My BF3 Build

[Niz406]

Hi Guys,

So here it is, my rig built specifically for BF3.

What I want to know or get help with, is configuring it for optimal performance and so I have a few things to ask, first off the Specs:

AMD Phenom II 1090T

Mushkin Ridgeback Redline 8GB DDR3 1600MHZ (Dual Channel Kit 7-8-7-24)Running at 807mhz each according to CPUz

Asus Crosshair Formula IV Skt AM3+ Mobo

2 x Asus ATi 6970 HD's @ 16x16x

Corsair HX1050 PSU

Corsair Force 3 120gb SSD

WD Caviar Black 750GB 7200rpm HDD

Samsung SH-B123L/BSBP Blu-Ray ROM

Cisco / Linksys - 300mbps Wireless PCI Card

Arctic Cooling Frezer Pro Rev.2

Windows 7 Ultimate 64 Bit

Housed in a Corsair T600 Chassis (White)

This was before I picked the arctic cooling frezer pro up, the AMD fan was tooo noisey ! !

So my questions are relating to its performance, as its been 8 years since I built my last gaming PC I wanted to check what the best config of this would be and your recommendations:

1) My score in 3D Mark 2011 was 8276 for the 720P and 3485 for 1080P is this any good?

2) 3D Mark says that they are below what is expected on the set up, how can I make it better? AMD 11.10 drivers downloaded

3) The 6970's come with a voltage tweak, can I flick the switches on both in CrossfireX and will they boost performance without overclocking?

4) The Mobo has a cool CPU overclocking feature / Auto tune, I ran the tool and it took the CPU to 4.1ghz but was unstable and dropped it back to 3.9 on the freezer pro, but windows assessment only gave it a 0.1 increase on processor / ram values. Why such a little increase for such a jump in CPU frequency?

Any help, advice on my BF3 set up before its release would be great

 

[AMDFTW]

that should be fine for BF3

 

[Master&Puppet]

1) My score in 3D Mark 2011 was 8276 for the 720P and 3485 for 1080P is this any good?

I haven't benchmarked with 3D mark but you have 2 6970s so youll be fine

I'm expecting high settings on my overclocked 5850s.

2) 3D Mark says that they are below what is expected on the set up, how can I make it better? AMD 11.10 drivers downloaded

Have you got 2 crossbridges? Have you messed around with any settings and accidentally detuned them (or turned xfire off in CCC - I've done that lol)? Also I know that FurMark only tests crossfire if the tests are run in fullscreen mode, is there is similar situation with 3D Mark?

3) The 6970's come with a voltage tweak, can I flick the switches on both in CrossfireX and will they boost performance without overclocking?

Unless that raises the speeds of the gpu/ram then you're just adding electricity for no reason. Personally I'd use MSIAfterBurner to make a stable profile to work with. Set a sensible voltage (might say in the manual) and add to the gpu and ram speeds until it becomes unstable. I did this recently, might help

4) The Mobo has a cool CPU overclocking feature / Auto tune, I ran the tool and it took the CPU to 4.1ghz but was unstable and dropped it back to 3.9 on the freezer pro, but windows assessment only gave it a 0.1 increase on processor / ram values. Why such a little increase for such a jump in CPU frequency?

It's definitely a good idea to look at doing your own bios overclock, you'll get a more stable, and probably faster, system out of it. When i tried the mobos auto oc it did silly things like lowering ram speeds... Give the cpu oc section a shout if you want to look into it (i've got the same mobo as you and a virtually identical processor if you want to pm me).

Don't worry about WE index, its a pretty poor performance indicator although it will give you a clue about bottlenecks. My 1100t is oc to 4ghz from 3.3 and WEI only added .1 too. I last used the benchmark facility in AMD Overdrive - take an average of 5 tests at stock and oc speeds to see the difference.

Hope this helps,

M&P

 

[Niz406]

Wow now that's what I call an answer, big thanks M&P.

I haven't benchmarked with 3D mark but you have 2 6970s so youll be fine

I'm expecting high settings on my overclocked 5850s.

