WYP
News Guru
Prices are normalising, and the RTX 3090 Ti costs too much.
Read more about Nvidia's RTX 3090 Ti being available at MSRP.
Read more about Nvidia's RTX 3090 Ti being available at MSRP.
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Two weeks later and I can still buy and RTX 3090 Ti Founders Edition at MSRP
- Thread starter WYP
- Start date
KingNosser
Well-known member
It's not really a suprise tbh
What nvidia should be more concerned about is if they feel they can keep prices high next time around, well that'll go badly and most of there entire range will sit on the shelf.
One thing amd has a big advantage next time around imho is reduced costs of production on the chiplets.
3090ti sitting but they are so cheap at nearly 2k LUL
What nvidia should be more concerned about is if they feel they can keep prices high next time around, well that'll go badly and most of there entire range will sit on the shelf.
One thing amd has a big advantage next time around imho is reduced costs of production on the chiplets.
3090ti sitting but they are so cheap at nearly 2k LUL
AlienALX
Well-known member
That won't change anything. At all. They will still let Nvidia launch first, then cozy their prices right in line. So the only people that may benefit is them.
There is no competition in the GPU segment now. They just both take the raging pi55 as opposed to just one.
The only thing that will change this is a certain company with a blue logo.
KingNosser
Well-known member
I'm not so sure things would change drasticly, but Intel are already way behind and late to the party and as much as competition in any form is good they simply don't have anything ready to keep up with Nvidia or AMD's next generation, they haven't even launched a card yet so idk what price Intel were hoping for the public to pay for their card, but i feel Nvidia and AMD will squeeze them from being able to sell at a good profit.
But like all biz startup's in any area if you break even in the first 3 years ya not done bad.
AMD will make more profit, but they are able to reduce easier than the others prices if they actually want to compete this time around.
Intel being in 3070/ti teritory when the 7700XT if at a midrange price is going to be similar to a 6900XT well Intel are going to have to cut prices soon after launch it's already nearly may they best hope they sell plenty and fast cause the next gen are monsters in terms of performance.
Oh an lets not forget Raja LUL Seriously the best Intel can hope for is the lower end of the market least for now and while many people want Intel to do well it's only to bring down prices most of the people just want cheaper Nvidia cards. Personally I want AMD to bounce back like the past 5850x days and actually change the market like they did at the start of Ryzen, they have come a long way and since Raja left seem to be doing much better. As for Nvidia I simply just hate the way everything they do is a walled garden they are as bad if not worse than Apple.
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WYP
News Guru
The question is will it be cheap. AMD's chiplet design should be cheaper than an equivalent monolithic design, but they are also using that technology to make a BIG GPU.
KingNosser
Well-known member
Well I feel imho if they are going to be fair the 7700xt shouldn't be any more than £399 as for anything above that level it's hard to say where things will come out as being chiplet means they can have many tiers/skus of GPU's, also comes down to if they really want to compete as a whole and force the market like they did at the start of Ryzen.
I know I'm being harsh on Intel atm but they have at least started out on the right foot with their design it's just idk when they will have the performance for the next gen.
Cards are not just sitting while prices are falling they are sitting as most got fed up and now maybe 6months away from a new set of cards why would you buy now unless you really need it.
Either way I'll upgrade my CPU, but being honest I have no idea when i will upgrade my GPU I'm more likely to buy a new case and fill it with storage atm
AlienALX
Well-known member
AMD no longer offer value on anything. They price in line. Whatever made them think to do that on GPUs? gawd only knows. Technically they are inferior. Not arguing over it, as I don't like Nvidia either, but AMD's GPUs are simply lacking functions Nvidia have. Yet still they priced those GPUs in line with Nvidia's pricing.
IDK whether to see it as arrogant or just being greedy. Either way this is what happens when you only have two companies "competing" and they do little of it. When both are taking the biscuit you need a third player.
At some point both companies realised that no matter what they did or how they did it meant basically charging as much as you can for a product. So the competition is gone, and it's just two companies ripping the pi55 out of people.
