Best Pump & Res Combo in a 5" bay, for 2 rad loop? (pluss other help needed)

[eTanium]

Hello all! Long time watcher (TimeToLiveCustoms’s YouTube), first time posting on the forums.

I’ve been wanting to build a water cooled PC for many years now, but I haven’t had the knowledge to do so. Over the last month or so, I’ve watched/read a bunch of stuff in regards to the subject, and I have decided on a few things. First I picked my case, processor, and motherboard (which I will discuss later – input welcomed). Then I wanted to see what type of cooling options I had. I searched YouTube for those who had the same case that I want, and what they could fit in it. At that point, I came across one of TimeToLiveCustoms’ videos (Cooler Master CM690 Review) that I hadn’t seen earlier, and it made things so much easier!

Still, even with all of these informative videos, I’m still a little lost as to what parts I’ll need. I was hoping that someone could take pity on me and give this thread (getting longer by the second) a once over.

Question 1: What type of pump will I’ll need for my loop (CPU and GPU cooling)?

I researched the Alpha Cool ceramic pumps (mentioned in the video), but people didn’t seem to like them very much due to them being loud and temperamental. I’m tight on room in this case, so a good single or double 5” bay reservoir and pump combo will be needed.

I’ve found a full XSPC Raystorm RX240 Extreme kit on FrozenPC, which has the Swiftech MCP655-B 12v (1500l/h) Water Pump, but could it handle my loop? I’m looking for a cool and quiet PC, so it would be important for the pump to be as quiet as possible.

Would it be cheaper to buy all the parts separately? I see that the XSPC kit comes with compression fittings which are more expensive. I would go with some better looking barbs and be just as happy.

Question 2: Fittings leaking?

I see that the fittings have some rubber o-rings, but are they enough to stop leaks? Would some Teflon tape help/hurt with leaks? I could see how it could become a problem if pieces of Teflon were to get into the rad and clog it up, no?

Question 3: Make sure everything posts pre-water cooling, or go right for it?

I have read about how some of the components I’m looking to buy (motherboard/cpu/ram) have failed for several users multiple times in a row. I’m looking for something that is going to go together without any problems. I would hate to get all my water fittings and things in place, and boot for the first time, just to realize that I have a dead component somewhere. I guess I have already made my decision on that one, but I still wanted to see if anyone had any thoughts about it.

Question 4: Different types of OS installations?

I’m looking to run Windows 7. Is there a way that I can have the OS, and all the updated motherboard/video card drivers already setup on a USB thumb stick, and have them all install at once? It’s been a few years since my last build, and things have changed. I always installed windows onto the hard drive, and then loaded the mobo/video drives on after (downloading them from their respected websites).

Well, this post is getting a bit longer than I had planned (and a bit off topic from water cooling - sorry), but this is a lot to take in at the moment. I will stop asking questions and end with listting out the components I’m looking to use/water cool.

Thanks for taking a interest in my build!!!

-Ethan

CASE:

COOLER MASTER RC-692-KKN2 CM690 II Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

CPU:

Intel Core i7-2600K Sandy Bridge 3.4GHz (3.8GHz Turbo Boost)

MOBO:

ASUS P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3

RAM:

G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 16GB (4 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Low Voltage Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9Q-16GBXM

VIDEO: ???? – I haven’t looked into that. Suggestions are welcome. Looking for a strong single card (no sli/crossfire), that can be water blocked, and around $500.

POWER SUPPLY:

CORSAIR Enthusiast Series TX750 V2 750W ATX12V v2.31/ EPS12V v2.92 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC High Performance Power Supply

 

[nothingspecial]

Firstly, welcome

Secondly, it's definitely worth taking a skip back through the older TTL vids, as there's a wealth of information about many, many things. Mostly computer related, but some not.

Thirdly, I've dug you out some videos that should help you with your new rig:

http://youtu.be/5QweDb-p2qQ - Coolermaster 690-II White review - same case minus a few addiitions, as covered in the black/white vid.

http://youtu.be/_YzbR3cHiNE - Snow Drift - A watercooled rig that Tom built in a 690-II last year. Shows what you can do, and what you can't (ie. a XSPC RX240 won't fit in the roof of the 690-II)

http://youtu.be/W6qpkigby5w - Beginner's Guide To Watercooling, again in the 690-II (and http://youtu.be/GzBBjkIw7wU is part two)

Finally, a few little tips.

