High Temps with Prescott Mach II help please

[gorlinj]

Hey,

I need some help here. I just got a prometeia Mach II (a regular one, not GT and not ST) from kit-tronics. I'm using an IC7-G MAX II and a P4 3.2E Prescott cpu. At stock speeds (3.2Ghz) I am getting an Idle cpu temp of about -6C and when running a benchmarking utililty it jumps up to around 30C with prometeia reporting -49C. When overclocking to 4.0Ghz at 1.5875 V the sensors indicate Idle at +6C and load at +50C - prometeia reports -41C. This doesn't seem right to me. Also when running superpi, a second after starting, motherboard monitor shows a huge increase (25C) almost instantaneously. When opening microsoft word 2003, it jumps from 6C to 16C. These sensors are the ones built into the motherboard. I have pretty high ambient temps such as 40C case according to bios if this is effecting it. Could I have a bad contact and how can I tell? With my cpu kit installed, I cover about 90% of the processor, missing just the left sliver. Also, there is a hole in between the evaporator mounting clip and the upper mounting bracket after the head is in place. In other words, I can see straight in through that hole to the motherboard. Maybe I have it installed incorrecty? Also, what kind of temps and speeds should I expect from my current setup? Lastly, I have heard that you can add temp probes to the mach II - anyone have any info about where to get them and how to add them so I can get true temps? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!

 

[Firelord]

Sounds like you've not got enough downforce on the head so its not getting enough contact on the head. Remount using a single layer of seal string and using an extra 3-4 washers on each screw

 

[Phil Stanbridge]

Either that or you are experiencing the problem most do with the controller board? How old is the unit? Presumably its out of its warranty?

 

[gorlinj]

This is a new unit

I just bought this unit new last week so I wouldn't think it is the ocntroler board. COuld it be? Also does the seal string inbetween the mothertboard and the upper mounting bracket have an impact on temps? Also, what temps should I be getting at stock speed with my current setup?

 

[Firelord]

When I had a MIIGT I used to run it with 1 layer both top and bottom. I made sure I had a good seal but it meant the mounting kit was lower and therfore would get better contact with the head and CPU.

Not sure what temps should be with a Prescott

 

[maverik-sg1]

Back in my Prescott days I found that I was on teh ragged edge with my standard mach 2.

Temps would rise from -6 to plus 3 degrees under load (at 4.5Ghz of 3.4Ghz Prescott) - your readings suggest that you need better contact on the cpu.

For my Prescott I used a solid copper (2mm thickness) shim to place between the Mach2 head and the cpu - the helped improve the contact and maintain those temps - I also only used 1 layer of seal string and Arctic Ceramique.

Once you have done that you should find your are in overclocking heaven but be mindful that those sort of temps are not 24/7 useage and suggest you drop to 4ghz for constant running.

Also make sure you are using the lowest amount of volts possible on the cpu - this helps keep things cooler during normal operation and benching.

Good Luck

The Coach

 

[gorlinj]

Copper shim

Where can I get this copper shim and is it necessary to maintain proper contact on the cpu? Also when people are saying that they use one layer of seal string for both top and bottom, do they mean one for top and one for bottom or just one altogether? Lastly, if I can maintain like you said 6C load at 4.5 why can't I keep that 27/7, it seems like a nice temp to me?

 

[Firelord]

You need one layer per part so thats 1 layer on back mobo plate, one on front mobo plate and one on head.

 

[Ferret]

You should not need the extra copper, just put one layer of string around the kit that touches the front of the mobo and one around the head unit. If possible put it a bit to the side so minimal is trapped between the contacts. That will let the head get closer to the CPU. Next to it up TIGHT, dont use tools but hand tight (note too much will break the unit or CPU).

 

[Ferret]

Also I took my mates prescot to 4.75 with a Mach II ST... fairly high volts and it didn't go above -8ºC.

 

[gorlinj]

I must be missing something

Ok guys, I just took everything apart and started over. This time i used less seal string and the hole I was talking about is now gone so I guess I got it seated correctly this time. On the two screws I only have one washer instead of the two that I had originally (I have 8 of them). When conducting another test at stock speeds I get idle around -15C and loads reach in the -2 -3c range. When overclocking this to 4.00Ghz at 1.5875 Volts, idle is at -3C and load (with super pi) reaches +17C and doing a test with sandra reaches +25C. This is a great improvement over my last test but how can Ferret have gotten 4.75Ghz and not get it above -8C!! I don't understand this. Also, why is there such a difference between idle and load (we are looking at 30C). Evap temps are all below -40C. What am I doing wrong?

 

[maverik-sg1]

Don't take washers out, put them in - use all of them I use 8 on each side of mine - even trimmed the bolts too, but I dont think you need to go that far.

You should see a significant improvement then.

Everyhting else yyou have done sounds fine so far.

