Gaming rig needs an upgrade. But what to spend the £120/$160 on?

[tinytomlogan]

OMG just seen the pics!

Dude you need to take that whole thing apart and clean every last bit of dust. Dust is like an insulating blanket!

 

[7up]

Ha! ok.

I didn't include the dust panel in the pics, which sits in front of the door. I also get in there every few weeks with the hoover, and wipe the fans off, but it could probably do with a spring cleaning.

 

[tinytomlogan]

100% needs a strip down clean. GPU out and all dust out, same with CPU cooler, you can wash the coolers if you take them off and dry them 100%. deffo need to start with the basics before you start clocking dude!

 

[7up]

Hello gentlemen,

It didn't seem worth a new thread, as this post is very much linked to the same setup.

It's the same question, slightly updated rig (specs below), with no limit on budget.

So here's the state of play....

My rig isn't OC'd yet, but has been thoroughly dismantled/cleaned and now has considerably better airflow, with 2 x 2200 rpm fans added.

By cleaning, improving airflow, installing new fans I was hopeful that I would notice an improvement in Left 4 Dead 2 (pretty much the only game I play right now) at nearly-full settings, maintaining decent 40+ fps.

Admittedly, I did not record performance beforehand, but I perceive no noticeable difference since this minor overhaul. Bit dissappointing, but at least my rig is healthier now.

I have already spent a fairly exhaustive amount of time on maintenance, and while Iam happy to research OCing and give it a go, i would be inclined not to bother if I could only expect marginal improvement in performance by doing so.



Put simply, after many man-hours spent learning about my rig (bought second hand) and pulling it to bits, I have reached the tweaking-fatigued stage, at least for the time being.

So to hell with it: I will pay whatever I have to in order to stop the inevitable stuttering/FPS slow-down currently experienced in demanding FPS shooters. (specifically L4D2).



What would you recommend I buy, and how much is it going to hurt me?

I am currently travelling and want to order parts while Im away, so I can hit the ground running with smooth L4D2 gameplay on my return to good old England.

As always, your input is greatly appreciated.

Cheers guys!

E8400 CORE2DUO PROCESSOR 3ghz 6 MB

Video Card: ATI Radeon HD '4870 X2'

MOBO: Asus P5K Premium wifi ap

- DMA/ATA 133 (Ultra) x 1, DMA/ATA 66 (Ultra) x 1, Socket LGA775, ATX, Intel P35 Chipset

120mm Thermalright w/1x 2200rpm Yate Loon

Sound card: Creative SB X-Fi ExtremeGamer

Memory: 6GB

(2x2GB) Corsair TwinX XMS2, DDR2

+(2x1GB) Geil Black Dragon 2GB 2x 1GB 800Mhz Dual Channel DDR2

Hard drive: 750GB Samsung HD753LJ

Operating System Version: Windows 7 (64 bit)

 

[tinytomlogan]

When was the last time you reinstalled it dude - as in the full operating system is it a legal copy?

When was the last time you removed your graphics drivers, did a full ati driversweep and reinstalled them?

PhysX updates might also be a good idea following the same uninstall & driversweep rule

Id be interested to see if removing the 2x1gb sticks made any difference too tbh (matched ram is far better)

 

[alienware]

There's something horrifically wrong if that machine can not chew up and spit out L4D2. Badly badly wrong.

 

[7up]

Hi guys,

Cheers for the responses. Yeah, I was afraid to hear that. I sort of figured I should be able to crank L4D2 on highest settings with my current hardware, with semi-decent FPS at the very least.

The game runs very smooth but fails during busy scenes. Lower FPS and seperately, an infrequent lag problem (online and offline) where all characters freeze then reappear a second later, where they should be.

-Reinstalled W7 Ultimate about one month ago to try and cure this recurring problem. To phrase carefully; I cannot necessarily confirm that it is a legitimate copy. However, it is widely reported to be very decent with many, many content users with no reported problems like this, and with every care taken in the burn/install process. I've used the same copy on this machine before with no problems on L4D2.

(L4D2 problems occurred before I dismantled, so I'm confident damage wasn't caused in the cleaning process)

-Experimented with a number of previous ATI drivers. Revo Uninstaller, ATI uninstaller and Driver Sweeper each time.

-Updated all other available drivers too, soundcard included.

-Tried uninstalling other games (along with Fallout 3, reported to cause some problems with other games)

-Tried reinstalling L4D2, obviously

-Tried removing 1gb sticks. Tried switching RAM slots to every conceivable configuration.

-Tried many remedies suggested in Steam forums (muti-core disable, defrag files, alternative drivers, tab out of game etc etc)

Not yet tried:

-Will try PhysX update when I get home.

-Will try an install of an alternative W7 ultimate copy when I get home.

Guess there's no point shelling out for new hardware when I might be able to fix this. Just so tired!

One thing: Perhaps there is monitoring software I could run while I play?

