WYP
News Guru
Upcoming Windows update will boost the performance of Zen 3, 4, and 5.
Read more about AMD's Ryzen 9000 Windows update.
Read more about AMD's Ryzen 9000 Windows update.
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AMD reveals up to 13% Ryzen 9000 boost with new Windows version
- Thread starter WYP
- Start date
NeverBackDown
AMD Enthusiast
Windows strikes again
AlienALX
Active member
I don't think so.
TBH AMD should have tested all of this before launch. If this even turns out to be true (I am not so sure tbh) then it is their fault for not sorting it out with MS before launch.
I think the bottom line is.. Even if they are 13% faster than last gen then IMO it did not warrant an entire launch. Also from what I am hearing Intel's gains are far higher for Arrow Lake is it? Which is nice. We need more competition especially to bring prices down.
But yeah after watching the latest HWUB video on this? I am not so sure. Even AMD only claimed 9% which they have now dropped to 3-8%. How can you not even know your own architecture?
This may, however, explain why they were talking about the price drops so much before launch and pimping them so hard. Probably because they already knew. I mean let's face it a multi billion dollar company really should know its crap before releasing.
NeverBackDown
AMD Enthusiast
The last time AMD and MS had an issue with performance it took MS FOREVER to fix.
This isn't AMDs fault. Intel also will benefit a small amount. This is crappy MS debugging. Nobody was even aware of these issues until launch despite the fact the bug has been around for years. AMD in Intel's own Clear Linux performed flawlessly with Zen 5. In regular Linux they also crushed it. Windows has always been behind in performance. It didn't give any unexpected results.
This isn't AMDs fault. Intel also will benefit a small amount. This is crappy MS debugging. Nobody was even aware of these issues until launch despite the fact the bug has been around for years. AMD in Intel's own Clear Linux performed flawlessly with Zen 5. In regular Linux they also crushed it. Windows has always been behind in performance. It didn't give any unexpected results.
Dawelio
Active member
So I assume it's not fixed yet? Cause MS hasn't been around forever, that would pre date us as humans...
AlienALX
Active member
Of course it is. It's not up to Microsoft to spend a ton of money supporting new products. That onus falls onto the creator of the hardware to provide software to make it work.
It's the age old discussion isn't it? it doesn't matter how good your hardware is, if your drivers and software suck your product is going to suck.
Same as it is the board maker's responsibility to create a BIOS that doesn't cook your board socket, and so on.
Dicehunter
Resident Newb
It's been like this for a good few years now since Microsoft shut down most of their QA testing departments to increase profits. Banacules Nerdgasm on YouTube used to work there and talked of it a while back of how now so many bugs and errors get through the QA process as the testing process is a fraction of what it was before.
NeverBackDown
AMD Enthusiast
Ah yes hardware never changes and never needs an OS to be updated to support the hardware. It's not MS's job to provide the SOFTWARE support for the HARDWARE being used. AMD should just release products that never need any updates to software. It's like AMD released the bug in the OS and should be responsible for it.
Intel also is at fault. Once they went to big.LITTLE architecture and released it with bugs and windows not being able to figure out the scheduling of cores, Intel should hace been ashamed to release such a product without the proper support that another company is responsible for.
Hope the sarcasm is detected.
Point is it doesn't matter if these hardware makers provide the SDK and Code suggestions to MS. Microsoft is in control. They aren't and shouldn't be expected to wait until MS decides to do something.
If you really cared and wanted to blame somebody why didn't you say anything years back when the bug has been around forever? You didn't complain about performance then?
Yep. That's why MS has barely changed anything in W11. Basically a 10.5 they can't afford to do any massive changes.
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AlienALX
Active member
FFS why are you being so defensive? This is what happens when you let your love for a company get the better of you.
Microsoft did not develop Ryzen. It is AMD's product. AGESA and etc come down to them, not Microsoft. It also wasn't Microsoft's fault that the 9000 series have been universally panned by every reviewer I know. Not just once either, there have been numerous follow up videos.
