AMD's alternative to G-Sync, FreeSync?
- Thread starter WYP
- Start date
barnsley
born in a.....
Nah, its got everyone in a good mood as it should bring the prices down for GSync ^_^. No 90 page threads today.
Tripp
too many shrooms
should....doesn't mean it will though
barnsley
born in a.....
As long as one side doesn't try to bate the other it should be fine. Besides, I'm sure the inevitible AMD CES discussion thread will create the normal situation.
Silver Sparrow
New member
wow! if this come to fruition that will simply make my day and future purchasing plan even more concrete. Epic!
Thanks for the info OP.
Thanks for the info OP.
Exactly. We need AMD to be competitive in order for consumers to get the best value for money. And you can't compete for long when up against "free" products
unless you make some major price cuts.But surely Nvidia must have had an idea on the path AMD would take. After all Nvidia would have studied VESA standards and looked into VBLANK. Hats off to AMD for being able to go around any patents from nvidia and produce something that we "hope" is on par if not better.
NeverBackDown
AMD Enthusiast
Good thing is that Its supplied through driver updates. Reduces manufacturing cost by quite a bit and only allows companies to charge more for the "New awesome one a kind technology"
The cool thing is AMD already are working on the driver side, so by the time any monitors are on the market AMD would have everything ready. AMD scored real nice with this one.
The cool thing is AMD already are working on the driver side, so by the time any monitors are on the market AMD would have everything ready. AMD scored real nice with this one.
GoogalyMoogaly
New member
As I understand it this requires a DisplayPort connection as well as a proposed VESA standard. The fact that it's proposed means that a lot of current monitors likely don't support it yet. Which means a new monitor for most. Also from what I gather, manufacturers have to pay to use VESA standards, so they may pass any cost on to us, but as there wont be 2 versions of the monitor (one with, one without) we wont know how much it adds to the price (if any). Seems certain it'll be cheaper than Nvidia's options though.
Does make me wonder though, how well this will work with Mantle. Mantle could offer 45% improvements over DirectX, but then to use 'free-sync' surely you'll limit yourself to the monitor's refresh rate (which in some cases may be 60fps).
Does make me wonder though, how well this will work with Mantle. Mantle could offer 45% improvements over DirectX, but then to use 'free-sync' surely you'll limit yourself to the monitor's refresh rate (which in some cases may be 60fps).
NeverBackDown
AMD Enthusiast
Display port is a step in the right production. Offers way more than hdmi will(maybe hdmi 2.0 as well).
Its limited by what the manufactures set the refresh rate at. If its a 60hz IPS monitor then its that. Now if Someone makes another 144hz (asus) supporting VBLANK then i'm sure it would work wonders.
Its limited by what the manufactures set the refresh rate at. If its a 60hz IPS monitor then its that. Now if Someone makes another 144hz (asus) supporting VBLANK then i'm sure it would work wonders.
NVIDIA has responded to AMD's new FreeSync. Quotation below.
"Well it was bound to happen sooner rather then later, but Nvidia spoke about AMD FreeSync. The interview is with Tom Petersen who spoke with the guys from techReport. So the credits and everything related to this post goes to them. Basically Petersen says he's excited to see a competitor take an interest in this but he claims that as things now stand, it will be close to impossible to implement free sync on a desktop display due to the use of different display architectures than on laptops.
Here's that snippet from the guys at techReport:
CES — On the show floor here at CES today, I spoke briefly with Nvidia's Tom Petersen, the executive instrumental in the development of G-Sync technology, about the AMD "free sync" demo we reported on yesterday. Alongside the demo, a senior AMD engineering executive asserted that a variable refresh rate capability like G-Sync ought to be possible essentially for free, without adding any extra costs to a display or a PC system. Peterson had several things to say in response to AMD's demo and claims.
He first said, of course, that he was excited to see his competitor taking an interest in dynamic refresh rates and thinking that the technology could offer benefits for gamers. In his view, AMD interest was validation of Nvidia's work in this area.
However, Petersen quickly pointed out an important detail about AMD's "free sync" demo: it was conducted on laptop systems. Laptops, he explained, have a different display architecture than desktops, with a more direct interface between the GPU and the LCD panel, generally based on standards like LVDS or eDP (embedded DisplayPort). Desktop monitors use other interfaces, like HDMI and DisplayPort, and typically have a scaler chip situated in the path between the GPU and the panel. As a result, a feature like variable refresh is nearly impossible to implement on a desktop monitor as things now stand.