Years ago my old ATi X800XTX was clocked to X850 speeds, stable and using a Arctic Cooler 5 and that would be in the double figures of 3D Mark, I guess I was wrong to assume that twin 6970's would be in double figures, right or would this be possible?

Have you got 2 crossbridges? Have you messed around with any settings and accidentally detuned them (or turned xfire off in CCC - I've done that lol)? Also I know that FurMark only tests crossfire if the tests are run in fullscreen mode, is there is similar situation with 3D Mark?

No, just the one. At first on reading the manuals etc, as you do when its something you have never done before I could not get into the bios, black screen until windows loads and output was on the second card via HDMI. However on swapping the bridge to the first channel(inner most)the screen would show everything and output was resumed to card 1. I have noticed that despite the cards being in crossfireX mode in the AMD Engine(CCC) there is no information on what the Crossfire set up is running at the system and 3D Mark says 250 core and 150 memory or something to that affect. Surely they should be the 890 and 1500 respectively?

Is there a tool I can use to view this information? ATiTool? Does that still exist?

Unless that raises the speeds of the gpu/ram then you're just adding electricity for no reason. Personally I'd use MSIAfterBurner to make a stable profile to work with. Set a sensible voltage (might say in the manual) and add to the gpu and ram speeds until it becomes unstable. I did this recently, might help

Well the box says upto 50% performance increase from Voltage Tweak, but the manual etc says nothing more about it..... quick set-up guide and all that. Me being me again thought maybe then I could turn them both to position 2 and watch the score double lol

It's definitely a good idea to look at doing your own bios overclock, you'll get a more stable, and probably faster, system out of it. When i tried the mobos auto oc it did silly things like lowering ram speeds... Give the cpu oc section a shout if you want to look into it (i've got the same mobo as you and a virtually identical processor if you want to pm me).

Ha ha... It did that, it dropped the voltage of the ram to 1.5v and the speed to 667mhz, despite this being a 1.65v set and 1600mhz, I know that the formula IV will only run stock 1333 but you can set the ram timings and voltage as I've done to run it at 800+ in their OC mode as you know, but if my ram is working at this rate now according to CPUz what can I do with the rest of the system to optimise it

You have been most helpful and again I thank you for your answers.

 

[JezEngland]

Nice effort.

I think your CPU OCing efforts will benefit with a very high performance cooler instead though I'm not sure if that's necessary, and the Win 7 Ultimate isn't necessary for a game, I think?

 

[Niz406]

Thanks, I didn't want to go water cooling route, so if you know of a better heat sink/fan set up that will do please let me know?

I only brought ultimate because it was only £20 more and has all the extra's, coming from a vista ultimate machine I didn't want to downgrade as it were.

 

[yassarikhan786]

If you want the best of the best, you could get the Noctua NH-D14 OR the Thermalright Silver Arrow.

 

[Niz406]

If you want the best of the best, you could get the Noctua NH-D14 OR the Thermalright Silver Arrow.

Now that looks awesome..... but would it fit in my system and not foul anything ?

 

[yassarikhan786]

Now that looks awesome..... but would it fit in my system and not foul anything ?

You have a 120mm fan at the back so I don't see why it wouldn't. The RAM you are using does not have high heat spreaders and it is on the compatibility list on the Noctua website.

You can check for yourself HERE

 

[Niz406]

Sweet thanks.... now where is the cheapest place to buy ??

 

[yassarikhan786]

It's £73 at Overclockers without shipping: NH-D14 at Overclockers

£65 at Scan: NH-D14 at Scan

£65 at Ebuyer (with Free Delivery): NH-D14 at Ebuyer

It's cheapest at Ebuyer, but it will take longer to get to you. If you don't mind the wait go for Ebuyer.

 

[Master&Puppet]

You have been most helpful and again I thank you for your answers.

Pleasure

Years ago my old ATi X800XTX was clocked to X850 speeds, stable and using a Arctic Cooler 5 and that would be in the double figures of 3D Mark, I guess I was wrong to assume that twin 6970's would be in double figures, right or would this be possible?

Sounds like 3D Mark have altered their scales! I doubt the x800 is as good as the 6970s!

