WYP
News Guru
AMD's next-gen 8-core can deliver impressive single-threaded results.
Read more about AMD's Ryzen 7 7700X's Cinebench performance.
Read more about AMD's Ryzen 7 7700X's Cinebench performance.
AMD's Ryzen 7 7700X is 20% faster than its predecessor in leaked Cinebench test
- Thread starter WYP
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AlienALX
Well-known member
Had a quick look and apparently it can boost to 5.4ghz on a single core. So if it can indeed maintain that clock speed on the single thread test it doesn't sound amazing. I mean, if that is true then the score is simply in line with clock speed gain. And given that it will most certainly be overclocking itself (because AMD leave no head room in there) that makes it seem a little underwhelming. IDK, time will tell I suppose.
As for the highest end reaching higher clock speeds? yeah I can see that, but not on a single core IMO. If the higher end ones can clock at higher than 5.4ghz on a single core I would be pretty surprised.
Funny though because I said a while back that AMD really needed to start pushing their frequencies. If they don't and Intel manage a shrink again within a decade they'll be in trouble
As for the highest end reaching higher clock speeds? yeah I can see that, but not on a single core IMO. If the higher end ones can clock at higher than 5.4ghz on a single core I would be pretty surprised.
Funny though because I said a while back that AMD really needed to start pushing their frequencies. If they don't and Intel manage a shrink again within a decade they'll be in trouble
AlienALX
Well-known member
Hmm. Just did a little digging and it appears the stock 12700k can do 757 single thread. And it is not running at 5.4ghz. 8750 points on the whole CPU.
TBH unless this is an engineering sample with derped clocks that is really underwhelming for a supposed next gen part with 8 cores and 16 threads.
It also concerns me more because given it's the 7700x (with the part name suggesting that it is the replacement for the 5700x which wasn't anywhere near to being cheap).
Dunno man. On the fence this time around. It's also a bit suspicious that they have pushed it forward to beat Raptorlake's launch.
TBH unless this is an engineering sample with derped clocks that is really underwhelming for a supposed next gen part with 8 cores and 16 threads.
It also concerns me more because given it's the 7700x (with the part name suggesting that it is the replacement for the 5700x which wasn't anywhere near to being cheap).
Dunno man. On the fence this time around. It's also a bit suspicious that they have pushed it forward to beat Raptorlake's launch.
the 12700k is 8+4 or 20 threads ... so nothing too bad.
the price of the 12700k is also 100+ euro higher than the 5800x where i live (444 euro vs. 294 euro).
rumors say the 13700k will cost 480$... the 7700x is rumored to be 350$.
that said i too expect the 7700x to do better.
but on the other side, when AMD can keep power consumption under control that would be a plus.
i would also not be suprised if this is pure BS.
the guy has achived his goal as this is retweeted, reposted all over the internet and amd and intel fanboys fight over it.
the leakers throw numbers on the wall and hope some will be right in the end.
i begin to hate that game...
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AlienALX
Well-known member
I would hazard a guess and say this will at least cost as much as the 12700k, though. That is what I was getting at. I know the 12700 has more under the hood, but that's not a bad thing surely?
I think I often forget what the 12700k costs now tbh. I paid about £350, I forget it has gone up in price after the reviews went live LOL.
I think I often forget what the 12700k costs now tbh. I paid about £350, I forget it has gone up in price after the reviews went live LOL.
i heard that intel will raise prices for raptor lake but AMD will keep price for the 7700x the same.
the 12700k has more under the hood but also cost more.
it costs more than the 5900x here in germany (5900x = 394 euro, CB20 multicore 8500 points).
IF the rumored price is correct the 13700k will cost more than the 7700x.
i don´t compare CPU per core count, i compare them by the money i have to pay and performance. ^_^
but yes from some rumors you would expect ZEN4 to do MUCH better than raptor lake.
but i think the rumor sources i trust always said at best 35% better than ZEN3.
and i think 25-26% in cinebench20 is in line with that. maybe early sillicon, non final mainboards.
in the end it comes down to price.
the 12700k has more under the hood but also cost more.
it costs more than the 5900x here in germany (5900x = 394 euro, CB20 multicore 8500 points).
IF the rumored price is correct the 13700k will cost more than the 7700x.
i don´t compare CPU per core count, i compare them by the money i have to pay and performance. ^_^
but yes from some rumors you would expect ZEN4 to do MUCH better than raptor lake.
but i think the rumor sources i trust always said at best 35% better than ZEN3.
and i think 25-26% in cinebench20 is in line with that. maybe early sillicon, non final mainboards.
in the end it comes down to price.
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AlienALX
Well-known member
That's today's prices, right?
I am seeing £374 for the 5900x and £385 for the 12700k. I can't look at euro prices or prices in other countries mate.
However, I just go on launch prices and what is available at the time. When I bought mine for £350 the 5900x was still £450+. That is why I did it, because I could have either bought a 5900x or spent £50 more on a motherboard and go with the 12700kf. Which would not have netted me much in multi core performance but the 12700kf spanked the 5900x in games. Which was what the upgrade was about for me.
