BF4/Mantle Update

ShaunB-91

New member
Okay guys, seems there are a few different threads were games like BF4 are discussed with the addition of using Mantle so thought I'd start a new thread so all the info is here on view to you that I just found. Well saw, it wasn't a hard search.

AMD has boasted of very impressive performance figures which can be achieved thanks to its recently introduced Mantle API. Also the chipmaker revealed that three major game engines are being adapted with Mantle optimisations and around 20 games are now in development to make the most of your AMD hardware thanks to Mantle. AMD also showed for the first time an open, non-proprietary competitor for Nvidia's G-SYNC monitor technology.


Mantle games

AMD first detailed Mantle when the Radeon R9 and R7 series graphics cards were launched near the end of September. In November we heard about three major games developers coming on board to optimise their games for AMD hardware via Mantle and at CES we have had an update to these numbers and began to see the potential of the application of Mantle technology.


Now we know that three game engines support Mantle so far, these are; the Asura Engine, the Frostbite 3 Engine, and the Nitrous Engine. Upcoming games that will utilise Mantle include Battlefield 4, Thief, Star Citizen and Sniper Elite 3. AMD says in all there are about 20 games in development right now that are being optimised for Mantle.


In AMD's CES presentation the game Battlefield 4 was shown to be running up to 45 per cent faster thanks to the new development API. The Battlefield 4 update which is Mantle enhanced will be out later this month.





AMD FreeSync
Several companies have shown off Nvidia G-SYNC enabled monitors at the CES this year. Nvidia's monitor side feature helps make your gameplay even smoother by synchronising the monitor refresh rate to the graphics card output but requires an Nvidia GeForce GTX 650 Ti Boost or better.
AMD's FreeSync is a competitive technology that "doesn't require specialized hardware, or licenses to the display makers," reports TechPowerUp. FreeSync uses dynamic refresh rates that have been supported by the last three generations of AMD GPUs, it requires variable VBLANK timing which is a proposed addition to the VESA spec, which is already present in many modern displays.
AMD Catalyst drivers are said to already support dynamic refresh on supported displays but Nvidia needed the external hardware to implement this feature. However the Nvidia tech will "have an edge with its output quality," an AMD exec has reportedly confessed. The main difference is that as AMD's implementation is all computer host side so there is a bit more processing to do for your machine.
This week AMD demoed FreeSync on Toshiba laptops at the CES and a whitepaper filling us in on the finer details will be forthcoming. AnandTech had a look at a demo of the FreeSync technology and concluded the technology could "be a big win for AMD’s APUs," including those in the Xbox One and PS4.
 
video no longer works :(

Oh what, what did those fools do. I'll try and find another, to be honest not much happens in the video, I can't see what's different, it's just supposed to be 45% quicker using mantle on the same hardware spec as when not using it.
 
Oh what, what did those fools do. I'll try and find another, to be honest not much happens in the video, I can't see what's different, it's just supposed to be 45% quicker using mantle on the same hardware spec as when not using it.

45% is a very nice boost :) but i bet AMD are cherry picking results.

i'd like to see both AMD/Intel CPU with 290/780 tests and then again with an AMD cpu to make it fair.
 
Here is the AMD Presentation




Just a note on the Mantle thing, there seems to be some confusion on what hardware was being ran over on the Battlefield 4 forums with some, thinking it was ran at 4K Ultra Preset with a single A10 CPU and R9 290 and getting over a 100fps, which is never going to happen on this generation of cards since, it takes 3 Nvidia GTX780Ti's to 50fps at 4K Ultra Preset.

When you watch the video though and you put it to 1080p, and look at the Mantle demo you can see that it was ran at 1080p with 2 GPU's being used, but there is no mention of what detail setting was used iirc.

Whilst I think Mantle is potentially going to be good and may bring AMD's Mid Range cards back in to the race in the games that support it, Nvidia cards will be able to use it as well apparently so the performance boost made by Mantle on AMD cards may be wiped out when, they are ran on a Nvidia card but until it's released and people can actually try it we just don't know for sure.