Be as harsh on Intel as you like. TBH? I've never really rated AMD's GPUs. Note I said AMD, not ATI. As soon as they took over it was just one cluster after another, to the point we have reached where we are now. An a55 ramming double rip off.
So, Intel have a purpose for me. I don't have to buy their GPUs nor want them, but at the end of the day they can do what AMD used to do and basically keep prices in line with reality. That was one thing AMD did well. Stopping Nvidia from their barrage of pee taking that they've been on ever since Pascal. Up until then AMD usually scared them into releasing good products at decent prices (980ti and before). After that? AMD just decided to go with the a55 ramming flow and just take the complete pee.
So, if Intel are the reality slap? then I don't care what they do, how much crap they talk doing so and so on as long as they bring both of the major a55 rammers back to reality. It will be a win for consumers.
And Nvidia are known to cut prices to sell stuff. Especially when they expect AMD to be a threat. Something AMD have not been for ages, so it's just got worse and worse.
IDK whether to see it as arrogant or just being greedy. Either way this is what happens when you only have two companies "competing" and they do little of it. When both are taking the biscuit you need a third player.
At some point both companies realised that no matter what they did or how they did it meant basically charging as much as you can for a product. So the competition is gone, and it's just two companies ripping the pi55 out of people.
Be as harsh on Intel as you like. TBH? I've never really rated AMD's GPUs. Note I said AMD, not ATI. As soon as they took over it was just one cluster after another, to the point we have reached where we are now. An a55 ramming double rip off.
So, Intel have a purpose for me. I don't have to buy their GPUs nor want them, but at the end of the day they can do what AMD used to do and basically keep prices in line with reality. That was one thing AMD did well. Stopping Nvidia from their barrage of pee taking that they've been on ever since Pascal. Up until then AMD usually scared them into releasing good products at decent prices (980ti and before). After that? AMD just decided to go with the a55 ramming flow and just take the complete pee.
So, if Intel are the reality slap? then I don't care what they do, how much crap they talk doing so and so on as long as they bring both of the major a55 rammers back to reality. It will be a win for consumers.
And Nvidia are known to cut prices to sell stuff. Especially when they expect AMD to be a threat. Something AMD have not been for ages, so it's just got worse and worse.
KingNosser
Well-known member
Well apart from the tensor cores on nvidia cards idk what else you could be talking about in terms of lacking.
I was a long time nvidia user and while I'd had some ATI cards i'd mostly gone nvidia all the time up until the 970 SLI after that prices went way up my 970's were £230 each never see prices like it again even with inflation taken into account.
Thing is I remember you having a fury i think and others and you got burnt by them, but personally while lucky since having the 6800XT I've had zero issues less bugs with new games than i'd ever had on nvidia so while you say lacking in my viewpoint from this card it's performance in games and drivers it's actually been better than the nvidia cards i've owned over the years.
The only niggle it has is it's 1st gen DXR for AMD but watch that change, i just don't agree and it's fine we don't need too each has own valid opinion from their viewpoint, but while i'd like to see AMD have a comeback i don't want them to be the new nvidia not by a long shot i grew to dislike them so much over the years for many reasons and i'm now far happier i don't own one of their cards.
Still at least we can both 100% agree that a 3080 isn't twice as fast as a 2080ti yea jensun don't half talk some bull doesn't he and he's only half the problem.
Still now imho AMD cards are solid and moving forward in a manner that at least in terms of performance nvidia should be worried and with Intel at a later date thou more ready nvidia will have 2 to be concerned about, sure when nvidia go's chiplet it'll be fine but tbh i don't see it as enough and nvidia don't care about the gaming gpu half as much as people like to think.
I was a long time nvidia user and while I'd had some ATI cards i'd mostly gone nvidia all the time up until the 970 SLI after that prices went way up my 970's were £230 each never see prices like it again even with inflation taken into account.
Thing is I remember you having a fury i think and others and you got burnt by them, but personally while lucky since having the 6800XT I've had zero issues less bugs with new games than i'd ever had on nvidia so while you say lacking in my viewpoint from this card it's performance in games and drivers it's actually been better than the nvidia cards i've owned over the years.
