier to guage the load response.

cont.
 




That's after hanging out in there for quite a while, and I lost track of time. It's too warm in the shed, and I'm almost breaking a sweat. I like it that the HX is still under 30c, considering the mix of 290 in there. The coil is starting to heat up a bit on the Low discharge, and that's where the fan would be nice, to help it precool a bit.

Well I've still got a lot of work to do. Got to build a box for it with a rear exhaust fan. I also need to sort out that mount. It's a Chilly1 head, but there was no machining for a normal mount, and I got that floor drain thing with it. When I went to mount it up, I couldn't use the bolts but the normal A64 retention has the same thread, and I could just barely get 'em started in the holes with a 1/2" neoprene pad in there. The downside as well is that the plastic on the mount flexes far too much, so I'm gonna hvae to mod a circular plate to sit on the back of that mount, whic is gonna make it too far for the bolts. I'm gonna have to go shopping for longer bolts, I guess, or threaded rod.

I'm happy with it though, and if it's tuned high enough for 175w or better (the captube should put it at about 180 to 190w) and I'm pretty sure it is, it should still hold an X2 with good vcore at -65 or so, and that's what I was hoping for. We'll see. Still a bit of work with wiring and prettying a few things up, but the guts are there and working great.

Cheers guys
smile.gif


Gray
 
Good work Grey ol fella you will be getting orders for these before too long mate my first stage is all up and running its just getting a good working compressor for the second stage but I am sure I have somthing comming soonish if I can find the time grrrrrrrrrr
 
That's great, Fats :D I can't wait to see yours, it's probably gonna be alot prettier than mine ;)

I really enjoyed this one. When the box is done, it should be about double the dimensions of a prommie, which isn't really that big.

Get your pics taken of yours, I want to see how you're laying it out :)

Gray
 
Lol mine is an ugly little tyke as it is still in the ghetto stages till I get a good working pair of compressors
 
Nice work there mole! Doesn't look too bad, dunno what your on about :p

How hard is it to make a cascade?

I have a Mach 1 sitting here with a dead controller. Wouldn't mind looking for another compressor and getting a cascade made up, just for the fun of having one, and to clock the FX to the knees when I get it.

I want to get back into overclocking and wanna try at some UK Records or even WR!

Cheers

Boardy
 
LOL I haven't benched for so long, I'm not sure I remember how :D

I put this together for someone, and if he decides he wants it I won't have it anyway. I just need to sort out the few things, and it's ready. I don't even have a cpu that's any good at the moment, and my mobo is pretty iffy as well, so not quite yet for me.

Hey Boardy :) I'ts not easy to build phase stuff at the best of times, just ask Fatty. However, that little Mach of yours has a few things in it that would work well on a cascade. The compressor and the condensor could both be used. Just need a few other things though. That little condensor should work for a desuperheater.

My low stage compressor is an FR10A Danfoss, and there's a NL11F in the mach, just a hair bigger displacement, so would be a good start. I'd like to see something a little bigger on the High stage than that though, 1/3HP is just a hair low, although if you work with CO2 I think you might just make it, but your lowest load temps aren't gonna be quite this low I think.

I bet you're looking forward to one of Dave's cascades Gollum. Has he told you what color it's gonna be yet, or is it one of his alu boxes? Dave makes some awesome cascades, I hope one day to work with Ethylene so I can make 'em as cold as his :)

Gray
 
Gray Mole said:
LOL I haven't benched for so long, I'm not sure I remember how :D

I put this together for someone, and if he decides he wants it I won't have it anyway. I just need to sort out the few things, and it's ready. I don't even have a cpu that's any good at the moment, and my mobo is pretty iffy as well, so not quite yet for me.

Hey Boardy :) I'ts not easy to build phase stuff at the best of times, just ask Fatty. However, that little Mach of yours has a few things in it that would work well on a cascade. The compressor and the condensor could both be used. Just need a few other things though. That little condensor should work for a desuperheater.