I will wait till I can at least try it on my dad's card and then if I can use on my 780Ti's, I will see how it performs but until then I am not believing what AMD say as after all they said Bulldozer was going, to be the next best thing since sliced bread and look how that turned out.
 
Here is the AMD Presentation




Just a note on the Mantle thing, there seems to be some confusion on what hardware was being ran over on the Battlefield 4 forums with some, thinking it was ran at 4K Ultra Preset with a single A10 CPU and R9 290 and getting over a 100fps, which is never going to happen on this generation of cards since, it takes 3 Nvidia GTX780Ti's to 50fps at 4K Ultra Preset.

When you watch the video though and you put it to 1080p, and look at the Mantle demo you can see that it was ran at 1080p with 2 GPU's being used, but there is no mention of what detail setting was used iirc.

Whilst I think Mantle is potentially going to be good and may bring AMD's Mid Range cards back in to the race in the games that support it, Nvidia cards will be able to use it as well apparently so the performance boost made by Mantle on AMD cards may be wiped out when, they are ran on a Nvidia card but until it's released and people can actually try it we just don't know for sure.

I will wait till I can at least try it on my dad's card and then if I can use on my 780Ti's, I will see how it performs but until then I am not believing what AMD say as after all they said Bulldozer was going, to be the next best thing since sliced bread and look how that turned out.

a 45% performance boost already seems unlikely and 100fps at 4k ultra is just absurd.
i'd like to see some legit benchmarks, no cherry picking, no estimates, just something to rely on.
 
That's what I was thinking and that's why when I saw the 1080p bit that someone else mentioned in the thread on the, Battlefield forums it made sense then that it wasn't ran at 4K Ultra on a single R9 290.

As I say I will see what it's like on my dads R9 280X and if it will run on Nvidia cards what it's like with, my 780Ti's but since I am already hitting 200fps at 1080p Ultra in TDM and Domination games, with me also getting on average 150fps on a full 64 slot Conquest server it's kind of pointless for me.

Think that new Asus 1440p monitor will be getting bought at some point this year though as the 780Ti's are wasted at 1080p :(
 
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That's what I was thinking and that's why when I saw the 1080p bit that someone else mentioned in the thread on the, Battlefield forums it made sense then that it wasn't ran at 4K Ultra on a single R9 290.

As I say I will see what it's like on my dads R9 280X and if it will run on Nvidia cards what it's like with, my 780Ti's but since I am already hitting 200fps at 1080p Ultra in TDM and Domination games, with me also getting on average 150fps on a full 64 slot Conquest server it's kind of pointless for me.

Think that new Asus 1440p monitor will be getting bought at some point this year though as the 780Ti's are wasted at 1080p :(

i don't think mantle can run on nvidia as it is a different architecture however it is open and therefor nvidia could create a version for their cards.

best thing that can come out of this is forcing Microsoft into fixing directx

finally got to watching the CES video and wow.... they basically go "our cards are selling good and look BF4 on mantle with 45% better performance (insert 10 seconds clip) shiny shiny"

doesn't actually give any numbers of FPS, what card(s) where used or well anything.
 
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i don't think mantle can run on nvidia as it is a different architecture however it is open and therefor nvidia could create a version for their cards.

best thing that can come out of this is forcing Microsoft into fixing directx

finally got to watching the CES video and wow.... they basically go "our cards are selling good and look BF4 on mantle with 45% better performance (insert 10 seconds clip) shiny shiny"

doesn't actually give any numbers of FPS, what card(s) where used or well anything.

nvidia won't bother and because of that mantle won't take off, just like physx never took off and gsync won't either.
something like this needs to come from an independent developer so everyone can adapt it without hurting their dignity.
 
^^^ They have kind of made a bit of a big deal about it not being tied to their architecture. I remember reading an article a while back (can't remember where) quoting an AMD spokesperson saying that most features of Mantle will work with most modern GPUs, which has to include Nvidia.

