A little friendly advice for new PC?

[dowhatnow]

Alright, OC3D. I would like your help. I'm looking at building a PC (piece-by-piece and one part at a time if I have to), but am unsure of a few things, and I would appreciate your input/opinions.

First, which has more overclock potential and which actually runs faster at rated core speed: Intel or AMD? And how would I go about overclocking both?

Second, is there a Sub-Zero cooling device that cools the CPU and the GPU? If not, what's currently the best bang-for-your-buck cooling system on the market?

Third, is it possible to cool 2 GPUS in SLI?

Finally, given the previous questions, what would be my best bet for video editing and encoding, gaming, and in the possible future, HD viewing as far as the CPU, mobo, and cooling unit?

Like I said earlier, I'm looking for opinions, and all are welcome. If all goes well, I can start building this thing ASAP, meaning when I get all the parts together, which, as I said, could be awhile.

 

[Bogel]

Imma intel fanboy, so i will say intel has more overclocking ability, as for core speed me have no clue really, i havent been at stock since i first got my computer...

 

[serialk11r]

I wouldn't say which company has the best processor...Its about WHICH processor is better at the time

 

[Ham]

How about a budget for your parts?

As for the sub-zero cooling, too do 2 or 3 chips is a total pita. If your determined too do it get ready for lots of dead hardware. But there are a few ways of doing it.

1st theres normal water loop cooling a series of tecs, but you'll need a

of a rad & pump (i saw a 480mm rad on ST i think, just got up though so don't quote me...).

2nd theres a water loop being cooled by a chiller. Involves soooo much insulation its not funny, but enough anti-freeze and a custom unit would work well.

3rd up we have a dual evap SS system. This would be the most effective, but more than likely very costly.

Basically with any of these methods you would have void the warranties on every piece of hardware you got by covering then with grease/lacquer/armaflex.

My advice would just be a tripple rad, a D5 and a few nice blocks.

 

[macgamesrule]

At the moment Intel has better overclock potential. AMD had dropped their prices, making them more affordable than Intels, but Intel just dropped to match, and has regained the momentary performance/price advantage.

I haven't heard of sub-zero cooling on GPUs too much; probably not worth the hassle. Some decent watercooling will get most of the overclocking potential out of them with a lot less fuss. Pretty sure you can do that with SLI as well; of course with 2 G80/R600's, it's gonna need to be a pretty robust wc system.

Historically Intel has usually won the video encoding benches; frankly they beat AMD at most everything right now. Mobos aren't usually a limiting factor as far as performance goes; generally you select one for best features/upgradability. In the forseeable future that might include 1333 FSB for Intels, Socket F for upcoming Barcelona AMDs, and PCI-E 2.0 and DDR3 for both. The nForce 680's have 1333 FSB support, and the upcoming Bearlake chipset from Intel will support PCI-E 2.0.

As for viewing HD stuff, this article here has a list of things you need: http://www.hardware.info/en-US/news...DDVD_playback_will_be_possible_in_Windows_XP/

 

[serialk11r]

At the moment Intel has better overclock potential. AMD had dropped their prices, making them more affordable than Intels, but Intel just dropped to match, and has regained the momentary performance/price advantage.

I haven't heard of sub-zero cooling on GPUs too much; probably not worth the hassle. Some decent watercooling will get most of the overclocking potential out of them with a lot less fuss. Pretty sure you can do that with SLI as well; of course with 2 G80/R600's, it's gonna need to be a pretty robust wc system.

Historically Intel has usually won the video encoding benches; frankly they beat AMD at most everything right now. Mobos aren't usually a limiting factor as far as performance goes; generally you select one for best features/upgradability. In the forseeable future that might include 1333 FSB for Intels, Socket F for upcoming Barcelona AMDs, and PCI-E 2.0 and DDR3 for both. The nForce 680's have 1333 FSB support, and the upcoming Bearlake chipset from Intel will support PCI-E 2.0.