No, just the one.

Is definitely worth spending the £4 and getting a second crossbridge off ebay. FPS will rise by ~2 straight away which is a massive % increase at lower fps rates (4-7% under 50 fps). Some people have also found that it adds stability to the system too.

I have noticed that despite the cards being in crossfireX mode in the AMD Engine(CCC) there is no information on what the Crossfire set up is running at the system and 3D Mark says 250 core and 150 memory or something to that affect. Surely they should be the 890 and 1500 respectively?

Is the CCC oc working? Can you see/alter both cards in the Performance > Graphics Overdrive section? That should give you the gpu/ram speeds just to make sure everything is reading correctly! It never hurts to try different programs out and see what results they get, or better still use a game to get a fps benchmark. Try it both ways with crossfire on and off in CCC, you should see the fps rise by 50-90% if everything is working.

Is there a tool I can use to view this information? ATiTool? Does that still exist?

ATITool doesn't work in Win7 64bit and I've tried a whole load of other tools recently. The only one that worked and the one that I would recommend in anycase is MSIAfterBurner (current build I've got installed is 2.1.0). It worked straight from install, has an awesome fan control editor and with an easy system file edit will let you mess with the volts and, with another easy edit, will work with crossfire.

Well the box says upto 50% performance increase from Voltage Tweak, but the manual etc says nothing more about it..... quick set-up guide and all that. Me being me again thought maybe then I could turn them both to position 2 and watch the score double lol

I think a major problem with many of the possible setups these days is the vast number of methods of overclocking. Take our setups for example, our mobos come with the go button and TurboV (which has 2 types of overclock in itself) the cpus have their own turbo mode and then you can edit the bios too. And to be brutally honest there's only one of ways which has actually remained stable whilst also giving me the best performance, I'm sure you can guess which! I don't really know what voltage tweak is doing to the gpu and that makes me wonder about how stable it is or on the otherhand whether there's wasted performace potential. Keeping it simple is the way forwards IMO.

Since our systems are pretty similar I'll give you my methods and settings to help get you virtually to the finish line straight from the go. Sounds like you've done this before but I'll just blurt it out anyway just incase

1. Go into the mobo bios and everything you need is on the extreme tweaker page.

2. Scroll down turning ON all load line calibrations (LLCs) and turning OFF all spread spectrums. You'll also want to turn TurboCore OFF.

3. Set the RAM. Tbh just leave it on auto, it won't mess around like the go button and other software does. Plus you won't get any more performance out of the system by locking the ram to a speed so it's not worth touching!

3. Set the overclock tuner to manual (if you did want to mess with the ram then set this to DOCP - Dram OverClock Profile).

4. You'll now be able to edit the cpu bus and maybe also the cpu ratio (that's the editable multiplier if you have the black edition processor). I think you should be aiming for a touch under 4ghz so set the hz to 248 and the type in 16.0 into the ratio (if that's an option).

5. Scroll down and set the cpu voltage to manual and edit the cpu voltage to 1.475 - that's the highest oem recommended setting listed here.

6. Boot back into windows and download Prime95 and this hardware monitor.

7. Run prime95 in blend across all cores, sit there and watch the core temperatures in the hw monitor. Your ceiling is 62C but I'd stop at 57C to allow for hotter weather. The cpu will reach it's thermal top at about the 18 minute mark but you'll have to run the test for about 25 mins to check that. If there aren't any crashes, errors and temps are fine then try adding 2 hz or take 2 off if the test fails.

8. As a final test run prime95 overnight or even for up to 24hrs to call it stable.

9. Of course if you have the Black Edition then you can mess around and beat your last by trying different multiplier and bus freq combinations.

10. Tbh I doubt you'll get above 3.6ghz within the thermal envelope without an aftermarket cooler so defo get yourself one of those. The ones the other guys have mentioned are the best you'll get on air.

As for GPU Ocing:

1. The info you need is here.

2. Do you know if your cards are the reference versions (what's your part code?)? If you have the the reference versions then the voltage will be locked and you'll have to oc on the stock.