Also, the 45% performance improvement that's being touted has some marketing speak built in, namely the "Up to" language. We all know the tricks ISPs in particular play with that language, needless to say, best to be wary of that one. ;)
 
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^^^ They have kind of made a bit of a big deal about it not being tied to their architecture. I remember reading an article a while back (can't remember where) quoting an AMD spokesperson saying that most features of Mantle will work with most modern GPUs, which has to include Nvidia.

I heard of this too.

Even if this IS true, Seeka is right. It should have been made by a separate company. Not AMD or Nvidia. It just screws people over/has no chance to be used when its done by either company (time will tell on the AMD stuff, but I have a feeling that something will only be AMD limited).
 
I heard of this too.

Even if this IS true, Seeka is right. It should have been made by a separate company. Not AMD or Nvidia. It just screws people over/has no chance to be used when its done by either company (time will tell on the AMD stuff, but I have a feeling that something will only be AMD limited).

well it will obviously be biased towards AMD cards, would be bad marketing for them to not have an advantage from their own technology.
well, time for directx to step up.
 
I heard of this too.

Even if this IS true, Seeka is right. It should have been made by a separate company. Not AMD or Nvidia. It just screws people over/has no chance to be used when its done by either company (time will tell on the AMD stuff, but I have a feeling that something will only be AMD limited).
Well the best people to make a low-level API that takes advantage of a GPU better are the very people who make that GPU, since they're the ones that know it best. I'd love to see them open the whole thing up just like OpenGL, but I'm not sure how likely that is. ^_^

I guess in an ideal world, I suppose it'd be nice if AMD and Nvidia came together to create Mantle (or something similar), and open it up like OpenGL, but that ain't going to happen any time soon.

Nonetheless, it was very interesting the way Mantle came out of nowhere with massive commitment from EA. How it'll play out is anyone's ball game yet. I reckon I'll stick with AMD for my next GPU upgrade just to see.
 
Thing is though Mantle is in the hands of the developers and not in the hands of AMD.
It's designed to run on GCN but there is nothing stopping the developers from making it run on something else.
Whats more worrying is Nvidia's gameworks program where it's controlled by Nvidia and not the developer of the games.

Whether Mantle does give "up to" 45% performance or not though, any performance gain is a good thing. If Mantle does take off though it may start off with a small performance gain but as developers learn how to optimize it in better ways and make better use of it then it can only grow and get better. :)
 
I just hope with the BF4 Mantle release that it don't break more than it fixes as EA can't seem to implement anything without wrecking something else although that being said I am kinda looking forward to seeing what it really can do, and if it boosts performance as claimed whilst still playing smooth.
 
Thing is though Mantle is in the hands of the developers and not in the hands of AMD.
It's designed to run on GCN but there is nothing stopping the developers from making it run on something else.
Whats more worrying is Nvidia's gameworks program where it's controlled by Nvidia and not the developer of the games.

Whether Mantle does give "up to" 45% performance or not though, any performance gain is a good thing. If Mantle does take off though it may start off with a small performance gain but as developers learn how to optimize it in better ways and make better use of it then it can only grow and get better. :)

I have to agree, Nvidia's Gameworks program is a much bigger thing to worry about. Assassin's Creed Black Flag still lacks an AMD optimized driver.

I hope more strategy game developers adopt AMD mantle, as the cpu benefits of mantle are simply staggering. One other good thing about mantle games will be that crossfire should work like a dream :).

I look forward to seeing how mantle actually performs and not this 45% best case scenario nonsense, I want to see an average!
 
While using Mantle an 8350 is on par with a 4770k. I quote this from Oxide Games. The people making the Nitrous game engine.

About the strategy games... Nitrous is being made for these types of games and from what i hear this will be a very strong engine. Only problem is Oxide does not want to license to many people. Which is unfortunate because I am sure franchises like Total War, Command and Conquer, or Starcraft would benefit from an engine like this.
 
I just hope with the BF4 Mantle release that it don't break more than it fixes as EA can't seem to implement anything without wrecking something else although that being said I am kinda looking forward to seeing what it really can do, and if it boosts performance as claimed whilst still playing smooth.
the game is already wrecked, how much more can they break.
 
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