- As said above, a 60mm thick radiator won't go in the roof of the 690-II, even with the fans in the top section (above the metal case, but within the plastic part). On that subject..

- Only 120mm fans fit in there, 140s have to go inside the case itself.

- Take a look at the Corsair AX power supplies, as they're fully modular, and it'll save a lot of time with cable management around the back of the case

- Personally, I'd be getting a Z77 board just for the few extra features, the 2600k will still work in it just fine, and

Keep those in mind, and the tricks you learn from those videos, and you'll be fine.

Don't forget to post the pics in the rig gallery or the project log!

 

[Master&Puppet]

Question 1: What type of pump will I’ll need for my loop (CPU and GPU cooling)?

What you will find is that there are basically only 2 models - just with different branding. The one you linked is the same as a laiing D5. This is a top of the range pump and will definitely do you, in fact it is a little overkill.

The other type is the DDC range which look like this. For your build a res/pump combination like this (the 18w pump version) would be perfect but obviously the D5 would be fine too.

Question 2: Fittings leaking?

I've got 2x DDC 18w in an xspc res and the o-rings do the job fine. You just have to be sure that you keep the o-ring in the groove when you screw the pump into the res.

Question 3: Make sure everything posts pre-water cooling, or go right for it?

It never hurts to do a dry run - it is a lot of hassle to put a waterblock on a gpu and then find out you need to RMA it! Personnally I also test the watercooling components for leaks before I assemble it on the system too - just attach the pump to each block or radiator one by one with a spare short length of tubing. You can do this to flush the components before first use too.

Question 4: Different types of OS installations?

Yes people do use USB sticks to boot windows. I'm sure you could also edit the file with the latest drivers too but I've never tried that. Personally I just keep a downloaded installation file for the latest drivers on my external HDD and just run through them one by one after the install but I know there are people on this site who are a lot better than I am at software...

I'll just comment on the bits I have something to say on

CPU:

Intel Core i7-2600K Sandy Bridge 3.4GHz (3.8GHz Turbo Boost)

RAM:

G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 16GB (4 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Low Voltage Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9Q-16GBXM

MOBO:

ASUS P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3

What are you doing with this PC? If it is just for gaming then you only need an i5 and 8gb of RAM. Also if this a new build entirely then it might be worth going for Ivy Bridge (z77/3570k)

VIDEO: ???? – I haven’t looked into that. Suggestions are welcome. Looking for a strong single card (no sli/crossfire), that can be water blocked, and around $500.

7950 with out a question of doubt

POWER SUPPLY:

CORSAIR Enthusiast Series TX750 V2 750W ATX12V v2.31/ EPS12V v2.92 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC High Performance Power Supply

Perfect!

Hope that helps.

 

[eTanium]

Thank you both for the kind and informative replies!

Yes, Steve, I'm excited about all of this (but my wallet isn't! haha).

I did watch all those videos already, but will re-watch them. I was up until 5 am last night looking for that Snow Drift build but didn't find it! I am aware that I will need to use a smaller radiator in the top of the case, as described in Tom's review. I plan on using two 120 fans up there, with a 30mm rad.

Then, I'd like to have the XSP 60mm rad in the floor of the case. I did notice that it is going to be REALLY tight, but I am sure I can get it all to fit, as Tom did.

As for the power supply, the AX power supplies are $100 more expensive, due to being modular. All the modular means is that you can put the cables where you'd like in the back of the power supplies, no? I can see how this can help with cable management - leaving out cables you don't need - but for the price, I need to start pinching pennies here. If I can fit either, and just hide the extra wires that I don't use on the non-modular power supply, I may need to do that. Still, I will consider both.

As for the ASUS SABERTOOTH Z77 Mobo... well, I looked into that, and it is a bit more money (again, I need to pinch a bit). It seems to have less options on it, and in all honesty, it's a bit ugly, haha. Still, it has that 5 year warranty that might be worth the extra $. Thanks for the recommendation. I am going for a blue theme here. The case I want comes with Blue LED's installed. I want to keep that theme going with blue hoses for the water cooling, and white/blue LED's for the cpu water block. The blue of the ASUS P8Z68-V PRO, and the ram I am thinking of, will all work very nicely there.

