Watercooling vs Aircooling

[ruairi.C]

This is a weird question and I understand it is difficult to answer. But for processors, how much of a difference is there in ability to overclock with aircooling opposed to watercooling. So a quick scenario, how much further would you be able to take a processor with say a noctua NH_D14 w/ 3fans (opposed to the original 2) compared to a 60mm thick 240mm rad in push pull.

I understand it all depends on the processor/chipset etc but with the clock speeds I see people get with each it makes me wonder if watercooling is really all about the aesthetics because massive heatsinks aren't attractive to some people.

I understand this may be very difficult/impossible to answer but if you can do your best it would be greatly appreciated.

I'm basically looking to know how significant the difference in clock speeds could be with the 2 cooling methods I've stated below. Would the difference be notable enough to make up for the big cost difference or is more about aesthetics. Would the difference in overclock you could achieve be very significant or not really?

 

[kilobravo]

You can take your oc a little bit further with watercooling.If you want a 24/7 oc,i would say up to 0.5ghz more headroom,depending what cpu you are oc`ing.

 

[Master&Puppet]

Yea up to 0.5 seems reasonable but also water cooling can make for a noticeably more quiet rig but I think water cooling comes into its own when you cool two or more components, again getting better temps and noise, but also being very efficient with space and getting a striking look.

 

[airdeano]

long answer

welcome to the forum,
not really that wierd of a question. its mentioned daily. there are a lot of air-cooling builds converting
to water-cooling and vica-versa water-cooling builds going to air. why? several factors come to mind.
cost, what does the rig really cost and what's its purpose? maintenence is another factor, as is been
there, done that, now i've got the t-shirt... wanting something different. and lastly, would be the
performance level and how long it can achive that level over the other.

as said before, different CPU packages do well on air and not as-well on water-cooling. some are fair
on air and when water-cooled can just have amazing performance boost. but mostly water-cooling is a
look, a first impression of a build and some art works of art. the last 10% would be for performance,
getting the last n'th of speed for bragging, validation, or usable application gains or gaming situations.

on my last build i went a whole bunch of routes to see what was the better in performance and looks:
i5-2550k/EVGA SLI/8GB RAM
4.8GHz 1.39vcore loaded 98° ambient 30° Cooler Master 212+ $15
4.8GHz 1.39vcore loaded 89° ambient 29° Noctua NH-D14 $65
4.8GHz 1.39vcore loaded 83° ambient 28° Corsair H100 (perf - push fan) $85
4.8GHz 1.39vcore loaded 79° ambient 29° Corsair H100 (perf - push/pull fan) $105
4.8GHz 1.39vcore loaded 63° ambient 30° XSPC RASA RS240 (push fan) $150
4.8GHz 1.39vcore loaded 60° ambient 32° XSPC RASA RS240 (push/pull fan) $180
4.8GHz 1.39vcore loaded 58° ambient 28° XSPC RASA RX240 (push fan) $240
4.8GHz 1.39vcore loaded 54° ambient 31° XSPC RASA RX240 (push/pull fan) $ 300

the dollar amounts on the end of each data point is cooler cost. some was used and some was
purchased new. so with all this data, i've gone from a non-usable clock on air to a usable 274/7 usable
CPU clock. now the air clocks could come to 4.5 and stay 60ish in temperatures. is there a difference in
3.0Ghz? in some applications, yes, most nahhh.

conclusion, today i like the water-cooling builds. in the future, i might move back to air-cooling or
whatever else might be available.
hope this sheds some light on your debate and i hope i didn't muddy the water too much!

airdeano

 

[blair]

I mainly watercool just for the quietness I can game now and basically cant even hear my rig and its 2 feet from me, and when it idle you have to put your head within 30cm to hear it.