3. If you can edit the voltage then the hard part will be figuring out what a safe setting will be. I've had a quick look around and people seem to think 1.2 - 1.3 is quite reasonable. Better if there is something in your manual

Of course adding volts and speed will add heat, again you might want to think about aftermarket cooling. Problem is that the first card will be working through the second card's exhaust so and aftermarket fan doesn't really help it. Therefore I recommend water cooling loops (certainly on the first card) if you are going to play with volts but I know you aren't keen on that. Otherwise start by getting the best speed you can on stock volts.

Once you've done both of those there's one last thing you can try - in mobo bios find the pci-e frequency in the extreme tweaker page and add a couple of hz to that. This esentially increases the speed at which the mobo and graphics cards talk to each other. Load windows and run an fps benchmark to see if it's made any improvement. I wouldn't go above 114 and often you won't see any improvement anyway.

You can also declutter system processes by downloading AMD Fusion. I use AMD balenced profile for everyday use but switch to gaming for games/multimedia/benching and then switch back to balenced when I'm done. It shuts down all unnessessary processes and programs on activating gaming. If you edit windows personnalisation it will automatically save it to which ever profile is running at the time.

M&P

 

[Niz406]

Sounds like 3D Mark have altered their scales! I doubt the x800 is as good as the 6970s!

Yeah GFX cards have come along way since the X800 days, back then it was all about clock speed and ram speed.... now its more about shader's, flops and all kinds of terminology that I don't understand.

Is definitely worth spending the £4 and getting a second crossbridge off ebay. FPS will rise by ~2 straight away which is a massive % increase at lower fps rates (4-7% under 50 fps). Some people have also found that it adds stability to the system too.

Now I'm with you,I have 3 bridges in total, 1 came with each GFX card and 1 with the mobo... can I run two bridges for just two cards? Are there any potential problems in running two bridges?

Is the CCC oc working? Can you see/alter both cards in the Performance > Graphics Overdrive section? That should give you the gpu/ram speeds just to make sure everything is reading correctly! It never hurts to try different programs out and see what results they get, or better still use a game to get a fps benchmark. Try it both ways with crossfire on and off in CCC, you should see the fps rise by 50-90% if everything is working.

I can see them when I accept the T's & C's but the core clock is 250mhz and the memory 150mhz for both. I have run Deus EX @ 1080P everything on high or full in settings with ease.

What other game can I test with ?

ATITool doesn't work in Win7 64bit and I've tried a whole load of other tools recently. The only one that worked and the one that I would recommend in anycase is MSIAfterBurner (current build I've got installed is 2.1.0). It worked straight from install, has an awesome fan control editor and with an easy system file edit will let you mess with the volts and, with another easy edit, will work with crossfire.

Downloaded MSIAfterBurner and it's reporting both cards running at 890mhz and 1375mhz respectively.

I think a major problem with many of the possible setups these days is the vast number of methods of overclocking. Take our setups for example, our mobos come with the go button and TurboV (which has 2 types of overclock in itself) the cpus have their own turbo mode and then you can edit the bios too. And to be brutally honest there's only one of ways which has actually remained stable whilst also giving me the best performance, I'm sure you can guess which! I don't really know what voltage tweak is doing to the gpu and that makes me wonder about how stable it is or on the otherhand whether there's wasted performace potential. Keeping it simple is the way forwards IMO.

Voltage Tweak

Full throttle overclocking with exclusive ASUS Voltage Tweak via Smart Doctor – boosting 50%* more speed, performance and satisfaction!

So they say to add the utils on the included CD and tweak my set up, but surely these options are available in Afterburner and CCC? By adding voltage do you think they would run cooler and quiter as they would theoretically become more efficient, or is that my failed logic?

Since our systems are pretty similar I'll give you my methods and settings to help get you virtually to the finish line straight from the go. Sounds like you've done this before but I'll just blurt it out anyway just incase

1. Go into the mobo bios and everything you need is on the extreme tweaker page.

2. Scroll down turning ON all load line calibrations (LLCs) and turning OFF all spread spectrums. You'll also want to turn TurboCore OFF.