The only niggle it has is it's 1st gen DXR for AMD but watch that change, i just don't agree and it's fine we don't need too each has own valid opinion from their viewpoint, but while i'd like to see AMD have a comeback i don't want them to be the new nvidia not by a long shot i grew to dislike them so much over the years for many reasons and i'm now far happier i don't own one of their cards.
Still at least we can both 100% agree that a 3080 isn't twice as fast as a 2080ti yea jensun don't half talk some bull doesn't he and he's only half the problem.
Still now imho AMD cards are solid and moving forward in a manner that at least in terms of performance nvidia should be worried and with Intel at a later date thou more ready nvidia will have 2 to be concerned about, sure when nvidia go's chiplet it'll be fine but tbh i don't see it as enough and nvidia don't care about the gaming gpu half as much as people like to think.
AlienALX
Well-known member
"Apart from the tensor cores". That kinda makes it sound way less of a deal than it is. I'm not even talking about RT either (which AMD are notoriously poor at) but everything else they do. Like totally demolishing AMD with DLSS 2 and gawd knows what else they are good at (encoding etc).
If this were a few years ago where they did nothing but RT? I could look past it. But it's not. It's a key feature that AMD lack. Thus, they should be priced accordingly and not in line with Nvidia. Even if I had one? I would feel the same way. And believe me, I have considered it hard especially now the 6900XT is down to a grand. Problem is my case does not work with air cooled GPUs and I CBA with the £200 extra I would need for parts to put it on a dedicated loop. Asus do a card with a 240 AIO on but for a 6800XT it costs more than a 6900XT. And to me? the 3080 and 6800XT do not offer a big enough performance leap for me to even bother.
Yeah I got burned with Fury X. Mostly because I thought AMD had fixed their lying Crossfire issues and had knuckled down. Seems that once they had to make it work properly they soon abandoned it. It also didn't have enough VRAM no matter which way you shook it, which again took them ages to "fix" and they didn't really fix it. So whilst a game wouldn't crash it would just run at about 2FPS whilst it used the hard drive as VRAM.
I really don't care about who makes what. I just care about what it costs and how it performs. And for the past three years or so? nothing has really been worth buying. Not with my money.
If this were a few years ago where they did nothing but RT? I could look past it. But it's not. It's a key feature that AMD lack. Thus, they should be priced accordingly and not in line with Nvidia. Even if I had one? I would feel the same way. And believe me, I have considered it hard especially now the 6900XT is down to a grand. Problem is my case does not work with air cooled GPUs and I CBA with the £200 extra I would need for parts to put it on a dedicated loop. Asus do a card with a 240 AIO on but for a 6800XT it costs more than a 6900XT. And to me? the 3080 and 6800XT do not offer a big enough performance leap for me to even bother.
Yeah I got burned with Fury X. Mostly because I thought AMD had fixed their lying Crossfire issues and had knuckled down. Seems that once they had to make it work properly they soon abandoned it. It also didn't have enough VRAM no matter which way you shook it, which again took them ages to "fix" and they didn't really fix it. So whilst a game wouldn't crash it would just run at about 2FPS whilst it used the hard drive as VRAM.
I really don't care about who makes what. I just care about what it costs and how it performs. And for the past three years or so? nothing has really been worth buying. Not with my money.
KingNosser
Well-known member
Well both sides are overpriced but for many obvious reasons, if they were actually selling at msrp it'd be a bit of a different story, sure nvidia have extra software bells but nothing that bothers me i don't stream anymore thou maybe again at some stage. As for DXR there is a gap but it's really not bad and since FSR 2.0 is coming and RSR is out the DLSS point is very past hense tbh so on that side i disagree sure 6 months ago but not now.
Even under full load and overclocked my card doesn't get hot enough or loud enough for water to be an issue but you are into custom loops so it's different, but now with new cards not far away i'd not buy anything that's out and prices will fall sharply on the current cards.