Something which could help point to the hardware that's causing the problem, if indeed this is the case?

I'll come back with an update after October 16th.

Have a great month, all the best

Ash

 

[alienware]

Download GPUz and look at it. At the bottom is a drop down menu, make sure you can see both GPUs and that both are running 16X.

Don't use Catalyst 10.7 *or* 10.8. They are terrible for me. Infact, on my 3870x2s they just do not work. Games crash before even loading. Use 10.6, this was the last proper release and not an Alpha or Beta version.

Get rid of the Windows WDM or whatever it is called driver. As soon as you are done with your install get into safe mode and remove the ATI drivers. Yes, there will be some. Then reboot and your screen should be in low colour at 640x480. Then install the Catalysts.

Your problem could well be down to GPU heat. The ATI CCC is absolutely terrible for getting your fans working. So, install MSI's Afterburner as soon as you have set up the drivers and get it to kick in the fans properly. If you need help doing this holler, but my 3870x2 were pretty much at the point of burning out with ATI's fan controls. I mean seriously I was going over 90c and stuttering like crazy.

Latest Physx version is 9.10.

 

[7up]

Yo,

Re ATI 10.6 drivers: Totally agree - Like you, I was getting reduced performance on anything higher.

Thanks for the other software recommendations / W7 install tips - I'll use these when I am home again.

One thing I forgot to mention: I was running L4D2 on 1920 x 1080, also using ATI tools to force higher graphics settings (edge detect etc).

Obviously this would make the game a little more demanding than default, but even when I tested on lower settings / resolutions, the stuttering and fps drops would occur (though to a lesser extent), so as you say, something is definitely wrong with the current setup.

 

[7up]

OK, home early.

Prepare to hurl bricks for stupid question:

Where is the ATI compatible Physx 9.10 software of which you speak?

All I can find are links specifically for Nvidia cards.

Did try to find out for myself, but searches for ATI physx download, etc, merely get forums discussing hybrid GPU setups.

 

[alienware]

You need Physx 9.10 and GenL's hybrid physx mod. Latest version is 1.04ff.

 

[7up]

1. Uninstalled all(safe mode etc)

2. Physx 9.10 install

3. GenL's hybrid physx mod 1.04ff Install.

4. ATI 10.6 reinstall

5. GPU Z install shows both cards at 16x.

6. Afterburner install - adjusted fan settings

L4D2 still drops fps to 35 in busy scenes.

Sigh.

Guess a fresh Windows 7 install is required, failing anything else.

If that doesn't work I may shoot myself.

 

[7up]

UPDATE: Bad RAM?

Hi guys, after a couple of tests, it appears my fps dips might actually be down to bad RAM, after all.

Tried removing pairs and testing, as Tom suggested.

Couldnt spot a difference last time I tried this, but this time some worrying discrepancies.

Test 1: Default config - 6GB RAM

2x1GB Geil Black Dragon 2GB 800Mhz Dual Channel DDR2

+2x2GB Corsair TwinX XMS2, DDR2

Results: As previously described, stuttering and fps drop to 35-45fps during busy scenes.



Test 2: 2GB RAM

2x1GB Geil Black Dragon. (Removed 2x2GB Corsair TwinX XMS2, DDR2)

Results: L4D2 fps improved slightly, not buckling as easily under the strain of explosion/enemy horde scenes.

Test 3: 4GB RAM

2x2GB Corsair TwinX XMS2, DDR2 (Removed 2x1GB Geil Black Dragon)

Results: Seemingly identical to running Default Config (Test 1) with all 4 sticks. Heavy dips during busy scenes. Not quite as good as Test 2.

All tests conducted on same L4D2 scene with the following graphics settings:

Res: 1920 x 1080 (60hx LCD TV Monitor)

AA: 8 x Edge Detect (24x sample equivalent)

All other settings: Maxed out (In CCC, overriding L4D2 settings)

Triple Buffering: On

Conclusion: Not only are the 2x1GB Geil sticks better than 2x2GB Corsairs - they are performing slightly better than (2x1GB + 2x2GB) combined.

-Have I found the culprit here, and if so should I just order additional 2x1GB RAM to match the seemingly healthy pair?

(Just found the warranty receipt for the possibly-faulty Corsairs 2x2GBs)

-If yes, will 4GB RAM total (compared to 6GB) still be enough to spit out 60fps L4D2, max settingts?

I will hold off on the W7 reinstall for now.

Continued appreciation, gents.

 

[Diablo]

4GB is competely adequate for gaming, I run 4GB in almost all of my machines and it is fine, never run out of RAM.

 

[alienware]

Mixing ram = bad mmkay? The timings are probably different. In one of my machines (here ATM) I am using 1gb of patriot (2x512) and 2gb of OCZ. I can't set the timings because the patriot is way tighter so I have to let it auto detect. 5-5-5-16. Poop.

I also suffer stutters during games. I don't when using a full set of 4gb (4x1gb) Corsair Dominator.

