Watercooling Advice

[NeverBackDown]

So been looking into some real kits lately ever since WYP posted about EK's new P line kits, however noticing that while they are great, are nearly the same price as the X line(extreme line) and for a 360 kit, was nearly $400. I came across there L line series and for a 360 is only $250.. safe to say much much cheaper and XSPC kits don't offer any pump/res kits in this price range, which I need since i have no drive bays. So they seem to be my only option. The L series are cheaper since it uses a weaker DDC pump and smaller res, whereas the P/X use D5's/taller res.

What is the big concern to me is the L kit pump. EK-XRES 100 DDC MX 3.1 PWM combo, which is more than enough for the CPU only loop, however if I ever added say another Rad or GPU block, would it still be enough? I have the room in the Define S for two 360's(tight fight but both are thinner rads). I wouldn't really ever go above a single CPU/GPU loop so that is as much as I would push it. However currently I won't be off the bat adding more blocks or rads, that will have to wait. It would just be a CPU only loop for a while. I don't see the point in putting the fury x in the loop when I plan on selling it soon for Polaris GPUs. I'd just like to know if I have the expandability option of using the slightly weaker DDC pump in a bigger loop or if the extra price increase would be worth it for the stronger pump. However at that rate I could probably custom pick the parts and get it cheaper I'd assume.

If more info is needed just let me know!
Thanks in advance

 

[Tolemac]

This is my own personal opinion here mate, I would personally go down the D5 Vario route as they are extremely reliable. Have you worked out the costs for the parts just to watercool your CPU?. The reason I am asking this is because I went with the XSPC raystorm 240 kit and ended up changing the pump and res for a D5 pump and res. My advice here would be gather the parts individually rather than a kit as you will always want to change it .

 

[NeverBackDown]

From what I understand both DDC's and D5's are reliable, it's just one vibrates more than the other while being smaller(correct me if i am wrong!). However in these kits, one just so happens to be weaker than the other(by design). I don't have a bias as to which one as I know most people say get the D5, but I couldn't find out if the one in the P series was a vario unit. I definitely wouldn't need that much flow rate for such a simple loop and if I did opt for a D5 it's pretty much vario version or DDC.

I did look at XSPC as I said in the OP. To get the Photon kit(one with res/pump combo), even the Ex/RX 240 ones are at best prices I can find, $60 more expensive as well as having a smaller rad. But they do come with a D5 so I guess it would be worth it.. funds are a factor for me and ideally if I can get by just fine with the EK and DDC kit i'd opt for that.

As to getting it separately, i tried that and it's much more expensive unfortunately

Do you have any opinions on whether the DDC would be more than capable is where I am trying to get at I suppose. If not, then I could try to save more money but we all know that usually ends up getting spent somewhere else

 

[TPC]

A DC-LT pump would be strong enough for a cpu+gpu loop.
And yes water-cooling is well expensive you won't get it much cheaper than any of these kits. Which I find ridiculous because you could get a car for what I would spend but that's a story for another day.

 

[NeverBackDown]

A DC-LT pump would be strong enough for a cpu+gpu loop.
And yes water-cooling is well expensive you won't get it much cheaper than any of these kits. Which I find ridiculous because you could get a car for what I would spend but that's a story for another day.

Ah ok well thank you! I can look at the specs of both but I have nothing to base the figures off of so it's just numbers when I look at it. Now I know the DDC's specs are enough

And yes it's very expensive. Such a shame as they really could play into the "premium" AIO price market(as they keep getting more expensive) and could easily sway people into going for the real thing
I don't see how you could spend that much

 

[Tolemac]

Tbh I don't know much about the DDC pumps i.e. noise level, reliability etc I have had my D5 for over a year now and it's still going strong I did plan to water block my Vapor X but the only waterblock I can find is the Alphacool one. So I will wait until I upgrade my GPU and then water block it with another 240 mm rad.

 

[SuB]

Vote for D5's here, had em for years they're just so reliable. Vario's the way to go a DDC will handle a CPU+GPU loop just fine, but I have no data or experience for their reliability, I just know that D5's are le-epic

 

[Warchild]

I had a DDC 3.1 and it handled 2 GPUs, CPU, 2 rads and lots of fittings but had to work hard for it. Based on that I was skeptical if one was enough to have.