 

[ruairi.C]

welcome to the forum,
not really that wierd of a question. its mentioned daily. there are a lot of air-cooling builds converting
to water-cooling and vica-versa water-cooling builds going to air. why? several factors come to mind.
cost, what does the rig really cost and what's its purpose? maintenence is another factor, as is been
there, done that, now i've got the t-shirt... wanting something different. and lastly, would be the
performance level and how long it can achive that level over the other.

as said before, different CPU packages do well on air and not as-well on water-cooling. some are fair
on air and when water-cooled can just have amazing performance boost. but mostly water-cooling is a
look, a first impression of a build and some art works of art. the last 10% would be for performance,
getting the last n'th of speed for bragging, validation, or usable application gains or gaming situations.

on my last build i went a whole bunch of routes to see what was the better in performance and looks:
i5-2550k/EVGA SLI/8GB RAM
4.8GHz 1.39vcore loaded 98° ambient 30° Cooler Master 212+ $15
4.8GHz 1.39vcore loaded 89° ambient 29° Noctua NH-D14 $65
4.8GHz 1.39vcore loaded 83° ambient 28° Corsair H100 (perf - push fan) $85
4.8GHz 1.39vcore loaded 79° ambient 29° Corsair H100 (perf - push/pull fan) $105
4.8GHz 1.39vcore loaded 63° ambient 30° XSPC RASA RS240 (push fan) $150
4.8GHz 1.39vcore loaded 60° ambient 32° XSPC RASA RS240 (push/pull fan) $180
4.8GHz 1.39vcore loaded 58° ambient 28° XSPC RASA RX240 (push fan) $240
4.8GHz 1.39vcore loaded 54° ambient 31° XSPC RASA RX240 (push/pull fan) $ 300

the dollar amounts on the end of each data point is cooler cost. some was used and some was
purchased new. so with all this data, i've gone from a non-usable clock on air to a usable 274/7 usable
CPU clock. now the air clocks could come to 4.5 and stay 60ish in temperatures. is there a difference in
3.0Ghz? in some applications, yes, most nahhh.

conclusion, today i like the water-cooling builds. in the future, i might move back to air-cooling or
whatever else might be available.
hope this sheds some light on your debate and i hope i didn't muddy the water too much!

airdeano

thanks man really appreciate it

 

[jamesriley94]

I'm quite interested in a few things here too...

I know all round, you get cooler temperatures, and quieter rigs, but lets take Ivybridge for example.

Due to the massive leap, you can have a 3570k, or 3770k at 4.5ghz comfortably with a D14 at 5v. Due to the big leap up in voltages and temps after this it doesnt seem to make sense to me to justify watercooling. Anyway, they're just my thoughts, now questions.

You say in the OP and the first couple of comments how much more of an OC are you able to get. And lets also take your 2550k for example. 1.39v by that, I'm guessing that's the highest voltage you're happy to put through the chip? If the D14 can handle that comfortably then whys there the need to watercool? Or with water, does the threshold increase so you can increase the volts more to get a higher OC. I'm talking about before you'd experience degradation, not before temps become an issue.

I'm curious about this, because my 3770k runs comfortably on 4.6ghz at 1.255v. But to get to 4.7ghz, I have to go above 1.35 which I'm not so comfortable with for a 24/7 OC. But would this change, and could I raise the voltage over 1.35v for 24/7 if I were to watercool it? If so, why does that happen?
Thanks

 

[Master&Puppet]

I'll let you know when I OC mine at the weekend once I've finally got my water cooling all together!

In the meantime I expect to get around 4.8-4.9 with my setup...but that is a 'feeling' based on what I've been playing around with so far.

Generally you are looking at 0.2GHz more for WC on IB because - as you said - when water cooling comes into its own the chip screws it up by not getting rid of the heat.

That's quite an investment just for a CPU loop is what I'm saying. H100 would probably be the best bet imo.

 

[leejc73]

Do you think the inability of the chip to get rid of the heat created could be down to the change in manufacturing process by Intel regarding the mounting of the heat spreader?
I've read a lot about these ivybridge cores running more comfortably post work on the heat spreader (removal/re-tim/straight to cores cooling) I don't recommend any of these just made me wonder, and we all expected the ivybridge chips to run cooler, which I agree they do below this fairly consistent wall but above it's almost as if you get thermal runaway.