The thing is it wasn't just the CPU and board cost either. I spent £200 on a X570 TUF board and less than that on the X690 board I got. The TUF had one, maybe two NVME slots the Gigabyte has four, and the whole platform was way better than the X570 board all the way through.
Any way, enough digressing.
These CPUs won't be cheap. That is what I am getting at. AMD got pretty spoiled with high pricing and it's clear they are not going to let go of that easy. I would hazard a guess and say this CPU will easily cost as much as a 12700K and then some, and it's slower in MP performance with only about a 10% uplift over the 12700 in IPC *if* the single core clock is 5.4ghz as has been rumoured.
And that is not taking into account Raptorlake, which is a refresh right? I am pretty sure it is, not a shrink.
AlienALX
Well-known member
OK more digging. The 5700X has a TDP of 65w.
The 7700X is supposedly 20% faster than its predecessor, which is the 5700X? OK the article states the 5800x which is not quite apples for apples.
I just don't find 20-25% that impressive on a die shrink and new platform is all. Mostly because it's a die shrink. Look at the massive difference between the 12900k in IPC terms compared to the 11900. It's just as big, and was a tiny shrink.
The 12900K was 34% faster than the 11900K on 8 cores alone. That was a shrink from 14nm (HUGE!) to 10nm. AMD are now on 5nm, and from the sounds of it will be competing with a refresh of Intel's 10nm node.
Which is worrying. Mostly because if Intel get their heads into gear and manage to get down to say, 7nm and maintain clock speed (because that was what was holding them back on their shrinks) then Ryzen 5nm could be pretty poor.
I'm just doing what I always do and calling a spade a spade. I found it awful suspicious that AMD have moved the launch forward to beat Intel. Surely if they maintained their levels of confidence they have had thus far they would not have done that, and would have let Intel go first.
Just like how I have maintained that as a tech and silicon Ampere was pretty bloody awful. Which will become apparent when Nvidia release the 4000 series on TSMC. From what I am hearing a 4070ti could easily beat a 3090ti.
The 7700X is supposedly 20% faster than its predecessor, which is the 5700X? OK the article states the 5800x which is not quite apples for apples.
I just don't find 20-25% that impressive on a die shrink and new platform is all. Mostly because it's a die shrink. Look at the massive difference between the 12900k in IPC terms compared to the 11900. It's just as big, and was a tiny shrink.
The 12900K was 34% faster than the 11900K on 8 cores alone. That was a shrink from 14nm (HUGE!) to 10nm. AMD are now on 5nm, and from the sounds of it will be competing with a refresh of Intel's 10nm node.
Which is worrying. Mostly because if Intel get their heads into gear and manage to get down to say, 7nm and maintain clock speed (because that was what was holding them back on their shrinks) then Ryzen 5nm could be pretty poor.
I'm just doing what I always do and calling a spade a spade. I found it awful suspicious that AMD have moved the launch forward to beat Intel. Surely if they maintained their levels of confidence they have had thus far they would not have done that, and would have let Intel go first.
Just like how I have maintained that as a tech and silicon Ampere was pretty bloody awful. Which will become apparent when Nvidia release the 4000 series on TSMC. From what I am hearing a 4070ti could easily beat a 3090ti.
AlienALX
Well-known member
That is the one area AMD will still dominate Intel. The die sizes will be so small they can cram tons under the larger IHS.
Thing is we are now reaching the point we were at a while ago. IE, most stuff still doesn't know what to do with more than 8 cores.
I also had a think about the article too. Apparently it's 20% odd faster that a 5800x what about the 5800X3D?
The more I am seeing the more I am thinking this is going to be pretty disappointing tbh. I mean really, it seems all they have gained here is some clock speed over the 5800X3D and not much more.
AngryGoldfish
Old N Gold
I think we need to wait and see.
Besides, even if it's mainly clock speed improvements that boosts performance, as long as the TDP is not absurdly higher (which it's not, though it is higher than Zen 3) and the prices are reasonable, what difference does it make? A large clock speed improvement is a huge undertaking architecturally. Zen 2 was built on a far more important die shrink, but the clock speeds weren't astronomically higher than Zen 1. From what I'm gathering, sustainable clock speeds are higher from Zen 3 to Zen 4 than from Zen 1 to Zen 2. In other words, more of Zen 4's performance uplift is potentially coming from clock speed than Zen 2 derived from clock speeds.
Maxwell and Pascal saw much of their huge performance uplifts through clock speeds. Clock for clock, Maxwell and Pascal were not far apart. But Pascal was a huge success because it added 400-600Mhz consistently. If Zen 4 is primarily a clock speed boost with DDR5 and a few small tweaks without too many other compromises (TDP, price, heat, etc) then I'm fine with that.