That, Petersen explained, is why Nvidia decided to create its G-Sync module, which replaces the scaler ASIC with logic of Nvidia's own creation. To his knowledge, no scaler ASIC with variable refresh capability exists—and if it did, he said, "we would know." Nvidia's intent in building the G-Sync module was to enable this capability and thus to nudge the industry in the right direction.
When asked about a potential VESA standard to enable dynamic refresh rates, Petersen had something very interesting to say: he doesn't think it's necessary, because DisplayPort already supports "everything required" for dynamic refresh rates via the extension of the vblank interval. That's why, he noted, G-Sync works with existing cables without the need for any new standards. Nvidia sees no need and has no plans to approach VESA about a new standard for G-Sync-style functionality—because it already exists.
That said, Nvidia won't enable G-Sync for competing graphics chips because it has invested real time and effort in building a good solution and doesn't intend to "do the work for everyone." If the competition wants to have a similar feature in its products, Petersen said, "They have to do the work. They have to hire the guys to figure it out."
"Well it was bound to happen sooner rather then later, but Nvidia spoke about AMD FreeSync. The interview is with Tom Petersen who spoke with the guys from techReport. So the credits and everything related to this post goes to them. Basically Petersen says he's excited to see a competitor take an interest in this but he claims that as things now stand, it will be close to impossible to implement free sync on a desktop display due to the use of different display architectures than on laptops.
Here's that snippet from the guys at techReport:
CES — On the show floor here at CES today, I spoke briefly with Nvidia's Tom Petersen, the executive instrumental in the development of G-Sync technology, about the AMD "free sync" demo we reported on yesterday. Alongside the demo, a senior AMD engineering executive asserted that a variable refresh rate capability like G-Sync ought to be possible essentially for free, without adding any extra costs to a display or a PC system. Peterson had several things to say in response to AMD's demo and claims.
He first said, of course, that he was excited to see his competitor taking an interest in dynamic refresh rates and thinking that the technology could offer benefits for gamers. In his view, AMD interest was validation of Nvidia's work in this area.
However, Petersen quickly pointed out an important detail about AMD's "free sync" demo: it was conducted on laptop systems. Laptops, he explained, have a different display architecture than desktops, with a more direct interface between the GPU and the LCD panel, generally based on standards like LVDS or eDP (embedded DisplayPort). Desktop monitors use other interfaces, like HDMI and DisplayPort, and typically have a scaler chip situated in the path between the GPU and the panel. As a result, a feature like variable refresh is nearly impossible to implement on a desktop monitor as things now stand.
That, Petersen explained, is why Nvidia decided to create its G-Sync module, which replaces the scaler ASIC with logic of Nvidia's own creation. To his knowledge, no scaler ASIC with variable refresh capability exists—and if it did, he said, "we would know." Nvidia's intent in building the G-Sync module was to enable this capability and thus to nudge the industry in the right direction.
When asked about a potential VESA standard to enable dynamic refresh rates, Petersen had something very interesting to say: he doesn't think it's necessary, because DisplayPort already supports "everything required" for dynamic refresh rates via the extension of the vblank interval. That's why, he noted, G-Sync works with existing cables without the need for any new standards. Nvidia sees no need and has no plans to approach VESA about a new standard for G-Sync-style functionality—because it already exists.
That said, Nvidia won't enable G-Sync for competing graphics chips because it has invested real time and effort in building a good solution and doesn't intend to "do the work for everyone." If the competition wants to have a similar feature in its products, Petersen said, "They have to do the work. They have to hire the guys to figure it out."
WYP
News Guru
Nice find there mate, do you have a source? I will be updating the OP as a lot more info has came to light now.
It will be nice to be able to add Nvidia's thoughts.
No worries, I got it from here, http://www.guru3d.com/news_story/nvidia_responds_to_amd_freesync.html
WYP
News Guru
cheers
Haha you beat me to it Shaun
Either way, Freesync is a stepping stone into a future change in the way we experience stuttering.
Lol I just went on the site saw it and before I even read it posted it here.
What are peoples thoughts on NVIDIA's reaction then? Can FreeSync only be done on a laptop? After all, if it could be done without a hardware module 'they'd know about it'.
Lol I just went on the site saw it and before I even read it posted it here.