I know Hardware Monitor isn't an exact science but I would be interested to know what power the 3 series are pulling when they do ramp up in temp. I've seen the sandy hit 110+ watts regularly during prime runs and it doesn't appear to have a problem getting rid of the excessive heat.

 

[SmoulderingCircuits]

Yea up to 0.5 seems reasonable but also water cooling can make for a noticeably more quiet rig but I think water cooling comes into its own when you cool two or more components, again getting better temps and noise, but also being very efficient with space and getting a striking look.

I disagree, you just swap fan noise for pump noise.

 

[airdeano]

I disagree, you just swap fan noise for pump noise.

i'll have to disagree with you..

my D5 is a quite puppy.. no hum or buzz. all i have is air noise that is low and "whispy"
at 1-meter is not detectable. once all the air is bled and the pump is mounted properly
it shouldn't be all that noisey.

airdeano

 

[blair]

I disagree, you just swap fan noise for pump noise.

My D5 pump is about the same noise as an 18Db fan on 60% fan speed, plus when gaming the pump doesnt get faster where as heatsinks normally do ramp up the fan speed, so maybe same noise at idle but when under load watercooling is way quieter.

 

[Master&Puppet]

I disagree, you just swap fan noise for pump noise.

I have to disagree too I'm afraid! My PSU was louder than my last pump (XSPC 750). Again, a couple of metres away and the whole thing was as good as inaudible.

If pumps are set up in correctly and not bled or mounted properly then sure, they can be louder.

 

[SmoulderingCircuits]

I have to disagree too I'm afraid! My PSU was louder than my last pump (XSPC 750). Again, a couple of metres away and the whole thing was as good as inaudible.

If pumps are set up in correctly and not bled or mounted properly then sure, they can be louder.

I was referring to just the WC loop components or heatsink components. My PSU is also louder than my D14.

 

[SmoulderingCircuits]

My D5 pump is about the same noise as an 18Db fan on 60% fan speed, plus when gaming the pump doesnt get faster where as heatsinks normally do ramp up the fan speed, so maybe same noise at idle but when under load watercooling is way quieter.

My D14 is at max speed constantly and always quieter than the quiet ambient noise.

 

[Josh Weston]

My D14 is at max speed constantly and always quieter than the quiet ambient noise.

I want your 'D14.

 

[airdeano]

My D14 is at max speed constantly and always quieter than the quiet ambient noise.

its not about the noise for me...
im a D14 fan as well, but it cannot hold a comfortable 4.8 overclock @ 62° with a
28° ambient.. it will hold it @ 80° but no headroom.. so if temperature is the guide
then the D14 would be a 4.3 clock @ 64° as the h20 4.8 @ 64°. in video rendering
thats a lot on a sandy bridge... just saying. i have been on both isles.

airdeano

I want your 'D14.

my D14 was monster quite. had to verify 12-volts to it several times because of its quiteness
never had a lick of problem from any noctua product. some i hear their loud or a clicking noise
is heard.. @12-volt nearly silent @ 7-volt other thinkgs are deffo louder..

 

[Josh Weston]

Mine's very loud at 12v. It's that darn 140mm fan - it's like a jet engine to me.

 

[airdeano]

Mine's very loud at 12v. It's that darn 140mm fan - it's like a jet engine to me.

a couple of things come to mind, verify the hasp hanger isn't in a bind while
holding the fan onto the CPU cooler stack. another is the silicone strip isn't
poking into the fan cavity, when the fan is removed from the stack, is it as loud
outside the case and it was inside?

airdeano

 

[Josh Weston]

Yeah, the fan is just as loud out as it is in.
I had bought a separate 140mm fan with the intention of using it as a side fan - it was far too loud there also.