AS5 application XFX 7950 problem

[hawkinsa21]

Hi guys,

I rarely post anywhere these days, grown old with a house full of kids etc. But, been getting back into PC gaming as I've learned to juggle time a bit better

So, I have an XFX 7950. Its 14 months old now and outside of warranty, and I've not really been hitting it that hard. But the stock temps weren't great. It was idling in the low 40's and the ambient temp in my living room isn't high. It was hitting over 80 degrees on stock speeds in Far Cry 3 and after an hour it once hit 87, which I know is a couple of degrees over the manufacturers rated 85. After reading posts elsewhere about stock TIM application sucking on these cards and people reapplying their own with good success, I took the plunge to do it myself.

So I took it apart and low and behold the manufacturers TIM application was a mess; all over the place, and in great big wads and there were a couple of small areas of no TIM contact between GPU and HS at all. Took a good amount of cleaning. I carefully reapplied my trusty AS5 (I know there is better but it is what I had), and carefully reassembled. Stock temps now high 40s and Far Cry 3 hit 97 degrees!!!

I know AS5 has a cure time, but an immediate 10 degree increase into a dangerous zone looks bad. I carefully took apart and checked the contact. The AS5 contact was even and precise and covers the entire GPU die, as good as I've ever gotten it so I don't think there is an issue with HS to die contact / pressure. I cannot see any evidence of uneven spread or air bubbles. The vram thermal pads that came with the card were still attached OK as well. I'm hesitant to just lump it on like the manufacturer did, but theirs certainly seemed to be better.

Any suggestions welcome! Options I see are new thermal paste as the AS5 is probably 8 years old (although shouldn't have a shelf life). I'm also buying a friends H60 AIO which I was going to use for my CPU but now I might use on the GPU (red mod / GPUCool). The 7950 is a stellar card, I can't let it become a paper weight.

Thanks,

Alex

EDIT: Currently idling on Windows 7 desktop at 47 degrees (Afterburner)

I cannot read my VRAM temps via either GPU-Z or HWiNFO, must not be supported. One thing I noted is that the thermal pads came loose when I removed the PCB, but they sat back in place OK. I'm not sure whether 'sitting' back in place is sufficient for cooling, if they aren't making proper contact? Also, would the vram temp increase the temp that Afterburner is reporting for GPU temperature? Could it be that the core is actually OK but the vram temp has gotten worse and drastically screwed the temps?

 

[RamboOC]

make sure you dont apply too much tim as your gpu has a small die and large amount of tim=worse temps. apply no more than the size of rice, less than your cpu. make sure the screws holding the plate on the back of the pcb are not to loose

i had similar thing happen with my gtx 570. temps with the stock tim were at about 68 at 100% load. i decided to replace it with arctic silver mx-2 which apparently has no cure time. but after repacing the tim the temps were at about 88c, i tried diffrent methods and diffrent amounts, but sill the temps were very high. after about 2 weeks i checked the temps again and they went back down to low 60. The problem may solve it self, especially that your as5 has cure time.

 

[barnsley]

Fan profiles are often the cause of issues with XFX cards. does it ramp up the fan speed when it starts to hit temps?

 

[hawkinsa21]

make sure you dont apply too much tim as your gpu has a small die and large amount of tim=worse temps. apply no more than the size of rice, less than your cpu. make sure the screws holding the plate on the back of the pcb are not to loose

i had similar thing happen with my gtx 570. temps with the stock tim were at about 68 at 100% load. i decided to replace it with arctic silver mx-2 which apparently has no cure time. but after repacing the tim the temps were at about 88c, i tried diffrent methods and diffrent amounts, but sill the temps were very high. after about 2 weeks i checked the temps again and they went back down to low 60. The problem may solve it self, especially that your as5 has cure time.

Thanks Rambo, hmmmm. I used a bit more than a grain of rice, not much more but maybe enough to screw temps up. The cure time might make a difference as well, but the sudden increase in temps rang some alarm bells. Appreciate the heads up.

@barnsley - fans do kick in, but I'm going to play with some custom fan settings in afterburner.

I think I'm going to clean and replace TIM once more but with less (probably used 3x grains of rice worth)

thanks

Alex

EDIT: Current idle temp is 50 degrees, eek!

 

[MadShadow]

Thanks Rambo, hmmmm. I used a bit more than a grain of rice, not much more but maybe enough to screw temps up. The cure time might make a difference as well, but the sudden increase in temps rang some alarm bells. Appreciate the heads up.

@barnsley - fans do kick in, but I'm going to play with some custom fan settings in afterburner.

I think I'm going to clean and replace TIM once more but with less (probably used 3x grains of rice worth)

thanks

Alex

EDIT: Current idle temp is 50 degrees, eek!

Thats worrying, especially if you have a fairly cool room to begin with.

 

[hawkinsa21]

Thats worrying, especially if you have a fairly cool room to begin with.

Quite. I've reapplied the TIM once more. I've done this three times now, once with a blob, once with an even spread using a cling film wrapped finger, and lastly using a tiny bit the size of a grain of rice.

All temps are roughly the same. Roughly 10 degrees above where the stock TIM was. I'm hoping that this will 'bed in' after some general use. I'll setup some custom fan profiles and keep a close eye on temps.

I'll check back here later and I'll also report back if the temps lower after some cure time.

Thanks

Alex

 

[WYP]

So I took it apart and low and behold the manufacturers TIM application was a mess; all over the place, and in great big wads and there were a couple of small areas of no TIM contact between GPU and HS at all. Took a good amount of cleaning. I carefully reapplied my trusty AS5 (I know there is better but it is what I had), and carefully reassembled. Stock temps now high 40s and Far Cry 3 hit 97 degrees!!!