The 6800XT is very close to a 6900XT tbh it's not much of a gap, but the new cards are going to be crazy from both sides, only reason i'm upgrading cpu is i don't plan on AM5 the ddr5 prices scared me off enough.
The fury was a nice idea badly executed, i'll admit this is most likely the first time amd got things more right than the last few generations but with the 5700xt at least they were smart enough to wait, so there was a positive change.
I'm serious thou i've had no driver issues of any kind didn't even have all the crazy cyberpunk launch bugs nothing it's all be so smooth and that suprised even me i expected the risk to have more of an impact.
Prices are just all out of wack thou in more normal times the 6800XT being £680 would have by now come down a little more towards £600 and tbh that is where i feel it should have been, i'm not arguing the price of any of the cards, but the cards are solid.
They just so quiet even at 2600mhz in port royal runs it's like they are at idle so when i get one of the 3 cpu's i have my eyes on atm not 100% sure exactly which yet but highly likely to be ordering it before end of month, I'll at least be able to get some correct framerates as my 1700 is serverly holding this card back alot.
Even half thought today on getting a 3950x but it just doesnt seem as good as if i got a 5900x or the 5700x or 5800x3d all would be better fps for not much more and new in box.
I really don't agree that amd are notoriously poor at DXR thou it's their first stint and it's like first gen nvidia so to say it's bad is like saying nvidia got it wrong and was crap the first time also, but it'll change trust me amd are not messing about and there roadmaps have been far more truth than the lies nvidia spouted out at there reveal events.
Even under full load and overclocked my card doesn't get hot enough or loud enough for water to be an issue but you are into custom loops so it's different, but now with new cards not far away i'd not buy anything that's out and prices will fall sharply on the current cards.
The 6800XT is very close to a 6900XT tbh it's not much of a gap, but the new cards are going to be crazy from both sides, only reason i'm upgrading cpu is i don't plan on AM5 the ddr5 prices scared me off enough.
The fury was a nice idea badly executed, i'll admit this is most likely the first time amd got things more right than the last few generations but with the 5700xt at least they were smart enough to wait, so there was a positive change.
I'm serious thou i've had no driver issues of any kind didn't even have all the crazy cyberpunk launch bugs nothing it's all be so smooth and that suprised even me i expected the risk to have more of an impact.
Prices are just all out of wack thou in more normal times the 6800XT being £680 would have by now come down a little more towards £600 and tbh that is where i feel it should have been, i'm not arguing the price of any of the cards, but the cards are solid.
They just so quiet even at 2600mhz in port royal runs it's like they are at idle so when i get one of the 3 cpu's i have my eyes on atm not 100% sure exactly which yet but highly likely to be ordering it before end of month, I'll at least be able to get some correct framerates as my 1700 is serverly holding this card back alot.
Even half thought today on getting a 3950x but it just doesnt seem as good as if i got a 5900x or the 5700x or 5800x3d all would be better fps for not much more and new in box.
I really don't agree that amd are notoriously poor at DXR thou it's their first stint and it's like first gen nvidia so to say it's bad is like saying nvidia got it wrong and was crap the first time also, but it'll change trust me amd are not messing about and there roadmaps have been far more truth than the lies nvidia spouted out at there reveal events.
AlienALX
Well-known member
Fury X was a bad idea poorly executed. The 6000 series were too, and the 7000 and 200/300 series.
Whilst Nvidia learned from Fermi AMD learned nothing. Low clocked tanks that were crap for gaming. Now Nvidia are back to tanks and AMD are making diet GPUs with higher clocks.
But yeah, Fury X was a terrible idea. Was clocked to the ceiling to make up for its terrible design, and the HBM was a total waste of space given that there just wasn't enough of it. And even when there sort of was on Vega it made no difference to gaming. Other stuff? sure but not gaming.
Whilst Nvidia learned from Fermi AMD learned nothing. Low clocked tanks that were crap for gaming. Now Nvidia are back to tanks and AMD are making diet GPUs with higher clocks.
But yeah, Fury X was a terrible idea. Was clocked to the ceiling to make up for its terrible design, and the HBM was a total waste of space given that there just wasn't enough of it. And even when there sort of was on Vega it made no difference to gaming. Other stuff? sure but not gaming.
