AMD claims that "Big Navi" will be their "halo product"

[AngryGoldfish]

I don't like AMD's marketing department. They end up saying all sorts of hype things and then engineers can't deliver. And then they spend time trying to match their big mouths instead of optimizing things that actually increase performance. Remember that boost graph AMD engineer drew before launch? Or drivers for example.

Other companies also say absolute rubbish but at least their products deliver advertised performance.

Saying the "Halo" product is a bit too much. Halo products are balls to the wall, cutting edge products that defy any reason. Rampage Extreme, RTX Titan. At those realms, there is no common sense, prices lose all meaning. Other reports say that Big Navi will be up to 2080 Ti performance. That is not a Halo product... They could have called 5700XT or Radeon 7 a halo product because it was the fastest thing they made.

If they had something that would compete with 3080 Ti or Titan (another version) I wouldn't mind them calling it a Halo product. But Nvidia has so powerful GPUs above mere mortal market that they can just pull one and rename it.

A good thing is that they will aim a bit higher. Having only one green card that beats your product is much more than having 4. Also, by having stronger AMD cards near the top there will be competition, and prices will be more tolerable. So where most of us dwell there will be more choices. That is good.

I understand that they are hyped and that they want to show how they have powerful cards, but don't oversell it. It is a question will you beat Nvidia's 2-year-old 2080 Ti and that is not even the most powerful GPU they have, and you are talking about Halo products. Be smart and focus on what you have better than the competition. Why would someone who buys cards in performance range between 2060 and 2080 choose your card over the green team's? That is where your strength is.

A halo product is not necessarily a 'god-like' product that angelically curb stomps the competition. It usually signifies a product that will spin off into multiple areas and act as a umbrella flagship for the companies' roadmap. AMD makes products that AMD can make, not what Nvidia can make.

AMD have obviously hyped their products. What do you think they're going to do?

"Hey, so, we have this product that's, like, decent, I guess... so... kinda buy it for us so we don't go bankrupt. Tanks guyz! But you don't HAVE to. Just TRY to."

They're going to hype their products whether they're competitive or not. Silicon manufacturing isn't a short term thing. When Bulldozer failed, AMD couldn't not advertise their product. And neither could they conjure up a quick successor. When they started work on Fiji and Vega, they weren't thinking to themselves, 'This is gonna suck, we won't be able to advertise this.' They did what they could with what they could. Probably years into the design, maybe they realised it wasn't going to be a massive success. They sold as many as they could and waited for the next architecture to see if that was any better. Companies do this all the time. Every car that Ford manufactures isn't a Fiesta. If a car they manufacture isn't a runaway success, are they just gonna stick it in the stack and hope someone buys an unknown product, or maybe even just throw hundreds of millions away because reviews might be bad? Or are they gonna advertise it and hype it in the hopes that it'll at least recoup its losses?

Ultimately, consumers can choose whether they buy a mediocre product or not.

 

[NeverBackDown]

I just personally think it will be competitive performance wise with Turing. But Ampere will probably just pull ahead again. Though AMD will be closer now than they were a few years ago on matching Nvidia.

 

[grec]

Ultimately with the two comparison points both being big unknowns we can't say, but I do agree the only way AMD could truly take the crown is if NVidia underestimated them and AMD had a lot of low hanging fruit ready to pick and some big changes with RDNA2, which is a very unlikely, but not impossible scenario.

However, it's currently easy to see how they could have likely matched a 2080Ti even if they'd just made a 64CU RDNA1 card, had yields allowed them to then. So given that they could still set a very high bar going from there, I think we're going to see them the closest they've been at the top end since, maybe the GTX780Ti/290X?

 

[Dicehunter]

I have money ready but I'm not doing the same mistake and buying on launch day like I did with Vega 64 or Radeon 7, Waiting a month or 2 for drivers to stabilize.

 

[AlienALX]

A halo product is not necessarily a 'god-like' product that angelically curb stomps the competition. It usually signifies a product that will spin off into multiple areas and act as a umbrella flagship for the companies' roadmap. AMD makes products that AMD can make, not what Nvidia can make.

AMD have obviously hyped their products. What do you think they're going to do?

"Hey, so, we have this product that's, like, decent, I guess... so... kinda buy it for us so we don't go bankrupt. Tanks guyz! But you don't HAVE to. Just TRY to."

They're going to hype their products whether they're competitive or not. Silicon manufacturing isn't a short term thing. When Bulldozer failed, AMD couldn't not advertise their product. And neither could they conjure up a quick successor. When they started work on Fiji and Vega, they weren't thinking to themselves, 'This is gonna suck, we won't be able to advertise this.' They did what they could with what they could. Probably years into the design, maybe they realised it wasn't going to be a massive success. They sold as many as they could and waited for the next architecture to see if that was any better. Companies do this all the time. Every car that Ford manufactures isn't a Fiesta. If a car they manufacture isn't a runaway success, are they just gonna stick it in the stack and hope someone buys an unknown product, or maybe even just throw hundreds of millions away because reviews might be bad? Or are they gonna advertise it and hype it in the hopes that it'll at least recoup its losses?

Ultimately, consumers can choose whether they buy a mediocre product or not.

Indeedy. Halo products are for marketing. It really is as simple as that. When Nvidia make Titans they don't expect to sell them in huge numbers. What they do expect is love it or hate it it gets people talking, and they will then usually buy a product lower in the stack.

Nvidia and AMD have not paid for advertising in many, many years. They do that themselves. Same for Apple. They just come up with something that makes no sense, gets people talking and it reaches those who are going to buy. Even if you have to p*ss people off to do that they won't care, as word spreads. Eventually it spreads to the fans, who lap it all up.

I read an article yesterday that I can not post here because of the site hosting it, but it said what massive gains AMD had made in the GPU share market. I don't mean like, cash shares I mean like a land grab. Sure, the 7 is a dog but they don't give a toss as that isn't the card people will buy. They will buy a 570, 580 or Navi.

This whole RDNA 2 being as fast as the 2080Ti? that is by chance, not by competition. If they really cared and wanted to compete that badly they'd have done it ages ago. Once again, AMD came along with a decent reasonably priced product in Navi and it's done well for them.

It just so happens that it may be as fast as a 2080Ti, or even a bit faster. No doubt Nvidia will come along and smash up their plan but it won't stop the card selling. Not if it is the right price.

In 7 years AMD has shipped half a billion GPUs. Might not be as much as Nvidia, but still more than enough to keep them well and truly in business.

 

[grec]

Nvidia and AMD have not paid for advertising in many, many years. They do that themselves. Same for Apple. They just come up with something that makes no sense, gets people talking and it reaches those who are going to buy. Even if you have to p*ss people off to do that they won't care, as word spreads. Eventually it spreads to the fans, who lap it all up.

I agree with much of your post, but you should not underestimate how much money these companies pump into advertising, for companies like Apple and Intel you could say it is the crux of all their success. Intel spent almost $1Billion on advertising last year, a couple of years ago Apple spent $1.8Bn in a year. Without advertising companies like this would have to fight a fair game on tech, and they'd likely lose. Can you imagine where Intel would be if the OEM market could actually exist with free market competition? Rather than an essential Intel forced monopoly?

It's a bit different for companies like NVidia and AMD of course as the GPU market only has two options anyway, but they still spend many tens of millions a year on advertising.