My low stage compressor is an FR10A Danfoss, and there's a NL11F in the mach, just a hair bigger displacement, so would be a good start. I'd like to see something a little bigger on the High stage than that though, 1/3HP is just a hair low, although if you work with CO2 I think you might just make it, but your lowest load temps aren't gonna be quite this low I think.

I bet you're looking forward to one of Dave's cascades Gollum. Has he told you what color it's gonna be yet, or is it one of his alu boxes? Dave makes some awesome cascades, I hope one day to work with Ethylene so I can make 'em as cold as his :)

Gray

Firstly - I think most benchers have niggly problems like lacking CPUs and having dodgy mobos. ;)

Secondly - Yes I know what colours. They're both in DFI style orange and yellow.
 
Yeah, I've got a pretty good collection of dead hardware. Latest addition is a FX-57 though :( was sad to see it die.

I'm so wrapped up in the phase building right now though that I don't really have the time. Well that and trying to keep my 24/7 rig from dying. My redline just died as well. I think I'll wait to bench again until I have a little more luck in that area :D I seem to have picked up a curse on my kit lately lol

Sounds like a nice setup Dave's building for you. He's a busy guy, so it takes some time, but I've never heard anyone complain about the results from his cascades ;)

Gray
 
Saw this on XS, it looks good and fairly compact! :)

I'd like to give building them ago, just for fun. It's just finding the time to commit to it...

I think I'll stick to air for now :rolleyes:
 
The reworked cascade

Well I've got Kayl to thank for not letting me leave well enough alone lol Thanks mate :D

I'll get some piccy's of it later today, but I added one of the suction line heat exchangers I made to the cascade today, and the results were awesome

-94 unloaded

-75 load temp (with my load tester)

-50 HX no load

-44 HX running

-39 HX load temp (with my load tester)

I've dropped 8 degrees easy, pretty much no frosting back at all, as the SLHX is also a small accumulator, and those temps were after running for a good while, and about 22-23 degrees ambient.

I think that pretty much sums up the importance of a SLHX

NOW I feel like I'm done with it.

I went with the same mix on the High stage of about 30% 290 to 402a, and just a couple squirts this time of 290 on the Low, maybe 5 psi's worth.

I've learned a bit again, and the cascade is now where it really should be.

Like I said, I'll get some pics of the added SLHX, and some 'money shots' of it in action a little later, gotta go help the wife run some errands.

Cheers

Gray
 
Bloody hell, nearly at the -100 mark. Can I have a -100 one lol.

Nice work mate.

On another note, I've seen people tune them so that when load is applied the temps actually drop more. What's going on there?

Also, can someone PLEASE explain what an autocascade is to me please? I'm intrigued as my understanding is that it does what a cascade does, maybe not to the same temps but with 1 compressor??

Cheers

Boardy
 
Just need to wait for my son to go to sleep and I'll go out and get some action shots.

I hit -100 on the last cascade but no real capacity. R23 just isn't cold enough for -100 to be usable. That's what Chilly and PC Ice are using on theirs.

-94 on a working R23 cascade really exceeded my expectations though. I might beef up the charge just a little so it's no such a drop on temps from idle to load, but with it working as well as it is, I'm not sure I want to mess with it too much. The only thing I really want to do is get another resistor and make the load tester I want. I just realised I've got the perfect PSU for it, just need a 2 ohm power resistor and I'm set.

-75 is only about 15 degrees higher than the Ethylene cascades are running at on load though, so I'm not doing badly at all. I want to measure the low side psi on the Low stage and see what the variation is that I'm getting such low No Load temps.

Autocascade? Well I'll explain that once the kid's asleep, might take a little time ;)

Gray
 
The simple explanation is that an autocascade is a cascade but only using one compressor with a gas mix.

The explanation of the physics behind it is a touch more complicated, so i wont try to explain it, go to XS and look in the phase change section and you should find enough info to satisfy.

Nice results Gray, bit of a beast you have there, great work :D

G
 
Back
Top