Vario D5 or MCP35X are the way to go. Benefit on the MCP is that it is PWM and fully controllable via some fan controller like aquaaero XT5/6.

checkout martinslab and it will give you an idea of how much PSI you need. Basically they list what PSI each component/fitting will add to the loop so once you total up what is in your system, you can calculate what pump you need or how many.

Now im using 2 MCP 35X pumps on 30% pwm and its completely silent and still giving good flow. about 1GPM which is all I need.

 

[JR23]

It's not that DDC's are less powerful than D5's, infact i'm sure the one your looking at would handle everything you every want to do with it. The big difference is size, noise and heat. DDC's are comparatively tiny so great for SFF builds, however a standard DDC-1T being fed 12V will spin at something insane like 5000RPM and that's just annoyingly loud. They don't take to kindly to being undervolted and that can cause them to fail, but there are PWM versions which are epic. The DDC EK use in their MX has a different open vein impeller and is probably one of the queitest, for a small loop they are great. The last big difference to consider is heat, I know this sounds strange but obviously pumps use power and that has to be rejected as heat. D5's reject it into the coolant very effectively, partly why they are so reliable whereas DDC's rely on air cooling to extent so if you have poor airflow around it then definitely get a heatsink (they look awesome too).

In short PWM DDC's are really good for small builds, avoid the standard ones they are just loud and sketchy to undervolt and D5 Vario's are insanely awesome at being powerful, reliable and controllable when space doesn't matter.

JR

 

[NeverBackDown]

I stand corrected on everyones recommendatiom for the D5s. For good reason though

It's not that DDC's are less powerful than D5's, infact i'm sure the one your looking at would handle everything you every want to do with it. The big difference is size, noise and heat. DDC's are comparatively tiny so great for SFF builds, however a standard DDC-1T being fed 12V will spin at something insane like 5000RPM and that's just annoyingly loud. They don't take to kindly to being undervolted and that can cause them to fail, but there are PWM versions which are epic. The DDC EK use in their MX has a different open vein impeller and is probably one of the queitest, for a small loop they are great. The last big difference to consider is heat, I know this sounds strange but obviously pumps use power and that has to be rejected as heat. D5's reject it into the coolant very effectively, partly why they are so reliable whereas DDC's rely on air cooling to extent so if you have poor airflow around it then definitely get a heatsink (they look awesome too).

In short PWM DDC's are really good for small builds, avoid the standard ones they are just loud and sketchy to undervolt and D5 Vario's are insanely awesome at being powerful, reliable and controllable when space doesn't matter.

JR

Thank you for the in depth answer!
I definitely have enough airflow in my case so that wouldn't be an issue. I also have the space for even a D5, but if as you say, the DDC is still strong enough for my needs then I'd rather save the money as a D5 would never really be used to its full extent with my setup.

With the pump question answered, is there any tips on building a loop for easier bleeding, draining, etc? That's kinda my biggest concern with water cooling. I got everything else down but just not how to design/set up the loop for easier maintenance later

 

[Mysterae]

Another recommendation for the D5, especially the Aqua Computer USB version - integrates with the Aquaero seamlessly.

It's quite handy having a pump that is powerful at max rpm even though you wouldn't run it at that 24/7 - handy in that it can drive out stubborn air pockets or bubbles, flush your system quicker and is a good leak tester. I run the pump at 100% when leak testing for a good while; if it survives that without issues, 50% will be no trouble.

 

[NeverBackDown]

Another recommendation for the D5, especially the Aqua Computer USB version - integrates with the Aquaero seamlessly.

It's quite handy having a pump that is powerful at max rpm even though you wouldn't run it at that 24/7 - handy in that it can drive out stubborn air pockets or bubbles, flush your system quicker and is a good leak tester. I run the pump at 100% when leak testing for a good while; if it survives that without issues, 50% will be no trouble.

