Changing the Power chain for a Vapo

[K404]

I`m trying to put together an idea, but i`m having a bit of truble with the power chain.



Basically, what I`m thinking of is watercooling, but using the Vapochill to chill the water. One of the things I dont like about phase so far is the length of time it takes to boot up, so I was thinking about having a normal watercooled computer that would boot up as normal when the power button is pressed, then the vapochill can be started whever needed- it will go through its startup and add to the cooling when the pressure has built up. Thing is, how can I get this to happen using only one PSU if the Chillcontrol seems to suspend power to the Mobo from power on until the boot temp has been reached? The cooling wont be as good as normal phase, but I`ll be able to cool my GPU with this idea as well...A la Frozen Nipples



All advice welcome, as always,

Kenny

 

[Master_G]

If you are going to do it then you will need to change the evap, or at least add a form of cold plate onto it, the small surface area is totally unsuited to cooling volumes of liquid, it will form ice around the evap itself while hardly cooling any of the water further away from it.

Main problem i think is finding a good way of transferring the heat from the water (/antifreeze as water may freeze too easily).

After that you may need to regas the vapochill for increased as the PE is only rated up to 160W, which isnt that much load when you consider a CPU and GPU combined.

You can probably get the computer to boot normally if you just bypass the CC so that button on the front turns on the system as normal, the PSU should then come on and the vapochill unit will start.

If you do get it to work then you will probably need to insulate all the tubing as there is a good chance it will start to sweat with condensation (and you want to keep the cold inside the tubes)

How are the GPU and CPU going to be cooled as the vapochill gets down to temp?

G

 

[K404]

Hey G, was more-or-less waiting for you to see this

I thought about condensation on the tubing, that`ll all get insulated. My plan was to have a normal water-cooling setup with the evap head in my reservoir- the system will be watercooled until the Vapochill kicks in. I didnt see the point of paying £15 for what is basically a plastic tub, so I`m using a coffee jar Thats got a wide head, so the vapo would fit in no bother, and that links to my other new thread

I did think about the smal lsurface area of the evap head and how much of the water would be chilled by it, yes. Thats a sticking point. Short of making some kind of hedgehog cover for it to extend the reach of the evaps temps, I wasnt sure how to deal with that.

Seeing as a watercooling kit can take 15-20 degrees off the load temp, the Vapo PE`s ability to take around 160W can only help (in my mind) Its unlikely to be the most efficient use of a Vapo, but I *should* get some kind of result. My Vapo aint doin much atm anyway, coz of the processor holding back the OC.

Its something to do, cant hurt (hopefully)

Thanks for getting back to me

Kenny

 

[K404]

About the CC...should I leave it out completely? What do you mean by bypass? I dont use the reset cables on it- it works fine without. If I leave the CC out completely, which is possible from what I`ve read on asetek (from Mr Mole no less, I think) what kind of holding temps and compressor speeds would I get?

Thanks,

Kenny

EDIT: Now that I`ve thought about that, thats daft. The CC has to be involved, else the compressor wont trigger. Or at least, it wont without something in place of the CC to get power to it.

Have connected up the Vapo in line but using the stock fan. The vapo is just sitting there, bubbling A LOT coz theres absolutely no load on it. Evap temp reads -34at the mo. Have taken off the insulation, and the evap head is nice and icy. i`m hoping that aint bad.

When I powered up, the CC still held the system till the pressure had built up, what Do I need to change to stop this happening?

Thanks a lot,

Kenny

 

[Master_G]

It's been a while since i used that CC so i cant remember how to do it anymore, there is a way to stop the CC holding the motherboard in reset i am sure of it, but i cant remember how.

If you take the CC off you cant really set the hold temp as you dont have the software, but you can control the compressor speed using a resistor in the right place, so with using the 2000rpm and 3500rpm compressor speeds and the fans you should be able to tweak for the temp you want.

What kind of water loop will you be putting the head into?

G

 

[K404]

ATM, the loop looks to be a 2x12cm Heatercore, DD CPU block, Hydor L30 pump, GPU block still to be decided. 1/2" ID tubing. Cooling (again, ATM,) a 6600GT and a 3200+Winchester.

I read about the resistor technique earlier Thursday on aseteks site, could give that a go. short-circuit for 2000RPM rings a bell, I think.

Need a new heatercore before I can get going, which will be after next Thursday, so plenty of time to iron out bugs

i`m looking forward to DOING something instead of throwing ideas off the wall Might get a new proc to go with this as well.

Kenny

 

[Master_G]

Um, what are you putting a rad in there for?

As soon as the vapochill cools the water below ambient, the rad will just heat it back up to ambient, so your rad will be working against you.

