LiViNgL@RgE
New member
I've been read around & it looks like r402 is the best gas to use, as it has 2 degree lower temps than 507 and 8% more capacity.... Is it available in the UK?
Regas Mach 2 GT to r402
- Thread starter LiViNgL@RgE
- Start date
It's also got a much higher discharge temp/pressure (from what I've read) and can be harder to work with.
A unit with a larger condenser is definitely better to work with though results have been good with it. It's available and there is someone advertising specifically for it as a recharge.
However, I'm a little concerned about the issues with it, and seems like it could dramatically shorten the lifespan of the compressor and is more likely to cause issues than 507.
Gray
A unit with a larger condenser is definitely better to work with though results have been good with it. It's available and there is someone advertising specifically for it as a recharge.
However, I'm a little concerned about the issues with it, and seems like it could dramatically shorten the lifespan of the compressor and is more likely to cause issues than 507.
Gray
LiViNgL@RgE
New member
What compressor would me needed to run this stuff & what other upgrades would be needed?
Well there's no reason why you can't run it with a standard mach2 or chilly1 mach and it'll work. Very well, as you said, it'll do a bit colder and hold load a little better.
If you're looking to make one you can trust and will defo last, then a larger condensor is a good idea, along with upgrading the compressor.
I'm considering making a 'super-single' out of the custom job I got from the states, and might have 402 in there(still weighing out the options) but it's almost 1hp and the condensor is 3 times the size of a standard mach.
I don't know the details of what's best, and hopefully Fatty will appear and can make recommendations on what works well with it.
Just having a compressor that's higher HP isn't always better, the volume and ratings of the compressor determine how well it'll work with a gas, and I certainly don't know enough about 402, or what specific compressor works best with it.
I'm not saying it won't work, as there's a few out there running 402 on a modded mach and having no problems, but I just don't trust it's gonna last, and I like my gear to last.
Full custom units are available, and if you ask Phil about it or Fatty for that matter, I'm sure they could quote you on cost and potential results, but really a 402 mach2 standard, and a Chilly1 507 unit aren't gonna be very different tbh, and a few degrees better than 507 isn't worth the potential risk imo.
Gray
If you're looking to make one you can trust and will defo last, then a larger condensor is a good idea, along with upgrading the compressor.
I'm considering making a 'super-single' out of the custom job I got from the states, and might have 402 in there(still weighing out the options) but it's almost 1hp and the condensor is 3 times the size of a standard mach.
I don't know the details of what's best, and hopefully Fatty will appear and can make recommendations on what works well with it.
Just having a compressor that's higher HP isn't always better, the volume and ratings of the compressor determine how well it'll work with a gas, and I certainly don't know enough about 402, or what specific compressor works best with it.
I'm not saying it won't work, as there's a few out there running 402 on a modded mach and having no problems, but I just don't trust it's gonna last, and I like my gear to last.
Full custom units are available, and if you ask Phil about it or Fatty for that matter, I'm sure they could quote you on cost and potential results, but really a 402 mach2 standard, and a Chilly1 507 unit aren't gonna be very different tbh, and a few degrees better than 507 isn't worth the potential risk imo.
Gray
Rockindaveuk
New member
imo when you get to the standard of a mach II GT, r507'd unit etc, to get any better you need to substantially upgrade the cooling to see any real benefit. Its no good spending on a gas upgrade when your running either r404a or r507 imo. The next logical step has to be either dry ice, or a cascade.
It takes a massive temp drop to get more speed out of your CPU when youve used a top single stage unit
It takes a massive temp drop to get more speed out of your CPU when youve used a top single stage unit
imported_Tim
New member
Rockindaveuk said:imo when you get to the standard of a mach II GT, r507'd unit etc, to get any better you need to substantially upgrade the cooling to see any real benefit. Its no good spending on a gas upgrade when your running either r404a or r507 imo. The next logical step has to be either dry ice, or a cascade.
It takes a massive temp drop to get more speed out of your CPU when youve used a top single stage unit
True, but it can make a difference when you're on your 200watt cpu limit... you might be able to cool cpu's you can't cool with your stock R404
For the most part, you won't see a substantial increase in heatload, just in temps.
IE if you were able to run 200w, and you regass with a different gas you usually won't be able to run any higher heatload, just have a decrease in temps.
Not strictly true, but for the most part it's more to do with captube tuning than with the gas itself, a captube system that's tuned for 210w heatload will still max out there even if you add more gas, and usually less gas is put in to gain lower temps, but at the sacrifice of max heatload.
I agree though Dave, for the most part, you need a serious decrease to get much more speed and stability.
When I had my Gt(404/standard head) done by Fatty (chilly1/507), I found that the temp went from -45 on the display under load, to more like -55 on the display, but with the change in sensor location, it's more like 5-10 degrees out than the 20-25 degrees with the standard head, so it's around a 20-25c drop in temps, and that's enough to push to the next level, -25 won't quite perform like -50(ish).
The next biggie is gonna be a Cascade for me though.
I'm thinking that eventually I'll get my big custom unit sorted, which should give similar results to the Chilly1 modded unit or very slightly better, and use the cash to fund a Cascade whether I make it or I have it made. -100 is definitely a step up lol
Gray
IE if you were able to run 200w, and you regass with a different gas you usually won't be able to run any higher heatload, just have a decrease in temps.
Not strictly true, but for the most part it's more to do with captube tuning than with the gas itself, a captube system that's tuned for 210w heatload will still max out there even if you add more gas, and usually less gas is put in to gain lower temps, but at the sacrifice of max heatload.