That's a good point, unfortunately it only comes with a DDC in the kit though and is the cheapest kit I can find. Heck it's even cheaper than getting parts separately! I'd like the power of the D5's, but seeing as I would never use it to it's full potential it does kinda seem like a waste for me. You do have a solid point however with bleeding a system. It would be much faster with a stronger pump. Thanks for input though! Really appreciate all the help

Do you(or anyone else) by the way have any tips on loop design for easier/more convenient ways to bleed/drain a loop? Should I have a disconnect(from koolance I think it was?) somewhere near the pump for easier draining? Or would that make it to restrictive?

 

[Warchild]

That's a good point, unfortunately it only comes with a DDC in the kit though and is the cheapest kit I can find. Heck it's even cheaper than getting parts separately! I'd like the power of the D5's, but seeing as I would never use it to it's full potential it does kinda seem like a waste for me. You do have a solid point however with bleeding a system. It would be much faster with a stronger pump. Thanks for input though! Really appreciate all the help

Do you(or anyone else) by the way have any tips on loop design for easier/more convenient ways to bleed/drain a loop? Should I have a disconnect(from koolance I think it was?) somewhere near the pump for easier draining? Or would that make it to restrictive?

When it comes to loop design, the limitations are simply money and creativity. This is where you pc can become unique from the rest. However, to drain the loop you should have a drain valve ideally, and set it at the lowest point in the loop or at least close to low.

Component priority I hope will be common sense to you e.g. reservoir flowing to the pump first, etc.

What I would suggest is just take a look at how others how done their loops. Doesnt have to be the same case as you, but you can get a good idea, maybe see something you like done and tweak it to your liking.

I used to have a drain valve connected to the lowest radiator in my case. The old EK XTX rads had a third port which was very ideal for draining.

 

[Anakey]

I am currently using a PWM DDC EK pump with heatsink in my loop at the moment, going through 2x gtx980tis in parallel, cpu and a 200x400 radiator. I have the pwm header connected to the pwm header on the motherboard and run the pump on the silent setting from the bios at about 20% load. I had to turn it down because of the noise and also because the flow rate was so strong it was causing bubbles in the reservoir so now it sits at about 2000 rpm and is barely audable over the air turbulance caused by the fans. I did look at the D5, however i prefered the smaller more compact size to the ddc compared to the larger D5 also because i had the 2 graphics cards i was not sure if the head pressure of the D5 would have been enough.

 

[JR23]

Do you(or anyone else) by the way have any tips on loop design for easier/more convenient ways to bleed/drain a loop? Should I have a disconnect(from koolance I think it was?) somewhere near the pump for easier draining? Or would that make it to restrictive?

Get a big flexible hose with a funnel on the end and you can fill, bleed and empty practically anything. You can turn your whole rig on it's side or upside down so the complexity of a loop doesn't really have any limits. Just do what ever works best aesthetically.

It would take a very simple carefully designed loop to be able to just open a single drain valve and get every last bit of coolant out with no thought or movement, there will always be little bits left inside components but it's not an issue. The components will be off during the process, worst case you have to dry something out, nobodies going to die. Be observant and do lots of leak testing and you'll get along fine. I'm sure you'll want to just change something long before any real maintenance is necessary.

JR

 

[NeverBackDown]

When it comes to loop design, the limitations are simply money and creativity. This is where you pc can become unique from the rest. However, to drain the loop you should have a drain valve ideally, and set it at the lowest point in the loop or at least close to low.

Component priority I hope will be common sense to you e.g. reservoir flowing to the pump first, etc.

What I would suggest is just take a look at how others how done their loops. Doesnt have to be the same case as you, but you can get a good idea, maybe see something you like done and tweak it to your liking.

I used to have a drain valve connected to the lowest radiator in my case. The old EK XTX rads had a third port which was very ideal for draining.

How would you go about making sure you have a drain valve? If on the radiator, would you just have it close to the bottom as possible and when you need to drain it, would you just unplug it that way? Obviously in a sink or something but unless there is an actual piece of hardware that helps with this I don't know of many other ways. But thank you for the input

I am currently using a PWM DDC EK pump with heatsink in my loop at the moment, going through 2x gtx980tis in parallel, cpu and a 200x400 radiator. I have the pwm header connected to the pwm header on the motherboard and run the pump on the silent setting from the bios at about 20% load. I had to turn it down because of the noise and also because the flow rate was so strong it was causing bubbles in the reservoir so now it sits at about 2000 rpm and is barely audable over the air turbulance caused by the fans. I did look at the D5, however i prefered the smaller more compact size to the ddc compared to the larger D5 also because i had the 2 graphics cards i was not sure if the head pressure of the D5 would have been enough.