If/When I get this system built, I will be sure to post pictures.

Master&Puppet, in response to some of your recommendations and questions, I am looking to use this rig for three things:

A) Home entertainment PC

Gaming Beast

C) Video editing/Web design graphics and programming.

I want this system to last me about 5-10 years (10 is pushing it), which is why I have all the extra ram and such.

Honestly, ivy is too new, and will be too expensive. I need this PC within the month, because I just got laid off of work, and this will be my last month with a paycheck. I am using the layoff money that they are giving me to build this PC (which I wanted to build several months ago anyway), so that I can have one to do some freelance work until I find a new job (as well as game my ass off - pardon my French).

So, with that in mind....

The Laing DDC pump pushes only 600 L/H, that should be enough for a two radiator rig cooling CPU and GPU? I looked them up online, and they seemed a little loud, but that might be due to poor bleeding of the lines.

I am definitely going to get the XSPC Dual 5.25" Bay Reservoir, but I am not sure which pump to go with. I am leaning towards the Swiftech MCP655, so that if I add in loops in later builds, this beast of a pump will not need upgrading. Still, I am not sure if I should go with the multi speed one, so that I can keep it quiet if I want to just watch a movie, or pump up the flow when I am gaming. I am a little confused about the XSPC Dual bay res. I am not sure I will be able to adjust the MCP655 multi speed if I choose to get it, not without removing it from the res that is. This would be a huge pain, and would make me want to just get the standard MCP55, and not save a few bucks. From what I understand, the res has two compartments: one for the coolant, and one for the pump itself? So, I should be able to get to the speed setting screw without flushing my system dry? If you have any insight on that, I would value your knowledge.

As for your other comments, our opinions seem to be inline. Once I finalize what I want to do with this water cooling, I will be researching graphics cards and hard drives. I will surely take a look at the 7950.

Thanks again to you both!

 

[nothingspecial]

As for the ASUS SABERTOOTH Z77 Mobo... well, I looked into that, and it is a bit more money (again, I need to pinch a bit). It seems to have less options on it, and in all honesty, it's a bit ugly, haha. Still, it has that 5 year warranty that might be worth the extra $. Thanks for the recommendation. I am going for a blue theme here. The case I want comes with Blue LED's installed. I want to keep that theme going with blue hoses for the water cooling, and white/blue LED's for the cpu water block. The blue of the ASUS P8Z68-V PRO, and the ram I am thinking of, will all work very nicely there.

I was thinking the P8Z77-V PRO or similar, only really from a future-proofing standpoint. That way you can grab a 3770k cheap when the next Intel chip appears and not have to get a new board

 

[eTanium]

I was thinking the P8Z77-V PRO or similar, only really from a future-proofing standpoint. That way you can grab a 3770k cheap when the next Intel chip appears and not have to get a new board

Ok, I looked into the Z77's, and they are the same price point as the Z68's (roughly); I would have expected them to cost a lot more for the newer IVY socket. Yeah, the 68's looked a lot cooler (the heat sinks around the processor), but I can look past that for better performance.

What does the ASUS P8Z77 V-PRO have that the standard ASUS P8Z77-V doesn't have, aside from the $30 higher price?

I don't see much difference in the i7 2600k Sandy and i7-3770K Ivy, aside from power consumption and such. I read that Ivy runs hotter than Sandy. Hell, I doubt I would be able to get my hands on a 3770k any time soon. Newegg has them sold out. I didn't even know they were out yet! I see that Amazon has a couple of them.

What I am interested in is PCI 3. I haven’t built a PC in about 7 years, so I haven't been keeping up with all of the new PCIe connections and such. I read this on the Z77's description:

The latest PCI Express bus standard delivers improved encoding for twice the performance of current PCIe 2.0. Total bandwidth for a x16 link reaches a maximum of 32GB/s, double the 16GB/s of PCIe 2.0 (in x16 mode).

