Nvidia - The way it's meant to be cooled (R) (TM)

[alienware]

So today I decided to mock up a cooler that would totally work.

Now obviously the reason we tend to get rather annoyed at graphics cooling it because it's noisy. And if it isn't noisy our cards run hot.

Whilst MSI kick ass making coolers I was a bit surprised to see that their Lightning cooler was loud at full load. Well, when I say loud I mean about ten times quieter than a stock cooler but you can still hear it over your fans. The aim then with GPUs should surely be reigning them back and trying to get them to system fan noise levels?

Now as we all know Nvidia seemed to buck their trend for crap coolers when they released the 460. This made the 460 quiet, desirable and cool as a cucumber which led to massive overclocks. Yet, with the 5 series they seem to want to go back to blower cooling. And whilst (as Tom pointed out) the 5 series may be as 'quiet?' as the 285 GTX it is still going to be annoyingly loud.

So, blowers are out. And, the reason they're out is because of this.

That is a stock cooler from a 470GTX. And we can all see the major problem there. The heatsink HAS to end before the fan as the blower fans are full depth and do not drive air downward they send it sideways. Meaning you have to lose a ton of real estate on the heatsink itself to accomodate the stupid fan. And I am sure Nvidia were fully aware of this with the 470 as the fan is small. When I say small I mean tiny, not even 2 inches across. Stupid.

Now. It seems card manus seem to have missed an incredibly blatant point with graphics cards. With new cases you get a lot of width. And, it seems that a hald brained designer realised that you could use this space in the air to accomodate a fan. I say that because I have an 8800 Ultra which has a fan that extends up on a curve so that it can be larger. Here is a shot of the 8800 Ultra with the sizes of the sink.

OK now maybe you can begin to understand where I am going with this yes? 115mm in total height. However, as we all know too well you could EASILY make that 120 or even 140mm and your case would still close perfectly. So why in the balls are we still being 'treated' to 92mm fans on our GPU coolers? I don't get it AT ALL. Now before any one brings up depth issues and dual-triple slot cooling let me raise a point. This is the Scythe Kaze Jyu slim.

Look at the right side pic. It's about as deep as a slice of bread. Yet, this incredibly clever fan does not give anything up on CFM due to its design. So why in the hell can't GPU manus design a 120/140mm fan and put it in the cooler?

Arctic make the triple cooler for GPUs. It costs around £50. It looks like this.

Now. Arctic make 120mm fans in white and black that cost £4.50 each. I know because I used to have a full set of them for my Alienware. Thus, why are they determined to use three 92mm fans that will obviously make more noise than two 120/140mm fans and cool worse?

So, to sum this all up I have mocked up a cooler that will show exactly how this could be done. There's no point at all in me explaining how it would need to work because it's absolutely crushingly simple. You take the 8800U cooler, use some bloody brain matter and extend the heatsink sideways covering all. Then you create a plastic shroud housing two 120/140mm fans like this.

Job bloody done.

 

[Techyandy]

I totally agree; MSI (and to some extent Asus - Ares) are the only companies to utilise an extended PCB in an effective way. I think Nvidia should adopt the same principal as AMD - AMD didn't mind that the 5970 wouldn't fit in every case, but they realised that someone isn't going to put a £500 graphics card in a £30 hotbox.

Nvidia should be using larger, quieter fans with high static pressure to REALLY force air through a dense fin arrangement and not mind about the criticism from reviewers about dissapating warm air into the case.

 

[bertdasquirt]

You should send it to them as a mock up design for a cooler.. or you should try and make one yourself and see how it fairs... looks awesome though.

 

[alienware]

The only way to build a prototype would be to use glass fiber and epoxy or carbon fiber and epoxy. It would be easy to use the fin and block from say a Gelid Icyvision.

Sadly GF is quite heavy and would need resin which is very heavy. CF is an option but man, you would need a perfect mould.

Obviously because of the curves pressed alu (press break) wouldn't really work unless you could weld alu.

Hopefully Nvidia or some one else will hear my cries and make something awesome

 

[Jujumonkey]

The only way to build a prototype would be to use glass fiber and epoxy or carbon fiber and epoxy. It would be easy to use the fin and block from say a Gelid Icyvision.

Sadly GF is quite heavy and would need resin which is very heavy. CF is an option but man, you would need a perfect mould.

Obviously because of the curves pressed alu (press break) wouldn't really work unless you could weld alu.

Hopefully Nvidia or some one else will hear my cries and make something awesome

the Scythe SCVMS-1000 Musashi aftermartket Graphics Card Cooler looks like it would be easier for you to mod and its about 35 quid

and one day i will learn how to add attachments properly =o/

 

[alienware]

Good cooler that. Came top of the class in Custom PC's roundup. The arctics would have probably done better but most of them started to fall off before tests could be ran

I doubt the Musashi fits the 470 or 480 and if it does it's a bit out dated now tbh.

Personally I am leaning toward the Icyvision. Rev 1 units didn't fit but rev2 seem to offer the same results as the Zalman for £20 less. It doesn't look as nice, though.

BTW those fans are the Jyu slims.