As for viewing HD stuff, this article here has a list of things you need: http://www.hardware.info/en-US/news...DDVD_playback_will_be_possible_in_Windows_XP/

Note that this is the Core2 chips Pentium D, Celeron D, Pentium4, are all total crap.

As for cooling, taking care of all those components, chiller would be best (but you need tons of insulation). TECs are power hogs, and you'll see a big spike in your electricity bills.

Normal watercooling is the most practical way to get better results than air but not go through all that crap (insulation, etc.).

 

[dowhatnow]

How about a budget for your parts?

I was looking at a total system budget of $12,000 or less, but I'm willing to bend the rules in that department a bit if necessary.

My advice would just be a tripple rad, a D5 and a few nice blocks.

Any particular ones?

 

[Ares210]

I was looking at a total system budget of $12,000 or less, but I'm willing to bend the rules in that department a bit if necessary.

Any particular ones?

WOAH! 12,000 dollars???? That is an insane budget :yumyum:

 

[mrapoc]

$2000 is quite a lot but now thats amazing!

Your pc will pwn

 

[dowhatnow]

WOAH! 12,000 dollars???? That is an insane budget :yumyum:

$2000 is quite a lot but now thats amazing!

Your pc will pwn

Note that I also said "or less", which is preferable to going overboard and getting up to that 12K mark.

 

[mrapoc]

haha ok - you can get quite a beat with $4000

Do you need monitor etc. also or just the components/case?

 

[FarFarAway]

I mean basic system would be:

Intel QX6700

abit IN9 32x Max or MSI 680i

XFX "XXX" Edition 8800GTX

2gb Good performing RAM (I like Mushkin, OCZ, Crucial, GSkill)

2 x RaptorX 150gb HDD's in RAID 0

Lian Li Cube Case

PCP&C 850w PSU

Then the cooling is up to you. Personally I'd do Water and get:

Thermochill PA 120.3 RAD

D-Tek Fuzion CPU block

EK or DD Full cover waterblocks (I like full cover for bling)

Laing D5 pump (prefer stability over tiny performance increase)

Tubing of your choice

That's a pretty pimping system and you can always add on another 8800GTX if you like

 

[dowhatnow]

I mean basic system would be:

Intel QX6700

abit IN9 32x Max or MSI 680i

XFX "XXX" Edition 8800GTX

2gb Good performing RAM (I like Mushkin, OCZ, Crucial, GSkill)

2 x RaptorX 150gb HDD's in RAID 0

Lian Li Cube Case

PCP&C 850w PSU

Then the cooling is up to you. Personally I'd do Water and get:

Thermochill PA 120.3 RAD

D-Tek Fuzion CPU block

EK or DD Full cover waterblocks (I like full cover for bling)

Laing D5 pump (prefer stability over tiny performance increase)

Tubing of your choice

That's a pretty pimping system and you can always add on another 8800GTX if you like

As for the monitor, I'd like something that can display the 8800GTX's max resolution natively. Preferably something in the 30" ballpark. Maybe two of those things if I add another 8800GTX.

As for the parts in bold, I have questions. Why only 2GB of RAM and 2x 150 GB Raptors? I'm also looking for high capacity, but I like where your head's at. Performance is also a very large factor in the decision I'm faced with, which is why I asked you guys.

Also, if I added another 8800GTX, wouldn't I need something a little beefier for a PSU if I wanted to run the two cards in SLI as well as all the other components feeding on it? Something in the 1 kW range?

Finally, what choices do I have?

 

[Ham]

4GB Kits only come in PC2-6400 flavors atm. And theres really no need for more than two yet.

As for storage Buy Raid nas box and stick two 750gb (or 1tb if there out yet) in it.

 

[serialk11r]

12K is monstrous...

Lets see, dual clovers and dual clover board? That would be sweet. Then throw in 8800gtx. Then get a 850W Silverstone or something of the sort.