KingNosser
Well-known member
Well I think your going to find out that in order for nvidia to keep up with AMD's chiplet rdna3 they are not only going to have to create the largest mono die for gaming cards yet but it's going to eat a nice heafty 600watts and yep they are building tanks or haven't you noticed the size of the 3090ti cards omg seriously it's funny already
Nvidia doesn't seem to have changed much in my view they will do anything it takes to try to take the top spot of the halo products and while as a halo product that is great when it comes to competing with a chiplet arch they have no chance, hell nvidia themselves are reliant on amd for the epyc cpu's for there dgx thou plans are afoot for them to build there own, but we'll see time will tell i guess.
Nvidia doesn't seem to have changed much in my view they will do anything it takes to try to take the top spot of the halo products and while as a halo product that is great when it comes to competing with a chiplet arch they have no chance, hell nvidia themselves are reliant on amd for the epyc cpu's for there dgx thou plans are afoot for them to build there own, but we'll see time will tell i guess.
AlienALX
Well-known member
Nvidia are doing the same thing dude. Navi, even years before it launched was on their timeline as "scalable". Meaning it would be multi die. It just never happened that way, and the first two gens are monolithic.
But yeah, I remember reading ages ago that Nvidia were on exactly the same path. It's part of the reason why they ditched SLI and why AMD ditched CFX.
RT should show you just how terrible current GPUs are for it. All of that Fermi like beef with Ampere, those tons of CUDA cores and it still runs like a bat and ball simulator from the 70s.
Still, in a way Nvidia got what they wanted. Pascal was totally over powered and a 1080ti or Titan XP is still very much relevant today. Meaning it is probably the longest surviving GPU tech in history. This is because it was so good that it was too fast for anything not only available at the time, but now too. You still don't need RT and you can still get a very good show from either card. Nvidia needed to reset the GPU space by moving onto something they could release in increments, each time with the user needing a new card to really start pushing forward. Like yeah, a TXP or 1080Ti will still run games fine but once they get you on RT the demand starts becoming insane.
That's why they needed to move to RT. Otherwise? the GPU space would have become very stale. Why buy a new card when there's no point? so they needed to shove the graphics market into a different corner. You still can't 4k ray trace without DLSS on a 3090Ti, so they know that they will get people coming back if that is what people adopt. At least it made the 20 series even slightly desirable over Pascal.
Problem is? price. For them to make the hardware needed for RT it costs a bunch. Which is why in a way I wish they hadn't bothered. Still, I suppose they need their killer app to keep on selling GPUs.
And that is the only reason I would consider buying an AMD card. Problem is? I don't think they are worth the money. Not when I bought my second 2080Ti for £500. The 6900XT is not twice as fast, nor does it have twice the RT performance. In fact, it is probably decidedly worse than my 2080Ti.
Only reason I would even consider it is because I still play PUBG more than anything else. And in that? it would be pretty decent.
Just not at a grand.
But yeah, I remember reading ages ago that Nvidia were on exactly the same path. It's part of the reason why they ditched SLI and why AMD ditched CFX.
RT should show you just how terrible current GPUs are for it. All of that Fermi like beef with Ampere, those tons of CUDA cores and it still runs like a bat and ball simulator from the 70s.
Still, in a way Nvidia got what they wanted. Pascal was totally over powered and a 1080ti or Titan XP is still very much relevant today. Meaning it is probably the longest surviving GPU tech in history. This is because it was so good that it was too fast for anything not only available at the time, but now too. You still don't need RT and you can still get a very good show from either card. Nvidia needed to reset the GPU space by moving onto something they could release in increments, each time with the user needing a new card to really start pushing forward. Like yeah, a TXP or 1080Ti will still run games fine but once they get you on RT the demand starts becoming insane.
That's why they needed to move to RT. Otherwise? the GPU space would have become very stale. Why buy a new card when there's no point? so they needed to shove the graphics market into a different corner. You still can't 4k ray trace without DLSS on a 3090Ti, so they know that they will get people coming back if that is what people adopt. At least it made the 20 series even slightly desirable over Pascal.