Thanks a ton for insight! While I probably am not using as strong of a pump as you are, it does make me feel more confident the DDC in the kit is strong enough

Get a big flexible hose with a funnel on the end and you can fill, bleed and empty practically anything. You can turn your whole rig on it's side or upside down so the complexity of a loop doesn't really have any limits. Just do what ever works best aesthetically.

It would take a very simple carefully designed loop to be able to just open a single drain valve and get every last bit of coolant out with no thought or movement, there will always be little bits left inside components but it's not an issue. The components will be off during the process, worst case you have to dry something out, nobodies going to die. Be observant and do lots of leak testing and you'll get along fine. I'm sure you'll want to just change something long before any real maintenance is necessary.

JR

Would this extra hose be connected to the top of the pump? That does seem like the easiest way, and it's pretty close to the bottom of the loop since the way I plan on mounting it, it'll be on the floor.
And Ya cleaning it would always be the first thing I would do if I drained it. Just get some distilled water and flush everything out.

 

[Kilbane]

To weigh in on this, I have gone from an AIO cooler, to an expandable AIO cooler as currently seen in Fractal Solo adding a res, 2nd rad and GPU block.

I have already spent more money on a CPU block, D5 Vario and currently looking at a few more parts to finish off going to a full custom loop.

Trust me when I say that whatever you buy, if it is not what you ultimately want, you will endlessly spend money until you get there!

Plan what you want and know you will be happy with in the long run. Start buying bits here and there, you will soon have a great water cooled loop. And ultimately have saved many, many beer tokens.

 

[NeverBackDown]

To weigh in on this, I have gone from an AIO cooler, to an expandable AIO cooler as currently seen in Fractal Solo adding a res, 2nd rad and GPU block.

I have already spent more money on a CPU block, D5 Vario and currently looking at a few more parts to finish off going to a full custom loop.

Trust me when I say that whatever you buy, if it is not what you ultimately want, you will endlessly spend money until you get there!

Plan what you want and know you will be happy with in the long run. Start buying bits here and there, you will soon have a great water cooled loop. And ultimately have saved many, many beer tokens.

Ya I've noticed with many watercooling enthusiasts. It's the same with me in general with hardware
Just the thing is I won't ever go above a CPU/GPU/2 Rads so going overkill with a D5 vario seems kinda wasted when the DDC will still be able to drive the planned loop I have well.

 

[TPC]

ties in with what I meant that you could buy a car for a loops price. I see myself Spending over 500bucks just to get the general parts leaving extra fittings that may be needed out of the calculation. What I mean with spending car money us that me and some friends of mine bought a car for 650€ used. Go figure.

 

[Warchild]

How would you go about making sure you have a drain valve? If on the radiator, would you just have it close to the bottom as possible and when you need to drain it, would you just unplug it that way? Obviously in a sink or something but unless there is an actual piece of hardware that helps with this I don't know of many other ways. But thank you for the input

I tried three options, one was a messy disaster but good learning curve.

I ran a hard tube from the rad with a EK HD fitting and stopper cap. 10mins into bleeding this popped off due to pressure from 2 MCP35x pumps running at full 12V... coolant everywhere, but proved i chose the best place for the drainage.

Second time around I simple used compression fittings with tygon tubing. This held much better but meant having an ugly piece of tube scrap in the bottom of my case.

third and final time i invested in a bitspower ball valve with female to female thread. It fits tightly on the rad, and allows me to shut off the flow of water, attached a tube to the other end and control the draining when I need to. when not draining, i just remove the tube and slap a stopper on the end of the ball valve. This is a little more costly but looks better and is quite efficient. The tube is my drain tube which is one metre long and I just place it into the coolant bottle, PC is on a stand with the coolant on the floor so gravity does its job and I drain straight back into the bottle. When it gets close to full, I close off the valve, change the bottle for another empty and go again.