This thread is not about Intel and problems with Intel. It is about AMD's crap gen. Easily THE most disappointing gen since Ryzen began.
I am fully aware Intel have 99 problems right now. However, like I said, that has nothing to do with this crap release and you know it. ALL of these issues should have been addressed BEFORE launch. But no, and here we are again with another buggy broken new product release. In fact, the very fact it was delayed speaks volumes.
I am allowed to voice my discontent. Maybe more people would, and then CPUs would not self destruct, burn holes in boards, have corroded contacts and ETC ETC ETC. If we all pretend everything is fine it won't change anything.
I hope they can get it either sorted, or, the next gen will be better. I also hope Intel will sort their crap out too, but none of that is software related any way so I don't get the similarity comparison here?
Microsoft did not develop Ryzen. It is AMD's product. AGESA and etc come down to them, not Microsoft. It also wasn't Microsoft's fault that the 9000 series have been universally panned by every reviewer I know. Not just once either, there have been numerous follow up videos.
This thread is not about Intel and problems with Intel. It is about AMD's crap gen. Easily THE most disappointing gen since Ryzen began.
I am fully aware Intel have 99 problems right now. However, like I said, that has nothing to do with this crap release and you know it. ALL of these issues should have been addressed BEFORE launch. But no, and here we are again with another buggy broken new product release. In fact, the very fact it was delayed speaks volumes.
I am allowed to voice my discontent. Maybe more people would, and then CPUs would not self destruct, burn holes in boards, have corroded contacts and ETC ETC ETC. If we all pretend everything is fine it won't change anything.
I hope they can get it either sorted, or, the next gen will be better. I also hope Intel will sort their crap out too, but none of that is software related any way so I don't get the similarity comparison here?
NeverBackDown
AMD Enthusiast
This isn't being defensive nor love for AMD, it would be the same if it was Intel. This is just being objective. Should I ask why you are being so offended by meagre game performance?
You talk it about it being AMDs problem. It's not. This isn't AGESA like you suggest or the PPM driver AMD use to schedule core parking on each CCD.This is a Windows bug. Not a hardware bug. This bug exists for both AMD and Intel. It's simple as that. Once the bug is fixed everybody benefits. It's not complicated. AMD can't be held responsible for a bug they have no control over. Voice your discontent. I'll voice the objective reasoning of these issues.
Outside of the poor gaming launch performance, the other areas such as production, AI, rendering, mathematics/science calculations, etc do have substantial improvements. Especially in regards to AVX 512. If AMD 9000 series was sooooo bad like you are complaining about, why is the issue isolated to one area of performance on a single OS?
The only thing we can fault AMD for is not being more forth coming about their in house testing process and why it was missed. If they told MS about the bug and MS ignored it, or if they genuinely missed it. If it's the former, can't blame them. The latter? Well then yes they deserve the slap on the wrist. In the end though this is not a big deal like everybody is making it out to be. For gaming anyways you'll want a 7800x3d which they already said before launch.
You talk it about it being AMDs problem. It's not. This isn't AGESA like you suggest or the PPM driver AMD use to schedule core parking on each CCD.This is a Windows bug. Not a hardware bug. This bug exists for both AMD and Intel. It's simple as that. Once the bug is fixed everybody benefits. It's not complicated. AMD can't be held responsible for a bug they have no control over. Voice your discontent. I'll voice the objective reasoning of these issues.
Outside of the poor gaming launch performance, the other areas such as production, AI, rendering, mathematics/science calculations, etc do have substantial improvements. Especially in regards to AVX 512. If AMD 9000 series was sooooo bad like you are complaining about, why is the issue isolated to one area of performance on a single OS?