G

EDIT - here is the info on the resistance values:

The resistance between the pins C and T set the compressor speed. The table below show the compressor speed at different resistances:

0 KOhm (wire) = 2000RPM

277KOhm = 2500RPM

692KOhm = 3000RPM

1523KOhm = 3500RPM

 

[K404]

The Rad is for pre-Vapo cooling. Or cooling when I dont want the Vapo on.

 

[Master_G]

So are you going to have some way of switching the flow away from the rad? Otherwise even without airflow it is going to hurt your temps and flowrate.

G

 

[K404]

Flowrate wont really matter, I dont think, but temp hindering I can see. A bit. To isolate the radiator, I would need another loop and a way of switching between the loops, a bit like a railway siding and points. This is beginning to get a bit silly. Grrrr. The ideas start simple but they sure as hell dont stay that way!

The spring bothers me more than losing temps due to the rad. It aint gonna be coming off, so short of taping it up well, I cant think of anything.

Maybe, instead of getting ahead of myself again I should get this new damn proc and say I have a Vapo thats doing something useful instead of thinking up all these great ideas that I cant implement

Thanks for helping me out G

Kenny

 

[fatty]

Also the rad will condensate and you will have to insulate it as well rendering it use less with nipples I will be installing a fridge control so you can set the temps ie with uber cooling and condensation or non uber without condensation if you are going to make a heat exchanger or res with the head in it I don't think it will work very efficiantly but do try it I would be interested in the outcome

Oh an master g have you spoken to chilly1 again yet about your mods??

 

[K404]

Hey Skinny!

If the rad has fans over it and my ambient is ~20, would that not be warm enough to stop condensation building up? Am thinking about the heat elements inside the Vapo hold-down. They`re ot giving out much heat, but stop the hold-down sweating. Same idea on the back of the mobo.

If the radiator is sweating, that`ll cool it down, so that might cool it down, at least to the point where it isnt hindering cooling?

TBH, If I get sub-ambient, I think I`ll be happy, as long as I dont kill anything in the process with condensation.

IF this gets tried, I will indeed post results. I doubt if I`ll ket a higher CPU ceiling, but lower temps would be nice

Cheers,

Kenny

 

[fatty]

I just thought if your water goes lower than 16 degrees then you will get condensation all I can picture is it raining inside your case if the rad is at the top nooooooooooooo

 

[Master_G]

The airflow over the rad should keep condensation down, as soon as the temp starts to get below ambient the rad will act to warm it back up again, so sub-ambient temps for any reasonable period of time is just not going to happen like this.

Thinking about it, this could actually turn out quite well, if you can get a way of transferring the heat efficiently to the PE, because the rad should warm the air to ambient if the temps start to go subambient (ie when idling) and the PE should be able to take some of the heat under load, which should help you get temps closer to ambient.

The longer you spend thinking and reading about phase change, the more you realise that nothing is ever simple with it really (and even less is simple once you start mixing watercooling and phase change)

Fatty - havent spoken to him recently, still cramming for my exams, got 6 next week then I'm almost done. He has said though that using a blend of 1270 (propylene) and R1150 (ethylene) for good temps. Dont think he can say what sort of mix though, which makes the mod more of a project and experiment than a simple mod, which is more than i can undertake atm.

G

 

[K404]

I just thought if your water goes lower than 16 degrees then you will get condensation all I can picture is it raining inside your case if the rad is at the top nooooooooooooo

Dont worry about that Sir, I mount my rads externally Although... I could maybe use that idea for a "tropical Rainforest" mod

Kenny

Even if this works, it`ll be a VERY expensive way of achieving ambient...

 

[K404]

Anyone got any ideas on how to hook up the vapo for powering it up independently of the comp then? Thats the main spanner to my plan. That and no £££ to buy the few bits I need to get this off the ground.

Kenny

 

[K404]

I`ve been thinking IF I can wire up some kind of home-made PSU lead that goes to the mobo as usual, but have a tap for the Vapochill onto the same PSU, if I start the vapo with a switch when the computer is on, how likely is that to have a big enough effect on the rails to crash the computer? (Tagan 480 PSU)

Thanks,

Kenny

 

[Master_G]

The vapochill might have an effect on the rails, especially at startup where is draws the most current. I cant remember off hand how many Amps a PE draws, it is between the SE and XE in terms of power consumption, so it is probably between about 6.6 and 8.8 when under load, but at startup they can draw up to about 12A, which can have an effect on your rails, it depends how hard up your PSU already is.

If you are feeling brave you could always add some pots to your rails and turn them up a bit to try and compensate.

Whether the effect will cause a crash depends how temperamental your system is, the closer your overclock is to the edge the more likely a crash will be.

G