2gb is not enough for heavy gaming. Well, it is, but due to Windows sitting underneath it and guzzling up memory with Aero and so on you will struggle.

Personally I would just buy 4gb of new ram. Not try using the old with the new. Sell off the pairs and have done with it.

4GB is competely adequate for gaming, I run 4GB in almost all of my machines and it is fine, never run out of RAM.

It would be, you're an ATI user. Nvidia cards suck down a whacking great chunk of your ram when you enter a game. Not that he's using Nvidia, but it happens. When I had my 280 not only did it use its 1gb but it gobbled up 1gb of my system ram too.

Oh and also this. I'm sure I told you to do this AGES ago. Instead of buggering around shooting blind actually test your ram with a REAL ram test. Saves all the guessing.

Microsoft’s new generation operating system Windows 7 contains a boot-time Memory Diagnostic Tool that runs a detailed memory test.The Windows Memory Diagnostic Tool includes a comprehensive set of memory tests. If you are experiencing problems while running Windows 7, you can use the Windows Memory Diagnostic tool to determine whether the problems are caused by failing hardware, such as RAM or the memory system of your motherboard.Also if you are overclocking or tweaking your RAM settings in BIOS then you can use the Windows Memory Diagnostic tool to do RAM or memory stability check.

To run Windows Memory Diagnostic tool in Windows 7, do any one of the the following methods:

Method 1:From Windows 7 Start Menu

* Click the Windows 7 Start button, type memory, and click on Windows Memory Diagnostic

* When the Windows Memory Diagnostic screen loads, click Restart now and check for problems

* You computer will restart

* The memory diagnostic will run and may take some time

* Windows will restart and report any errors to you

Method 2: From Windows 7 Control Panel

* Click the Windows 7 Start button.

* Select Control Panel

* Click the System and Maintenance icon

* Select Administrative Tools

* Then, click the Memory Diagnostics Tool icon.

* Click the option to restart your computer now and run the memory diagnostics test or to schedule the memory diagnostic test to run at your next reboot.

Method 3: From Windows 7 Command Prompt

* Click the Windows 7 Start button.

* Type cmd in the Start Menu’s search box.

* Right-click cmd.exe in the search results and then select Run as administrator.

* Type mdsched.exe in the command prompt and then press enter.

* Click the option to restart your computer now and run the memory diagnostics test or to schedule the memory diagnostic test to run at your next reboot.

Method 4: From The Windows Boot Manager

* Restart your computer.

* Start pressing F8 on your keyboard.

* This will open advanced boot options screen.

* Click Esc on your keyboard while you’re in the advanced boot options screen.

* You’ll be taken to the Windows Boot Manager screen.

* Press Tab on your keyboard to move to the Tools section of the boot manager screen and then press enter to start the Memory Diagnostics.

If you want to select advanced options after the Memory Diagnostic Tool starts, press the F1 key to modify the type of tests and number of times they run. After you finish making configuration changes to the tests, press F10 to start.

If you have any errors Windows Memory Diagnostic tool in Windows 7 will show up while it scans and a report will be given to you the next time your computer boots up.If you want to stop the memory diagnostic scan at any time press Esc on your keyboard.If Windows Memory Diagnostic tool in Windows 7 finds errors in your memory it’s time to replace your computer’s memory.

 

[7up]

Thanks guys. Fast replies really helping me along. This should be my last query (at least until new RAM arrives

)

RAM Diagnostic Results:

Windows 7 Memory Diagnostic: No errors reported.

MemTest (USB bootable): No errors reported.

Guess I can eBay my sticks with a clean conscience, then.

I haven't purchased RAM before. I could try contacting Corsair (for my 11 month old 2x2GB sticks) under my lifetime warranty and asking for a different set, but I doubt they'd go for that.

Any recommendations for top performance 4x1GB sticks, assuming they're the best way to go?

There seem to be a couple of billion options out there!

 

[alienware]

Doesn't matter one jot with Corsair 'cos they're lifetimed any way. Recently I sold a set of Twinx 1gb pair for £23 on the bay. I sold them as not working, too.

It's about £6 to send them back to happy Holland, job done.

 

[alienware]

http://www.coastwaycomputerstore.co...2gb-2x128mx64-240-5-5-5-15-64m&idProduct=1166

Two sets of, job done.

Or if they're out of stock

http://www.kikatek.com/product_info.php?products_id=103770&source=froogle

Are confirmed in. And they're the absolute best of DDR2.

Oh, and be sure to set the timings manually. You wouldn't believe what a difference that makes !

 

[7up]

Thanks Al, 4x1GB Corsair Dominator's on their way here.

 

[Diablo]

Just to let you know Alien, my S2E with a 280GTX runs 4GB, the CHIV with 280GTX + 9800GT runs 4GB and the laptop (260MGTX) runs 4GB. They all seem to be fine. (I don't mean to be rude if this comes across that way)