The only thing we can fault AMD for is not being more forth coming about their in house testing process and why it was missed. If they told MS about the bug and MS ignored it, or if they genuinely missed it. If it's the former, can't blame them. The latter? Well then yes they deserve the slap on the wrist. In the end though this is not a big deal like everybody is making it out to be. For gaming anyways you'll want a 7800x3d which they already said before launch.
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Dicehunter
Resident Newb
Just playing devils advocate here but don't forget Intels hybrid big/little core CPU's required an entirely new operating system to function at their peak i.e Windows 11, And Microsoft worked with Intel for that very reason.
AngryGoldfish
Old N Gold
You and I spoke about this the other day as well, and I've come to agree with you. I imagine AMD had no choice but to release the product and wait for Microsoft to play catch up.
It's similar to GPUs. AMD's cards can be very powerful in raw compute numbers, but game developers often side with Nvidia and give them preferential treatment. Same goes for developers that supported AMD cards better. Sometimes a 7900XTX was noticeably faster than a 4090 despite being behind in virtually all compute metrics. That's not Nvidia's fault, nor is it AMD's fault for not being able to 'buy' game developer's toolkits so that their games run better on AMD hardware.
AlienALX
Active member
Of course dude. I think people are mistaking me criticising AMD thinking I am doing so in some sort of childish revenge for Intel lol.
If you knew me you would know I am totally brand agnostic. Which you should know, given how long I have been around here. In fact, my first post in the 13/14 series being dud was "This needs a recall, now". Long before the class action lawsuit began.
Thankfully I got away with it because I have not gone past 12 series on Intel. Heck on my AMD rig the 5700x3d was more than good enough to warrant buying into a whole new platform and memory. In fact, the fix then was simply install Windows 11. Which a lot of people whined about because they loved 10 so much.
Also remember, three of my 4 GPUs are now AMD. In fact no. One 6800XT Strix LC, one 6900XT Toxic, one 6950XT and some blue little AMD card in my NAS for encoding stuff.
The only other GPU I have now is the 770m in my NUC. I don't hate AMD, I love them. However, I don't like bad products. That said I am aware they are a share held company so I guess they had little choice. That doesn't make it any better.
The market like most others has flopped and flopped hard.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pr8JlbjoJ_g
Over ordering, over manufacturing, and share holders expecting the prices to stay as they were during the mining and covid boom. They are going to have to get real.
I have been into PCs since 1996, and the prices now are an absolute JOKE. In 2010 a top end motherboard was around £150. If that.
NeverBackDown
AMD Enthusiast
@Alien
Nobody is accusing you of being a shill or anything like that. You don't need to defend yourself. This is just an honest discussion.
You don't like how AMD has launched and are voicing your dissent. I'm not sure why everyone is hating on AMD over such a miniscule specific thing. It's just two different view points. In the end we both want it fixed. Hopefully it's soon but also hopefully pray that MS don't F up the fixes and ruin something else. Now that would be hilarious lol
@Angry
Yes it is very similar to the examples you gave. Unfortunately this just how the ecosystem has worked out. The worst part is all this money making over who to better support or buy favor with and 80% of the time it feels like we still get 50% of the performance we should coupled with awful bugs at launch. Then it takes some games months to fix and constantly apologize for just so they can do it again next time.
Nobody is accusing you of being a shill or anything like that. You don't need to defend yourself. This is just an honest discussion.
You don't like how AMD has launched and are voicing your dissent. I'm not sure why everyone is hating on AMD over such a miniscule specific thing. It's just two different view points. In the end we both want it fixed. Hopefully it's soon but also hopefully pray that MS don't F up the fixes and ruin something else. Now that would be hilarious lol
@Angry
Yes it is very similar to the examples you gave. Unfortunately this just how the ecosystem has worked out. The worst part is all this money making over who to better support or buy favor with and 80% of the time it feels like we still get 50% of the performance we should coupled with awful bugs at launch. Then it takes some games months to fix and constantly apologize for just so they can do it again next time.
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