Problem is? price. For them to make the hardware needed for RT it costs a bunch. Which is why in a way I wish they hadn't bothered. Still, I suppose they need their killer app to keep on selling GPUs.
And that is the only reason I would consider buying an AMD card. Problem is? I don't think they are worth the money. Not when I bought my second 2080Ti for £500. The 6900XT is not twice as fast, nor does it have twice the RT performance. In fact, it is probably decidedly worse than my 2080Ti.
Only reason I would even consider it is because I still play PUBG more than anything else. And in that? it would be pretty decent.
Just not at a grand.
KingNosser
Well-known member
I agree with most of the points DXR still isn't there yet for either company fully like all gpu tech of the past when the change happens the first few gens are a huge hit to performance.
If the 6900XT was at £700 it'd be about the right spot for now but i'd still not buy it at this stage, but even in rasta performance in many titles a 6800XT can keep up with a 3090 DXR isn't the same nvidia had a long head start but times are changing even Intel is moving in a better direction than nvidia atm but chiplet and arch changes are going to make a pretty big leap for amd the gap is closing alot.
the 1080ti is the God card has been for ages it was near perfect at it's time even for the price and prices are not something nvidia want to go down i just don't see it unless forced and even then can they afford to do it, thou sure they have huge profit margins.
Still I'll say this about nvidia they will push new tech even if it runs lackluster at first they have to do it to split the gens up and try to guide people onto pay the devs money to put it into the games and buy there way forward it's peanuts to them and they get there way.
I'm hoping things are going to change soon as were being priced out of the market over time as much as i am voting with the underdog i honestly feel they are moving forward in a better manner than for many years in all areas, they were nearly dead and yet somehow getting keller to make a desgin has completely changed everything for them.
For me the best DXR is older games with path tracing and until they can do that in 4k 144hz+ the tech is not fully realised and we are a long way from that yet in modern AAA games a long way, so they are going to milk it for ages lol
If the 6900XT was at £700 it'd be about the right spot for now but i'd still not buy it at this stage, but even in rasta performance in many titles a 6800XT can keep up with a 3090 DXR isn't the same nvidia had a long head start but times are changing even Intel is moving in a better direction than nvidia atm but chiplet and arch changes are going to make a pretty big leap for amd the gap is closing alot.
the 1080ti is the God card has been for ages it was near perfect at it's time even for the price and prices are not something nvidia want to go down i just don't see it unless forced and even then can they afford to do it, thou sure they have huge profit margins.
Still I'll say this about nvidia they will push new tech even if it runs lackluster at first they have to do it to split the gens up and try to guide people onto pay the devs money to put it into the games and buy there way forward it's peanuts to them and they get there way.
I'm hoping things are going to change soon as were being priced out of the market over time as much as i am voting with the underdog i honestly feel they are moving forward in a better manner than for many years in all areas, they were nearly dead and yet somehow getting keller to make a desgin has completely changed everything for them.
For me the best DXR is older games with path tracing and until they can do that in 4k 144hz+ the tech is not fully realised and we are a long way from that yet in modern AAA games a long way, so they are going to milk it for ages lol
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Dicehunter
Resident Newb
I won't lie, My finger was hovering over the buy button on Nvidia's site but for once I practised some self control, The price is too much, Only 5 months to go and the 4000 series launches and we'll see a 4070 likely match this card in raw performance for 1/4 the price.
If this came out a year ago I would likely have gotten one but right now it's simply way too late in the product cycle, Plus I have a 3080 Ti to tide me over ^_^
If this came out a year ago I would likely have gotten one but right now it's simply way too late in the product cycle, Plus I have a 3080 Ti to tide me over ^_^
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Dawelio
Active member
That is saying that it will 1. be stock at launch 2. stock overall and 3. that it won’t cost a lot. Seeing as everything across the board has become more expensive etc.
And seeing the past stocks doesn’t give much confident in this launch…