3. Set the RAM. Tbh just leave it on auto, it won't mess around like the go button and other software does. Plus you won't get any more performance out of the system by locking the ram to a speed so it's not worth touching!

3. Set the overclock tuner to manual (if you did want to mess with the ram then set this to DOCP - Dram OverClock Profile).

4. You'll now be able to edit the cpu bus and maybe also the cpu ratio (that's the editable multiplier if you have the black edition processor). I think you should be aiming for a touch under 4ghz so set the hz to 248 and the type in 16.0 into the ratio (if that's an option).

5. Scroll down and set the cpu voltage to manual and edit the cpu voltage to 1.475 - that's the highest oem recommended setting listed here.

6. Boot back into windows and download Prime95 and this hardware monitor.

7. Run prime95 in blend across all cores, sit there and watch the core temperatures in the hw monitor. Your ceiling is 62C but I'd stop at 57C to allow for hotter weather. The cpu will reach it's thermal top at about the 18 minute mark but you'll have to run the test for about 25 mins to check that. If there aren't any crashes, errors and temps are fine then try adding 2 hz or take 2 off if the test fails.

8. As a final test run prime95 overnight or even for up to 24hrs to call it stable.

9. Of course if you have the Black Edition then you can mess around and beat your last by trying different multiplier and bus freq combinations.

10. Tbh I doubt you'll get above 3.6ghz within the thermal envelope without an aftermarket cooler so defo get yourself one of those. The ones the other guys have mentioned are the best you'll get on air.

Wow that's a tip and a half, I'm going to have to print that off and work through it, big thanks for the info its great of you to share it. Will doing that on an air cooler be ok?

As for GPU Ocing:

1. The info you need is here.

2. Do you know if your cards are the reference versions (what's your part code?)? If you have the the reference versions then the voltage will be locked and you'll have to oc on the stock.

3. If you can edit the voltage then the hard part will be figuring out what a safe setting will be. I've had a quick look around and people seem to think 1.2 - 1.3 is quite reasonable. Better if there is something in your manual

Of course adding volts and speed will add heat, again you might want to think about aftermarket cooling. Problem is that the first card will be working through the second card's exhaust so and aftermarket fan doesn't really help it. Therefore I recommend water cooling loops (certainly on the first card) if you are going to play with volts but I know you aren't keen on that. Otherwise start by getting the best speed you can on stock volts.

The cards are reference style, red and black heatsinks:6970 HD The switch is for increasing the voltage I believe and giving you more power to enable a stable overclock.

Once you've done both of those there's one last thing you can try - in mobo bios find the pci-e frequency in the extreme tweaker page and add a couple of hz to that. This esentially increases the speed at which the mobo and graphics cards talk to each other. Load windows and run an fps benchmark to see if it's made any improvement. I wouldn't go above 114 and often you won't see any improvement anyway.

You can also declutter system processes by downloading AMD Fusion. I use AMD balenced profile for everyday use but switch to gaming for games/multimedia/benching and then switch back to balenced when I'm done. It shuts down all unnessessary processes and programs on activating gaming. If you edit windows personnalisation it will automatically save it to which ever profile is running at the time.

M&P

Thanks AMD Fusion is now downloading, I;ve got quite a bit to get through now, massive thanks again for the info.... weekend is almost here so will get the chance to have a crack at it.

 

[Master&Puppet]

Now I'm with you,I have 3 bridges in total, 1 came with each GFX card and 1 with the mobo... can I run two bridges for just two cards? Are there any potential problems in running two bridges?

Yea that's the one, two bridges for two cards. The cards are designed to work fine with one connecting them but some reviews have found that adding a second could add to fps and stabilty (it's only a minor effect though), I haven't heard of any disadvantages to having two on two cards. I've got twin bridges on mine and have had no troubles, I just think that you might as well take advantage of the possibilty that using that spare bridge could make things better for free

I can see them when I accept the T's & C's but the core clock is 250mhz and the memory 150mhz for both. I have run Deus EX @ 1080P everything on high or full in settings with ease.

What other game can I test with?