The Z77 lists that it is "PCIe 3.0 Ready," but what does ready really mean? It has 3.0 slots, right? I read on the details of the board:

Expansion Slots:

PCI Express 3.0 x16: 2 (x16/0 or x8/x8)

So, that means that the board has two PCIe 3.0 slots that run at x16 mode (which i don't know what x16 vs x8 means, aside from being faster).

I am guessing that this will relate to the speed of the information going to and from the motherboard to the graphics card? Do modern graphics cards utilize PCIe 3.0? I am going to research this on youtube in a minute.

I'm also hoping to find a graphics card that supports "LucidLogix Virtu MVP" so that I can have the integrated graphics hooked up to my TV via HTMI, the discrete graphics card hooked up to my monitors, and being able to switch back and forth between the two without removing and transferring cables (like I do on my old rig).

Wow, I have so much to learn and catch up on! I was hoping to ask some questions about RAM frequencies and over clocking, but I will hold off on that.

 

[S_I_N]

you say you want it to last 5-10 years but you're looking at 1-2 yr old tech. Bro go with IB proc and a Z77 mobo as the prices are so close to each other it isnt worth buying old. Plus the new Z&& chipset handles memory better (editing) and can handle using all 4 slots better. Just to many small perks that they add up to enough to make a new pc build worth it if your upgrading from older tech.

 

[eTanium]

you say you want it to last 5-10 years but you're looking at 1-2 yr old tech. Bro go with IB proc and a Z77 mobo as the prices are so close to each other it isnt worth buying old. Plus the new Z&& chipset handles memory better (editing) and can handle using all 4 slots better. Just to many small perks that they add up to enough to make a new pc build worth it if your upgrading from older tech.

Yeah, I have been looking into the ivy and z77:

http://youtu.be/JDTTJjdA9Ig

This kid is a damn machine gun, LOL, but he knows his shiz. Now, if I could get my hands on any Ivy. I would prefer to order everything off of Newegg and get it all in one box, but if I have to, I'll split things up.

 

[S_I_N]

I use Newegg alot for main components and like Performance PC's, Frozen CPU, and Sidewinder Computers for water cooling stuff. to me its a no brainer 319$ for a 2600K or 325$ for a 3770k mobo's are real close as well.

Linus is good yeah but keep in mind he does alot of research prior to a vid plus he has speaking points he uses that are provided by the manu's. Not saying he dont know his shit cause obviously he does know alot, but in this industry you have to know what ur talking about if you do what he does.

Good Luck on finding a job bro i know its tuff out there.

 

[Master&Puppet]

Then, I'd like to have the XSP 60mm rad in the floor of the case. I did notice that it is going to be REALLY tight, but I am sure I can get it all to fit, as Tom did.

360x60mm would be good.

As for the power supply, the AX power supplies are $100 more expensive, due to being modular. All the modular means is that you can put the cables where you'd like in the back of the power supplies, no? I can see how this can help with cable management - leaving out cables you don't need - but for the price, I need to start pinching pennies here. If I can fit either, and just hide the extra wires that I don't use on the non-modular power supply, I may need to do that. Still, I will consider both.

Yea that's fine, personally I use the TX series. It's a good balence between modular and price for me.

The Laing DDC pump pushes only 600 L/H, that should be enough for a two radiator rig cooling CPU and GPU? I looked them up online, and they seemed a little loud, but that might be due to poor bleeding of the lines.

I am definitely going to get the XSPC Dual 5.25" Bay Reservoir, but I am not sure which pump to go with. I am leaning towards the Swiftech MCP655, so that if I add in loops in later builds, this beast of a pump will not need upgrading. Still, I am not sure if I should go with the multi speed one, so that I can keep it quiet if I want to just watch a movie, or pump up the flow when I am gaming. I am a little confused about the XSPC Dual bay res. I am not sure I will be able to adjust the MCP655 multi speed if I choose to get it, not without removing it from the res that is. This would be a huge pain, and would make me want to just get the standard MCP55, and not save a few bucks. From what I understand, the res has two compartments: one for the coolant, and one for the pump itself? So, I should be able to get to the speed setting screw without flushing my system dry? If you have any insight on that, I would value your knowledge.