The shim I used was one I made from a sheet of copper purchased from a metal merchants near to where I live - worked a treat too.

Cheers

The Coach

 

[gorlinj]

Still not working

Ok, now I have 4 washers on each screw, thats all I have. I am getting some colder idle temps but there is still a big difference between idle and load cpu temps. What should be the maximum difference between the two? Is there any other way I can get the head closer to the cpu? If not, and I must use a shim, what kind should I buy, what size should I get it cut for, and how do i install it in my setup?

 

[Firelord]

Take a washer to your local DIY store and get a bag of same sized washers and use 6-8 washers each side.

 

[stocky]

Probably best just adding some washers, you shouldn't need the copper shim - that's just Mav being extreme

My 3.4 @ 4.8GHz didn't seem to get that toasty, and I had it volt modded. I think you have a contact issue. Also be careful of motherboard temperature readings, as they are not always accurate (I know that the IC7-Max3 reads high). Good luck getting it sorted

 

[stocky]

What's better at 4GHz under phase change - a 3.2 Northy (30 Capper) or 3.2 Prescott?

Just wondering, as I think that the 1024 Cache on the E becomes much more effective at the higher clock speeds?

 

[gorlinj]

Restatement of problem

I guess my real question is should i have 15ºC changes between idle and load at stock speeds? I have seen many people who claim they have gotten huge overclocks and their cpu temps never make it to the positives. How can it be then, that my load temps rise way into the positives? Now concerning contact with the cpu, I bought some new washers and I could definetly tell it was getting closer. I then turned it off when the temps kept rising again and I noticed the cooler was kinda stuck to the cpu. So I pulled it kinda hard and it would remove the cpu from the socket! In the end I ended up breaking a pin on the cpu and sent it off for repairs. Is this an indication of anything (good contact, not enough thermal...)? I also just bought a sheet of copper from Ace Hardware its meant for projects and stuff. I cut it out to 3cm x 3cm and it seems to be the same size as the cpu. When my broken one comes back should I try using this and taking off some washers at the same time? What really bothers me is that it seems I had good contact (I even pulled it out of the socket), yet my temps still differed too much and under load I was still at +10ºc. By the way I have an ABIT IC7-G MAX II motherboard and I am using MBM for my temps. Should I just try to get an actual temp probe and put it on the surface of the cpu to monitor actual temps? What about temp probes that can be added to the mach II? I'm sorry if this seems like alot at once, I just wanna get a good overclock because I just invested alot of money in this unit. By the way its not the GT, just the standard one.

Thanks!

 

[maverik-sg1]

a 15 degrees swing between idle and load is normal epecially when your are on the edge of the performance curve of teh mach, which with your kit you are.

The reason why you wont run 24/7 in a plus degrees situation is that the sub zero and over zero temp changes can actually create condensation around the cpu, whioch is why it should be avoided over prolonged perios of time.

The Coach

 

[gorlinj]

Im back with some disappointing results

Hey guys Im back again. Sorry about my period of inacctivity I haven't had time to deal with this really. So basically I have taken the entire thing apart and started from scrath again, this time keeping condensation in mind. I sprayed the entire back of the Mobo with COnfomal coating and the back where the cpu backplate is attached, I covered it with dielectric grease and a thin layer of Neoprene foam. On the front side I attached the bracket with one layer of seal string and covered everything inside with dielectric grease and put it in the middle of the socket and all the pins. Then I put some neoprene in the middle and all around the processor. I put the head on with one layer of seal string and I am using (i think) 4 washers on each screw. In addition I bought a copper sheet and cut out a square the size of the cpu to use as a shim. My temps still look really bad. When I boot up (into windows) I sometimes get in the -15 range (idle) or so but then when I begin dvd authoring or benching, it goes up into the +20s. Keep in mind this is at stock speed! (3.2 Presscott)

I know there is still something wrong but Im not sure what. My evap temps are really good; ive seen them reach -57 and right now at 100% load its -39. I am using silver 5 compound and Im not sure if I should switch to ceramique. Also I am not sure if i should apply to both sides (i.e. where the head meets the shim and where the shim meets the cpu) and how much to apply. Luckily enough I have gotten a hold of 4 temp probes meant for the mach II and I wanted to know where should i attach it to the cpu to be able to get accurate results (instead of bios and mbm5 readings). Also how would I attach it. I think once I can report my actual temps you can help me figure this out.

Thanks!!

 

[stocky]

Those temps are high, but you say -57 to +22, which are you receiving at present? My 3.4 Prescott at 4.7(?)GHz didn't even get that hot with ~1.7V going through it!

So something is definitely not right there. I have a feeling it may well be a gas problem - Someone who re-gases these things (Fatty) should be able to confirm this really.

The best way I have seen a temp probe fitted is by putting it under the IHS of the P4. I think Mav cut himself doing this though so be careful! There are photos somewhere of this I think...