Yeah, I don't trust XFX anymore. My XFX 7950 had no thermal pads on some of the ram chips which caused me a few problems.

Your temps shouldn't be that high, but apart from replacing tim I can't think of what else to change.

 

[hawkinsa21]

Yeah, I don't trust XFX anymore. My XFX 7950 had no thermal pads on some of the ram chips which caused me a few problems.

Your temps shouldn't be that high, but apart from replacing tim I can't think of what else to change.

My previous card was an 8800 GTS 512 by XFX, a solid card. Hence why I went with them this time, and it was a good price with 3 free games. I'm not sure on how much the vram can effect the perceived overall GPU temp in afterburner (or any GPU temp monitoring for that matter). The AS5 TIM looks to be spot on placement wise I can't see why it would raise temps so much by itself.

I guess I'll let it bed in and see whether it drops. When I move to the AIO cooler mod I'll have to apply some dedicated vram coolers anyway.

Certainly cannot game on it as is though until things pick up. The temp in Wolfenstein just hit 93 in about 20 seconds

Cheers

Alex

 

[barnsley]

That generation of XFX stuff was terribad unless if it was a couple of models.

 

[hawkinsa21]

That generation of XFX stuff was terribad unless if it was a couple of models.

The GTS 512MB was solid. I actually upgraded it from the 8800 GT which had to be rma'd twice due to instant overheating.

I think it's also worth me cleaning the case out properly making sure my air flow is optimum

Alex

 

[cooperman]

Aparently acording to the Arctic Silver web page the burn in can take up to 200hrs.

Due to the unique shape and sizes of the particles in Arctic Silver 5's conductive matrix, it will take a up to 200 hours and several thermal cycles to achieve maximum particle to particle thermal conduction and for the heatsink to CPU interface to reach maximum conductivity. (This period will be longer in a system without a fan on the heatsink or with a low speed fan on the heatsink.) On systems measuring actual internal core temperatures via the CPU's internal diode, the measured temperature will often drop 2C to 5C over this "break-in" period. This break-in will occur during the normal use of the computer as long as the computer is turned off from time to time and the interface is allowed to cool to room temperature. Once the break-in is complete, the computer can be left on if desired.

(I useualy use MX-4 for everything)

 

[hawkinsa21]

Thanks cooperman, yes I've seen this. The various blurb I have read regarding the cure time states that the maximum profit is seen after this time, and that a 'few' degrees rise in temp 'can' be seen on occasion. But I'm seeing 8+ degrees at idle. I will let it settle anyway as end of month I should be picking up a mates H60 which I'll mod on and replace the thermal pads on the vrms etc

Cheers

Alex

-----------

OK, so curiosity got the better of me.

I took everything apart, and applied TIM to both the GPU and also the back of the HS... which I've never done before and the previous applications looked as though there was good even contact on both, after taking apart...

But, now that I've done this I am idling at 38 degrees, rather than 50. Hmmmm. No more tampering, will let bed in. Glad I gave it another go, it was the only thing I hadn't tried.

Alex

 

[hawkinsa21]

Update: Idling at 41 on a hot day. Hoping this is a good sign

EDIT: Hmmm. Wolfenstein, hit 97 degrees after 5 minutes. Not good.

Alex

 

[RamboOC]

maybe you made some tiny scratches on the surface of heatsink (although i doubt it). what did you use to clean the heatsink from the old tim?

 

[SuB]

At this point fella I'd be 100% ditching the AS5 and getting something else.

It sounds to me like your AS5 may have even *gone off* or separated badly in the tube (it does settle in the tube)

AS5 is most definitely a spread based application, not a rice grain based one. It's not got the right viscosity to just chuck it on and squeeze it.

My advice? Get some NT-H1, it's easy to get hold of via amazon and the like and should help. Much more modern compound, no risk of short-outs on anything around the core (not that you should be applying TIM if you think you're going to get it anywhere you shouldn't ANYWAY).

AS5, while great for it's time, is now far surpassed by other materials.

 

[Wraith]

I use ShinEtsu Micro SI, which has the consistency of Blu tak, takes some skillful spreading but it has a Zero cure time. I found it to be on average 3c lower than AS5 and about on par with Noctua TIM.

 

[hawkinsa21]

@ Rambo, I used kitchen towel. There are some very light surface marks on it. Is it worth thinking about lapping with some very high grade sand paper?

@ SuB, thanks mate, I've pretty much come to the same conclusion. Its quite possible I wiped off more modern and better TIM from the card then replaced with sub standard old AS5. I'm going to pick up some of the stuff you have suggested. Thanks for the heads up

@ Wraith, thanks again for this as well. I'm reading up on othe TIMs, will probably go with the NT-H1 that SuB mentioned and go from there first

Cheers all

Alex

 

[YouWhat]

What fluid did you use to clean down the block and gpu? As that might of left a greasy residue over it which would effect temps also as the thermal compound wouldn't be making proper contact so would lessen the effectiveness of it

 

[hawkinsa21]

What fluid did you use to clean down the block and gpu? As that might of left a greasy residue over it which would effect temps also as the thermal compound wouldn't be making proper contact so would lessen the effectiveness of it

I didn't use any. Although the manufacturers TIM was a mess, it just took time to clean it up but came off readily enough. I didn't think I needed any liquid to remove it as it seemed pretty clean to me (as in no visible sign of TIM at all)

Cheers

Alex

 

[hawkinsa21]

And as I'm going to be doing an AIO cooler mod in the next couple of weeks, can anyone recommend a good set of VRM coolers / pads? I'll have a fan blowing on them but the stock ones are pants by the looks of things and in need of replacement.

Btw, here are two pics of the heat sink and stock thermal pads. Anything obvious?

Cheers,

Alex