What are peoples thoughts on NVIDIA's reaction then? Can FreeSync only be done on a laptop? After all, if it could be done without a hardware module 'they'd know about it'.
They are talking out their arse imo, well, not entirely. But I think they are just scared cause G-sync will end up like physx and other nvidia features since its proprietary and not free in comparison to the competition. Not to mention nvidia has been known to take open standards or other ideas, mixing it around a bit then selling them as proprietary monetised ideas that could otherwise be done for free (see LMA). There are a LOT of monitor's that don't even have scalar chips in them, so that means the whole "direct access" is also true for all those monitor's too. I notice he didn't mention anything about those?
He says "there is no scalar with variable refresh rate"...well... dur. There hasn't been a market for one at all until now. So maybe one will be made? Regardless this should work on any panel that supports VBLANK without a scalar according to nvidia. Now I am glad I have my "crappy" korean 1440p monitor that doesn't have one
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SuB
The Webmaster
Lol I just went on the site saw it and before I even read it posted it here.
What are peoples thoughts on NVIDIA's reaction then? Can FreeSync only be done on a laptop? After all, if it could be done without a hardware module 'they'd know about it'.
Technically he said, if there was a hardware module that existed that had the capability they'd know about it, not that they'd know if it could be done without one.
Silver Sparrow
New member
Lol I just went on the site saw it and before I even read it posted it here.
What are peoples thoughts on NVIDIA's reaction then? Can FreeSync only be done on a laptop? After all, if it could be done without a hardware module 'they'd know about it'.
My first reaction is AMD needs to learn from nVidia on how to do marketing and PR :lol: Though naming their prototype vrr FreeSync is a nice start.
As for the laptop panels only, I've read/watched videos that its due to the eDP specification 'optional' criteria for a power saving technology rather than for smoother screen refreshes. Supposedly DP 1.3 has VRR in it's specification so should that be validated and adopted across the industry in a timely manner, no extra hardware needed, just a driver update (For both Geforce and Radeon cards) and a DP 1.3 fully compatible monitor panel.
Considering AMDs naming of their tech and demonstration timing (near enough G-SYNC release), nvidia reacted rather well mannered and now rightfully pressing their advantage after AMD showing their hand.
WYP
News Guru
To make things clear, this tech is nowhere near ready for consumer use yet. It is simply a tech demo showing what will be possible in the future, AMD are trying to get this variable framerate standard adopted universally by the display manufacturers.
As of yet the "FreeSync" only works with eDP 1.0 which is common for laptop or tablet displays but not used in desktops (it can be found in some All in one Desktops), but when the Display Port 1.3 standards are ratified variable framerates will become part of that standard, bringing it (in theory) to the desktop.
In theory this should make all DP 1.3 monitors able to use FreeSync, but only if the monitor manufacturers make the monitors compliant with the VESA VBLANK. AMD are trying to raise awareness of this in order for manufacturers to make their future monitors compliant with this standard as as Nvidia has shown variable framerate technology is greatly beneficial.
The only downside to AMD's plan is it's reliance on the quick adoption of a new Display Port standard, which in the past has been a very slow process. At present there is also no reason why a future HDMI standard would not eventually adopt the same variable framerate functionality.
For AMD's freeSync to become a thing Display makers will need to play ball with AMD and adopt Display Port on a wider variety of monitors and also give the displays VBLANK functionality. This will likely take some time.
As of yet the "FreeSync" only works with eDP 1.0 which is common for laptop or tablet displays but not used in desktops (it can be found in some All in one Desktops), but when the Display Port 1.3 standards are ratified variable framerates will become part of that standard, bringing it (in theory) to the desktop.
In theory this should make all DP 1.3 monitors able to use FreeSync, but only if the monitor manufacturers make the monitors compliant with the VESA VBLANK. AMD are trying to raise awareness of this in order for manufacturers to make their future monitors compliant with this standard as as Nvidia has shown variable framerate technology is greatly beneficial.
The only downside to AMD's plan is it's reliance on the quick adoption of a new Display Port standard, which in the past has been a very slow process. At present there is also no reason why a future HDMI standard would not eventually adopt the same variable framerate functionality.
For AMD's freeSync to become a thing Display makers will need to play ball with AMD and adopt Display Port on a wider variety of monitors and also give the displays VBLANK functionality. This will likely take some time.
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