Swings and roundabouts really,

The difference between 600lph and 1200 is something like 1/2C. I've never owned a D5 but this is my impression of it:

What you will find is that you'll run the D5 on one of the lowest 3 settings anyway because otherwise it does get a little loud - at these settings the noise difference between a D5 and DDC is negligable. Pumps are usually noisy because they have been mounted wrong, or not enough vibration absorbing material (if any) has been placed on the mounts. Once you have a play around neither pump should be louder than your fans when they are spinning at <1000 rpm speeds.

The other difference between the D5 and and DDC is the pressure head. The DDC has a much greater pressure and so its flow rate will be less affected by waterblocks and rads. In truth though either pump will not have any issues with your system.

You can also attach these pumps to a fan controller in order to control the specific speed at which they run. I know that there are PWM models of the DDC but I'm not aware of PWM models for the D5 however the variable D5 should be able to run low enough to run it. But there is no major reason to want to control the flow rate anyway in my opinion. If you got the D5 you'd probably set it to number 2 and leave it.

Either the D5 vario or the DDC pumps will be fine but the standard D5 will be really quite a lot louder than it needs to be since it will be running flat out all the time

 

[eTanium]

I use Newegg alot for main components and like Performance PC's, Frozen CPU, and Sidewinder Computers for water cooling stuff. to me its a no brainer 319$ for a 2600K or 325$ for a 3770k mobo's are real close as well.

Linus is good yeah but keep in mind he does alot of research prior to a vid plus he has speaking points he uses that are provided by the manu's. Not saying he dont know his shit cause obviously he does know alot, but in this industry you have to know what ur talking about if you do what he does.

Good Luck on finding a job bro i know its tuff out there.

Yeah, I know he researches things first, and has talking points and such, but that's what I want out of an informational video! I like how fast he presents the information, so that I can make a quick assessment of it all. I don't like when videos get dragged out and boring.



Also, you're right, for the extra $100 or so, I could be rocking PCIe3! I thought the prices gaps would be much more dramatic, but I was wrong.



Thanks for the wishes on the job search. I still have a couple months severance, which I hope to use to build this PC, finish my online portfolio, and...maybe...enjoy a couple weeks off in the sun, haha. Then I need to get back on the horse.

Master&Puppet, yeah, I am still not sure about which pump to go with and all that...so much researching, I just need to bite the bullet and start ordering things. I am going to order the water cooling stuff last.



I want to have the system setup, running, and tested with air for a while before I water cool it. So, I have been looking into graphics cards (one of the last pieces of my puzzle here).

I've been looking at the GeForce GTX 680 2GB. It's at the very top of my price range, but I can swing that. I hear the fan is quiet and quite good, but I still would like to water block it.



What is the best manufacturer to look into on for the 680? I've owned an EVGA and I had never had any issues with them. There is also the Galaxy. Are they all the same, aside from branding and warranty?

 

[eTanium]

Well, I wanted to update some folks on this project.

I have the case and the i7 Ivy in, but am still waiting on all the other parts to be delivered.

In the meantime, I've been researching more about water cooling.

I've decided the following components (remember, I am in the USA, so I would like to buy nationally to keep shipping costs down):

Bottom RAD: XSPC RX240 Extreme Performance Radiator Version 2

Top RAD: XSPC EX240 Copper Dual-Fan Radiator

Pump/Res: XSPC X2O DC-750 - Dual 5.25" Bay-Res Pump/Reservoir Combo

CPU Block: XSPC Raystorm CPU Waterblock - Intel

A few notes/questions:

1) In some of the above videos, Tom stated that he didn't like the EX RADs due to the high fin count. I am looking for good temps, but low noise level as well - should I go with the RS versions (not sure they have one in 60mm)?

2) Tubing. I am looking to use XSPC High Flex Hose 1/2″ ID, 3/4″ OD (19/12.7mm) - Blue / UV Blue tubing, but

A.) I can't find any pure black compression fittings that support a 3/4" OD, (found XSPC Black Chrome but they don't sell 90 degree barbs for them) and

B.) I see that they this tubing is only rated to Max Temperature of 60C. Should the loop ever end up getting that hot?

3) Fan recommendations. Again, I'm looking for good temps, but quieter operation, in 4 (two per RAD) 120mm fans. I have been reading up on this forum, and I came across these: Corsair Air Series

Any help on this is appreciated!

Thanks,

-Ethan