I agree though Dave, for the most part, you need a serious decrease to get much more speed and stability.
When I had my Gt(404/standard head) done by Fatty (chilly1/507), I found that the temp went from -45 on the display under load, to more like -55 on the display, but with the change in sensor location, it's more like 5-10 degrees out than the 20-25 degrees with the standard head, so it's around a 20-25c drop in temps, and that's enough to push to the next level, -25 won't quite perform like -50(ish).
The next biggie is gonna be a Cascade for me though.
I'm thinking that eventually I'll get my big custom unit sorted, which should give similar results to the Chilly1 modded unit or very slightly better, and use the cash to fund a Cascade whether I make it or I have it made. -100 is definitely a step up lol
Gray
Even better is run an oiless compressor that will run until it combusts you will get super uber low temps throw as much refrigerant in it as possible and it will keep going no problem with lubrication
or just get a compressor with better compression ratio high back pressure etc instead of low back pressure know what your doing and charge it to the load
or just get a compressor with better compression ratio high back pressure etc instead of low back pressure know what your doing and charge it to the load
LiViNgL@RgE
New member
The reason I need this information is my mach won't hold a load (has no capacity).....
Testing last night with FX55 SD@ 3.2Ghz 1.392V, I get idle temps of -22 to -19 in this hot weather but when I run prime after 2 minutes the cpu is at -3 to -5 which is crap....
I would say I got a snug fit because it has 60 PSI of torque holding the head to the cpu....
The mach display is useless as the lowest the temp goes with full load with FX55 CH @ 3.3Ghz 1.7V was -54 & sits between -60 & -64 Idle.....
So I want to get regased with the best possible!
Testing last night with FX55 SD@ 3.2Ghz 1.392V, I get idle temps of -22 to -19 in this hot weather but when I run prime after 2 minutes the cpu is at -3 to -5 which is crap....
I would say I got a snug fit because it has 60 PSI of torque holding the head to the cpu....
The mach display is useless as the lowest the temp goes with full load with FX55 CH @ 3.3Ghz 1.7V was -54 & sits between -60 & -64 Idle.....
So I want to get regased with the best possible!
The Legend
New member
This is really good stuff guys - I am picking up plenty here, I unfortunately have no experience in this but I am interested in what being discussed.
I wont embarass myself by asking silly questions just sit back and try and fathom what it all means.
Great discussion guys I am in awe at teh knowledge posessed here.
I wont embarass myself by asking silly questions just sit back and try and fathom what it all means.
Great discussion guys I am in awe at teh knowledge posessed here.
name='K404' said:@ Cash...I saw that as well....if most Vapochills cant even handle R507, for him to offer R402 for them seems reckless. Theres only a few situations where I would be happy to send my gear off to a stranger for them to toy with it...and that wasnt one of them
I agree man. The thought of sending him my GT was not a nice one.
If and when I ever go for Phase again I shall have Phil sell me a Chilly1 or have the Fatt man himself tune me a monster rig
realy for a mach the best thing to do is replace the head with a chilly1 block I also find the older machs hold better temps than the gt's once they are regassed this may be due to the cap tube length a gt has 120" of cap tube a standard mach has 93" so maybe replace the head regass it an replace the cap tube
GoLLuM4444
New member
name='K404' said:@ Cash...I saw that as well....if most Vapochills cant even handle R507, for him to offer R402 for them seems reckless. Theres only a few situations where I would be happy to send my gear off to a stranger for them to toy with it...and that wasnt one of them
I saw it too and I totally agree.
Ahhhh
Normal, really for that kinda setup.
The IHS really does mess up the load temps and even though you can't say the mobo temps are always accurate, I was getting similar results from my claw 55, though about 7 degrees higher at the same vcore, maybe 10 max.
I'd recommend Chilly1 head, and see if Fatty can do 402a, and add a second 'push' fan to the condensor and run 'em full speed.
Slight increase in capacity, slightly better temps (than 507) and if the compressor breaks, just get a new one
402a is giving the best single stage unit results without resorting to messing around with blends so really if you want the best...that's about it.
Gray
Normal, really for that kinda setup.
The IHS really does mess up the load temps and even though you can't say the mobo temps are always accurate, I was getting similar results from my claw 55, though about 7 degrees higher at the same vcore, maybe 10 max.
I'd recommend Chilly1 head, and see if Fatty can do 402a, and add a second 'push' fan to the condensor and run 'em full speed.
Slight increase in capacity, slightly better temps (than 507) and if the compressor breaks, just get a new one
402a is giving the best single stage unit results without resorting to messing around with blends so really if you want the best...that's about it.
Gray
Oh yeah, and even though I killed my Dothan with the Chilly1 you made me, I still love it 
-30 reported idle temps at full OC, -15 load, and that was with mediocre contact after I stripped it to have a look. Dothans are SO hard to work with on phase. -58 on the display, and that's more like a REAL -45 or better face temp under load.
I love that Chilly1 Fatty, I recommend EVERYONE buy one!
It's gonna kill me to sell it when I finally get a Cascade
Gray
-30 reported idle temps at full OC, -15 load, and that was with mediocre contact after I stripped it to have a look. Dothans are SO hard to work with on phase. -58 on the display, and that's more like a REAL -45 or better face temp under load.
I love that Chilly1 Fatty, I recommend EVERYONE buy one!
It's gonna kill me to sell it when I finally get a Cascade
Gray
Phil Stanbridge
New member
Absolutely, glad you are happy Mr Mole please post pics.