Downloaded MSIAfterBurner and it's reporting both cards running at 890mhz and 1375mhz respectively.

Ok, forget about CCC and other programs that are reading the clock and mem speeds, those figures are in real time so they are the idling speeds, not the max possible run speeds. Those figures will be accurate but the graphics overdrive scale in CCC will only let you go so far which is why you need Afterburner. Make sure to turn off the graphics overdrive and fan control for both cards and don't bother looking in there again. The only reasons to keep CCC are that it's the driver package and it offers the ability to enable/disable crossfire.

As for game benching, quite a few these days come with it as an option when you boot the game. I used Shogun 2 bench most recently. Have a look around and see what you've got.

So they say to add the utils on the included CD and tweak my set up, but surely these options are available in Afterburner and CCC? By adding voltage do you think they would run cooler and quiter as they would theoretically become more efficient, or is that my failed logic?

I've just a look at this review and that voltage tweak utility isn't actually as impressive as it seems, it's still got a false ceiling of 950mhz. Personally I wouldn't bother installing smart doctor, the tweak utility or anything else really. Ideally you only want 1 program doing the business - multiple programs running at the same time with control over the same factors is just asking for confusion and instability. The one exception to that is CCC which you really need for the points mentioned above. Once you've set up MSI like in that post I keep linking I'd expect you to be able to push through the 950 barrier (and all the other barriers).

By adding voltage do you think they would run cooler and quiter as they would theoretically become more efficient, or is that my failed logic?

Not quite, More volts = more resistance = more heat. That means better cooling or louder fans.

Just as a note, there are only two ways of damaging kit when you overclock - you either set it to run too fast for the cooling and burn it out through overheating, but these days the kit has an automatic shutdown should the temps approach a critical figure, and in any case you WILL be watching the temps in a hardware monitor whilst you stress test it so realistically you aren't going to damage the card this way. The more dangerous aspect to OCing is putting too many volts through it (known as over volting) and frying the circuits - damaging the card this way is unpredictable since there's no guide pointing to the danger (like there is as you watch temps rise in situation 1). Having said that adding 0.1 or 0.2 (perhaps more) isn't going to damage or shorten the life span of the card (unless you were planning on keeping it for 15 years...)

To sum that up; a sensible over volt with the correct cooling will get the most out of your card without damaging it. I've had a look at the forums and the consensus seems to be that you should expect to get 950 from the core and maybe more on the stock volts alone so whether you think you need to go beyond that is up to you. I've read that if you want to make 1000 then you'll probs have to go to 1.2 or 1.225 and again the consensus is that that figure is a safe value. People have gone further, 1.3v 1.35v but I wouldn't use that as an everyday clock - you could be shortening the life of the card over long-term use - and you'd need some pretty series aftermarket cooling. I wouldn't go above 1.225v and to be honest just overclocking your cards to the mid 900s on stock volts will give you a powerful set up...

The cards are reference style, red and black heatsinks:6970 HD The switch is for increasing the voltage I believe and giving you more power to enable a stable overclock.

If you want to see what a safe over volt is from the manufacturers perspective then try installing smartdoctor and let voltage tweak do its bit. Take a note of what voltage it sets and put that figure into MSIAfterBurner. That's probably what I'd do. Remember to close smartdoctor so it doesn't interfere with MSIAB though (and probs uninstall it anyway).

Will doing that on an air cooler be ok?

OCing the cpu on one of those decent air coolers will be fine. You should get 4ghz quite happily. I couldn't get beyond 3.6 on my old air cooler without hitting the thermal ceiling but it was a cheap one. In any case you won't get better than the NH-D14 or Silver Arrow without going for watercooling so that's your limit anyway!

Thanks AMD Fusion is now downloading, I;ve got quite a bit to get through now, massive thanks again for the info.... weekend is almost here so will get the chance to have a crack at it.

Enjoy

M&P

 

[Niz406]

Hey Guys,

Bit of an update, system has changed only slightly..... it now has:

A Single 7970 HD Direct CUII
Crosshair Formula V
Samsung 24" LED Monitors in Eyefinity 3 x 1

Desktop: