WYP
News Guru
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AMD Delivers! Radeon's newest RDNA 3 GPUs target Nvidia's weakspots
- Thread starter WYP
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AlienALX
Well-known member
That price says "Forget me and buy a 7800XT". It is the norm these days to have nonsensical cards to butt up the higher end ones.
Indeed it does, yet, the entire gaming community would be much happier if instead, it said: Forget the 4060TI 8GB, we have more performance, same RT performance and more VRAM for the same price, and they nedded only to launch it at 399 MSRP instead of 449.
AlienALX
Well-known member
TBH at £500 the 7800XT isn't bad at all. And probably the way better purchase any way.
From the AMD slides I have seen it poos on the 4070, even with RT enabled. What I mean is yeah it doesn't quite beat the 4070 in RT but they have been very honest about it. In pure raster? it demolishes it.
Which is all any one will care about. I mean, here you have a card as fast as a 4070ti in raster at £500. £69 cheaper than a 4070.
I would imagine this is AMD's Maxwell moment I have been very hopefully waiting for.
WYP
News Guru
It is a strange GPU from AMD. CU count is not much lower than the RX 7800 XT, so compute performance does not take a huge hit. The biggest change is memory bandwidth and VRAM size.
TBH, The RX 7700 XT should be £399. Smash the 8GB RTX 4060 Ti to bits. It's too close to the RX 7800 XT, just kike the RX 7900 XT was to the XTX at launch.
AlienALX
Well-known member
It looks to me like the 7700XT is the failed dies from the 7800XT. As such? they are going to want similar prices for it. Again though, I don't even think they want you to buy the 7700XT at all.
Same reasons the 7900XT and XTX were like that, too. Because they used pretty much the same bill of materials, and would have cost AMD around the same to make.
Same reasons the 7900XT and XTX were like that, too. Because they used pretty much the same bill of materials, and would have cost AMD around the same to make.
KingNosser
Well-known member
prices are fine but 7700XT should be £400 but performance wise fairly decent but i really doubt that they will get close to my 6800XT these are not as powerful as it might seem, still a better offer overall, but this isn't the maxwell moment yet that will come with the 9k series when they go full blown chiplet and if they pull it off Nvidia imho has no chance if they stay monolithic.
Still if i didnt have a decent card the 7800XT would be the current gen pick but it's going to be slightly under a 6800XT all be it maybe very similar DXR performance since this gen is boosted.
I'll be interested to see where these sit with last gen cards more than other brands like 7800XT vs 6800 as same amount of CU's would show the real gain.
Still if i didnt have a decent card the 7800XT would be the current gen pick but it's going to be slightly under a 6800XT all be it maybe very similar DXR performance since this gen is boosted.
I'll be interested to see where these sit with last gen cards more than other brands like 7800XT vs 6800 as same amount of CU's would show the real gain.
AlienALX
Well-known member
No offence here, but I am getting tired of this.
All of a sudden we have millions of armchair critics who think things should be certain prices, yet don't have a clue.
Cards are priced on a business model, not our hopes dreams and opinions. People really need to take this in. Just because influencers say that every card that has launched in ages is not worth buying it does not make it true. People still need to buy GPUs if they are gaming on computers, and comments like that are not helpful to any one.
And that is coming from me, the king of pessimism. At the end of the day you have to stop whining about what you think things are worth and pay up.
If you missed the memo? the 7700XT is the same die layout as the 7800XT. Meaning basically? it is a failed 7800XT die and thus cost AMD the exact same to produce. It is a bit of a weird choice to reduce the ram speed and bandwidth and the price literally accordingly, and it is also weird they are going to be very close in performance terms, but at the end of the day it is what it is.
You also need to factor in another important fact. The 77 is a custom "No MBA" model. Now what AMD could have done was an Nvidia, and said "F the board partners ! RRP $400 !" and then screwed them. But they have not. For the 77 they need to design their own PCBs, their own tooling, their own coolers and so on. And, sadly they need to make a profit on that. And those are the 3 reasons why it is what it is.
However. I have said it everywhere else, and I will say it here too. If you have $450 to spend on a GPU you will spend $500. And I know this may be a deliberate ploy to make you spend the extra $50, but holy crap do you get a lot more for it. More VRAM, faster VRAM, more CUs and so on. It is a much better card for $50 extra.
When was the last time you could spend just $50 more on an Nvidia card and get all that? never.
I also think people need to remember things like inflation, part prices and so on. It has all gone up across the board. Remember MS said the Xbox was going up in price? well these cost around the same as a console, which is how it has always beem. A good midrange GPU has always cost about the same as a console.
TBH I think with Starfield included the 7800XT is going to be an absolutely killer card. And people need to stop whining and just roll with it.
AngryGoldfish
Old N Gold
These seem good to me.
Yeah, $400 for the 7700XT makes more sense in terms of ideal consumer segmentation, but the market is strange these days with past generations being so competitive, so segmentation in terms of finances is tricky. Realistically, what's the point of a card that's perfectly situated between the 7600 and 7800XT, since you could argue that a 6800 already exists there? That's a great GPU still to this day, and there's quite a few available globally. The 6700XT also is quite good still and is below $400.
I think part of the reason why the 7900XT was so poorly priced was, in part, what Alien said about die construction, but also because they needed to sell the 6950XT off. Now that stock is drying up of that particular tier of graphics from RDNA2, the 7900XT has dropped to where it should have launched at. I'm quite confident that the 7700XT will drop in price over the next six months. Meaning RDNA3 would end up actually pretty decent across the board. It would take time, but that's the post pandemic/post mining boom for you.
Yeah, $400 for the 7700XT makes more sense in terms of ideal consumer segmentation, but the market is strange these days with past generations being so competitive, so segmentation in terms of finances is tricky. Realistically, what's the point of a card that's perfectly situated between the 7600 and 7800XT, since you could argue that a 6800 already exists there? That's a great GPU still to this day, and there's quite a few available globally. The 6700XT also is quite good still and is below $400.
I think part of the reason why the 7900XT was so poorly priced was, in part, what Alien said about die construction, but also because they needed to sell the 6950XT off. Now that stock is drying up of that particular tier of graphics from RDNA2, the 7900XT has dropped to where it should have launched at. I'm quite confident that the 7700XT will drop in price over the next six months. Meaning RDNA3 would end up actually pretty decent across the board. It would take time, but that's the post pandemic/post mining boom for you.
AlienALX
Well-known member
I had a brief look earlier and you can still buy pretty much any 6000 series apart from the 6900XT, which was probably totally binned when they came up with the 6950XT.
So all of the holes in the 7000 series lineup are all completely filled by the 6000 series. I mean heck, it is a bit of a conspiracy theory but for all we know they could still be making 6000 series cards. Why? because the latest dies are very expensive, and older ones get cheaper. Much cheaper. It has been my biggest criticism when people expect a shrink every two years. They don't realise the horrific cost of it and expect prices to be the same.
Since Pascal we have seen a GPU revolution. That has moved very, very quickly. I think both companies are now slowing it down big time. What is the point? Nvidia would only be competing with themselves and AMD rumoured recently that the 8000 series would contain no high end GPUs. At all, just mid range stuff.
With the event of FSR 3 and their own frame gen people can hold onto their old cards for much longer. Which I think is what they want right now. They don't want to keep piling things up on shelves.
But yeah, 7800XT a few % faster than 6800XT yet £150 cheaper and then you have nothing at all between the 7800XT and the 7900XT.... Except the £600 6950XT which sits bang smack in the middle in price, performance and everything else.
KingNosser
Well-known member
Well I do understand the prices wasn't so different with the 6800XT vs 6800 and true they all slot in, it's just my personal feelings if i was buying or recommending to family friend, I honestly feel that the 7700XT will drop to £400, I know they still have stock of 6k series and so I also expect they don't want to mass sell or mass produce and end up in the same boat as now.
I think they are both decent cards thou can't expect wonders everytime and as you said better than rebrands, but for me with FSR3 now the 9k series is where i'm heading gives me plenty of time to save for the top card and clear some debts, done spending on storage now took a while to gain it all but i'm happy with the outcome, the HBA card hasn't skipped a beat.
I still expect that the 8k series will maybe have the stack with the new die being the top and the older cards rebranded or simply left out, but come 9k with the design they had in mind once tinkered with and if it works is going to be very good.
I'm looking forward to FSR3 for certain games generally i'm fine but a few are harder to run even on my card.
These are good offerings, my main point on price is 4gb less vram and less CU's to me if i was buying then of course I'd go for the 7800XT and in truth most all will so the 7700XT is going to slowly sell at a lower price in time, but there maybe they don't have many dies that need the defects cut so it somewhat makes sense, but like the 6800 vx XT the price gap is slight for the difference it's not so much the CU's but that extra vram would sure help in some games it's very clear.
I think they are both decent cards thou can't expect wonders everytime and as you said better than rebrands, but for me with FSR3 now the 9k series is where i'm heading gives me plenty of time to save for the top card and clear some debts, done spending on storage now took a while to gain it all but i'm happy with the outcome, the HBA card hasn't skipped a beat.
I still expect that the 8k series will maybe have the stack with the new die being the top and the older cards rebranded or simply left out, but come 9k with the design they had in mind once tinkered with and if it works is going to be very good.
I'm looking forward to FSR3 for certain games generally i'm fine but a few are harder to run even on my card.
These are good offerings, my main point on price is 4gb less vram and less CU's to me if i was buying then of course I'd go for the 7800XT and in truth most all will so the 7700XT is going to slowly sell at a lower price in time, but there maybe they don't have many dies that need the defects cut so it somewhat makes sense, but like the 6800 vx XT the price gap is slight for the difference it's not so much the CU's but that extra vram would sure help in some games it's very clear.
KingNosser
Well-known member
The sensible head would have sold my 6800XT when i got it, but there it was a prize and like they say don't look a gift horse in the mouth, but I'd have been able to buy three of them now.
When I upgrade in time, most of my gear is going to my nephew he has 5 kids 3 from past and 2 new, he just can't afford stuff atm in general.
Thing with the 6k series is they are so good why would you buy anything else unless the newer top two just the best value on the market atm.
But the 9k series has me very interested again as does zen5 but until i have a card that needs the upgrade i'm leaving the PC as is cause a full reinstall is going to be a nightmare and like they say if it's not broken don't fix it.
last nvme drive i'll install tomoz after that no slots of any kind and really atm just the other 2 nvme's in time will get upgraded, the 2tb i got last night was an absolute steal.
I'm not getting over excited with FSR3 but hopefully in the few games where i really would make use of it it'll work well.
When I upgrade in time, most of my gear is going to my nephew he has 5 kids 3 from past and 2 new, he just can't afford stuff atm in general.
Thing with the 6k series is they are so good why would you buy anything else unless the newer top two just the best value on the market atm.
But the 9k series has me very interested again as does zen5 but until i have a card that needs the upgrade i'm leaving the PC as is cause a full reinstall is going to be a nightmare and like they say if it's not broken don't fix it.
last nvme drive i'll install tomoz after that no slots of any kind and really atm just the other 2 nvme's in time will get upgraded, the 2tb i got last night was an absolute steal.
I'm not getting over excited with FSR3 but hopefully in the few games where i really would make use of it it'll work well.
AlienALX
Well-known member
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puF1pgLv1pc&t=266s
Without RT, if AMD's benchmarks are to be believed, the 7800XT is 17% faster than the 6800XT whilst costing $150 less.
Which makes it 1-2% slower than a 6950XT, meaning it is as fast as the 4070Ti costing $300 more.
If this all adds up? this is the best release since Pascal on any GPU. Because it is cheaper than the last gen, and faster.
Without RT, if AMD's benchmarks are to be believed, the 7800XT is 17% faster than the 6800XT whilst costing $150 less.
Which makes it 1-2% slower than a 6950XT, meaning it is as fast as the 4070Ti costing $300 more.
If this all adds up? this is the best release since Pascal on any GPU. Because it is cheaper than the last gen, and faster.