As for the 5800X3D being similar in performance, I think that's fine. That's what I said last month in that big chat Alien and I had. Alien was saying that AM5/Zen 4 being DDR5-exclusive would hamper it because people wouldn't want to buy the more expensive memory and deal with the teething issues. My argument was: buy a 5800X3D because it'll probably be similar in performance while being cheaper overall and more stable.
Besides, even if it's mainly clock speed improvements that boosts performance, as long as the TDP is not absurdly higher (which it's not, though it is higher than Zen 3) and the prices are reasonable, what difference does it make? A large clock speed improvement is a huge undertaking architecturally. Zen 2 was built on a far more important die shrink, but the clock speeds weren't astronomically higher than Zen 1. From what I'm gathering, sustainable clock speeds are higher from Zen 3 to Zen 4 than from Zen 1 to Zen 2. In other words, more of Zen 4's performance uplift is potentially coming from clock speed than Zen 2 derived from clock speeds.
Maxwell and Pascal saw much of their huge performance uplifts through clock speeds. Clock for clock, Maxwell and Pascal were not far apart. But Pascal was a huge success because it added 400-600Mhz consistently. If Zen 4 is primarily a clock speed boost with DDR5 and a few small tweaks without too many other compromises (TDP, price, heat, etc) then I'm fine with that.
As for the 5800X3D being similar in performance, I think that's fine. That's what I said last month in that big chat Alien and I had. Alien was saying that AM5/Zen 4 being DDR5-exclusive would hamper it because people wouldn't want to buy the more expensive memory and deal with the teething issues. My argument was: buy a 5800X3D because it'll probably be similar in performance while being cheaper overall and more stable.
AlienALX
Well-known member
That depends how you take the article. It states that this 7700X is the replacement for the 5800X which does not make sense. Mostly because they will no doubt launch a 7800X.
The 5700X has a TDP of 65w. The 7700X has a TDP of 105w. That is over 40% more.
I don't get why they would change the naming, and why they are comparing it to a 5800X. Might be a typo, IDK.
KingNosser
Well-known member
It's a bump in performance as nice as the new things coming out are in all area's there just isn't a real need unless you haven't upgraded for a time.
I can see myself being intrested in AM5 at it's end when it's all much cheaper and also more performace than 1st gen not doing that again.
I expect we'll know everything there is to know before the end of september so it's really not far away tbh, I'd just say don't bother unless you haven't upgraded for a time you can live without the bump for a better one in 2nd or 3rd gen AM5.
I can see myself being intrested in AM5 at it's end when it's all much cheaper and also more performace than 1st gen not doing that again.
I expect we'll know everything there is to know before the end of september so it's really not far away tbh, I'd just say don't bother unless you haven't upgraded for a time you can live without the bump for a better one in 2nd or 3rd gen AM5.
AngryGoldfish
Old N Gold
Possibly because it leaves room for a 7800X3D. Rather than a 7800X and then a 7800X3D, they're calling them the 7700X and the 7800X3D for clearer segmentation. Or maybe they're binning 7700X chips and will release a higher clocked version later. Though that doesn't make a ton of sense to me since that's what the stacked cache version will effectively do.
Another possibility is the rumoured 10 core part. I can't remember whether it was debunked or not, but it was spoken of. Maybe they're holding that back in case they need to use it against Raptor Lake.
Also, what difference does it make what name they use? The 7700X is the obvious successor to the 5800X due to far more important factors—price, core count, thread count, segmentation, clock speed.
The TDP increasing on paper by 40% won't translate to 40% power consumption and heat in reality. Rated TDP is nowhere near as important as real world numbers. I shouldn't have used the word TDP in my post because it's not actually what I was referring to. I should have said heat or power draw, which are practically the same in most cases.
From what I'm looking at, the rated TDP increases are in line with the supposed performance increase from clock speed boosts and additional features.
AlienALX
Well-known member
Yeah I had a think last night. I thought they were all going to be 3d this gen.
The difference in part numbers? well I immediately thought it was the successor to the 5700X. Because, you know? logic. Shifting them around will confuse a lot of people.
They may well be saving a 7800x for Raptorlake.
The difference in part numbers? well I immediately thought it was the successor to the 5700X. Because, you know? logic. Shifting them around will confuse a lot of people.
They may well be saving a 7800x for Raptorlake.
AngryGoldfish
Old N Gold
Yeah, it confused me as well. But there's got to be a good reason for it rather than arbitrary naming.
Another thing is that Moore's Law is Dead on YouTube recently revealed that 3D cache of Zen 4 will be released in Q1 2023 and is already fully working.
AlienALX
Well-known member
Well I would imagine it should be working given the 5800X3D IMO was a test. Maybe if AL had been poor they wouldn't have launched that at all. Thing is, it's beginning to look a lot like Christmas.. No wait, brain walk
It's beginning to look a lot like the new non 3D models are going to perform around the same as the 5800X3D, albeit with better clock speeds.
So maybe they are going to save the ones worth having until after RL launches.
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