 

[Charles]

There's an alternative to GRP (glass-reinforced polyester) for one-off prototypes: rapid prototyping using 3D printers. You draw up a 3D model in a CAD package and send it directly to a 3D printer. These either build up the form by laying down thin, extruded threads of semi-molten plastic (one thread fuses onto the top of the previous one), or they sinter / fuse powdered plastic or even metal using lasers. While the cost of the machine is still pretty high, I'm sure it must be possible to find a service provider that does this sort of work. Many engineering and product design colleges have these now, so that's another possibility to check out. Here's one example of a 3D printer.

 

[alienware]

LOL please don't show me things like that

I'm an eccentric bugger as it is. If I had one of those there would be crap in every room

 

[lasher]

$11,000 !!!

I take two

 

[Daza]

Sorry but got to be said, inside a case Id rather have all the hot air blown out the PCI slots, Ive had a couple of ati 4870's that had a heatsink like that bottom picture and while it did keep things cool the case got rather toasty.

Hot air out the back for me thanks you muchly........ looks at 5970 mmmmm thats the way.

 

[alienware]

Sorry but got to be said, inside a case Id rather have all the hot air blown out the PCI slots, Ive had a couple of ati 4870's that had a heatsink like that bottom picture and while it did keep things cool the case got rather toasty.

Hot air out the back for me thanks you muchly........ looks at 5970 mmmmm thats the way.

Is your case sealed at the back with no exhaust fans then? Sorry to hear that.

$11,000 !!!

I take two

But just imagine the piles and piles of pointless crap you could make 'just because' !

 

[Daza]

Nop had two 120mm fans blowing in from the bottom and two sucking out at the top, but then I was running crossfire with them so the first card was nearly melting all the time, just not a fan of it tbh, stems from my watercooling days as Id rather have the radiator blowing out of the case instead of blowing hot air into the case.

 

[alienware]

warm air is not what causes a GPU to get really hot. When I run my 5770s right next to one another the top one runs 15c hotter. But that isn't because of the cooler (even though it's the one you like better) it's because it simply can't breathe. The hottest part of a GPU is the back. Or, the top. And that heat rises no matter what cooler you are using dude. If you butt them up together it doesn't matter what cooler you are using as the top card is going to be getting all of the really hot parts of the air rising and it will be sucked straight in by the blower.

It isn't just a blower cooler than can exhaust air from the back. If a dual fanned cooler was designed correctly to suck in air and give it nowhere to go but out of the back that's where it would go.

So, that all leads to what is the most important things to keep cool inside your PC.

1. The GPUs. Seeing as they're pretty much the hottest thing you use.

2. The CPU. Which has an outlet for its heat directly behind the heatsink.

3. The northbridge.

All of which do not seem to suffer the adverse effects of warm air in the case.

So, in order to keep 1 as cool as possible it would be best to use the best cooling solution available to keep it as cool as you can. And that isn't a blower fan on account of them being notoriously crap when compared to a decent cooler. Most of the reason for that I explained at the beginning of the thread. Look at the paltry actual cooler on the 470. It's that small because it has to make way for a full depth fan. Meaning less space for the cooler, less space for the fan, less cooling overall.

There will never ever be a (Edit, air) solution to keeping both cards in an SLI or Crossfire setup at the same low temps. With ATX and PCIE slots it just isn't possible. If sometime in the future GPUS become a single chip design akin to a CPU and you could have more exhaust fans? sure. It would be perfectly possible to have them at the same temps. But all the time science comes into play (cold air falling and hot air rising) you are always going to be in a lose lose situ due to the terribly old ATX/AT design. I mean you have to accept that ATX is pretty much knocking on 20 years old (seeing as how it derrived from AT and nothing has really changed too much since then. The major difference with ATX over AT was how the PSU switched on your hardware)

 

[Daza]

I would happily beg to differ and be here all night, but I was happy to switch to a 5970 and have one card which blows out the back and kept everything inside the case as mine isnt what you would call thermodynamic for air cooling as the board is horizontal but I'd still prefer any card that kicks the heat out of the case instead of keeping it in as Ill take lower temps anywhere any day for overall stability when clocking the nuts off things.

 

[alienware]

All you would need to do with the dual or triple fan design dude is shroud it. The air being sucked into the fins would have nowhere to go but out of the back of the case

 

[SnW]

I am pretty sure i posted a reply in this thread

is this deleted without a warning or anything?

because then i am getting a very nasty FM feeling here and i am DEF not liking this

 

[alienware]

Well unless it was sweary I would doubt it dude.

Don't worry about an opinion I can take it

 

[SnW]

Well unless it was sweary I would doubt it dude.

Don't worry about an opinion I can take it

Yea i know you can, you are im my opnion a very respected member on here and have a lot of knowledge ,

and my post was a very normal post no swearing at all , i just asked something

 

[alienware]

Hah. I'm an Ahole in the eyes of the net bro

It's my humility and understanding of other people's opinions that is hard to see. TBH to me unless something is completely and utterly factually wrong then it's just an opinion.

Christopher Hitchens = my hero