Its going to be pretty hard to dump 12K just on components...

I'd get dual loops, 1 PA120.3 for the CPUs, with an Iwaki RD30 and D-tek Fuzions or Apogee GT/GTX. Rumor has it that there is a prototype nozzle for Fuzion that makes it even better Then get ANOTHER PA120.3 and ANOTHER Iwaki RD30 for the video cards (new swiftech full cover block? right now the blocks to get would be EK, (NOT DD) Swiftech MCW60, or D-tek Fuzion GFX). You'll need a 24V psu for the RD30 pumps, Meanwell S150-24 would be good. Throw in some thermalright heatsinks for the miscellaneous things.

As for the dual clovers, you can go on XS and ask Movieman about it. He has them for crunching

 

[FarFarAway]

As for the monitor, I'd like something that can display the 8800GTX's max resolution natively. Preferably something in the 30" ballpark. Maybe two of those things if I add another 8800GTX.

I'd say get a Dell 2405FPW, or two depending on what you want. The 30" is great but it has hardly any connections which annoys me.

As for the parts in bold, I have questions. Why only 2GB of RAM and 2x 150 GB Raptors? I'm also looking for high capacity, but I like where your head's at. Performance is also a very large factor in the decision I'm faced with, which is why I asked you guys.

for 32bit you can't go above 3gb basically and 2gb is optimum right now. Also as Ham said 4gb is only available in PC6400 and you can get some steaming 2gb 9600 kits

Raptors in RAID 0 for the OS for pure speed (and 300GB for an OS drive is HUGE). Then maybe a couple of 750gb drives in RAID 1 for stuff you want to store securely with some peace of mind. I mean a solid state HDD is another choice too for the OS but currently they are pretty small

RAID 0 + 1 for security if you want. don't see the point tho as if you've got that much cash your OS choice should be retail and re-installing isn't a problem

Also, if I added another 8800GTX, wouldn't I need something a little beefier for a PSU if I wanted to run the two cards in SLI as well as all the other components feeding on it? Something in the 1 kW range?

850w PCP&C will MORE than enough take 2 x 8800GTX's and the rest. If you're worried get a 1kw PCP&C - hey it's your leccy bill

What options other than this? iono a dual quad core server system with ECC registered RAM and an 8800GTX...pretty damn pointless imo

Could go with a couple of Seagate Cheetah's on a SCSI card if your feeling really rich...again slightly pointless.

Phase the CPU and water-cool the GPU's/North-Bridge if you want more extreme

 

[dowhatnow]

First off, thanks to everyone in this thread for your suggestions.

As for storage Buy Raid nas box and stick two 750gb (or 1tb if there out yet) in it.

An NAS box? Isn't that a drive shared by a network, or am I just not as up to speed as I think I am?

12K is monstrous...

Lets see, dual clovers and dual clover board? That would be sweet. Then throw in 8800gtx. Then get a 850W Silverstone or something of the sort.

Its going to be pretty hard to dump 12K just on components...

I'd get dual loops, 1 PA120.3 for the CPUs, with an Iwaki RD30 and D-tek Fuzions or Apogee GT/GTX. Rumor has it that there is a prototype nozzle for Fuzion that makes it even better Then get ANOTHER PA120.3 and ANOTHER Iwaki RD30 for the video cards (new swiftech full cover block? right now the blocks to get would be EK, (NOT DD) Swiftech MCW60, or D-tek Fuzion GFX). You'll need a 24V psu for the RD30 pumps, Meanwell S150-24 would be good. Throw in some thermalright heatsinks for the miscellaneous things.

As for the dual clovers, you can go on XS and ask Movieman about it. He has them for crunching

Most of that went over my head. Dual clovers, dual loop, all of that stuff is foreign to me. Can you clarify these statements?

And I'd like to remind you that I was looking at a total system budget of $12K. That means components, internal and external, and everything to connect them together.

I'd say get a Dell 2405FPW, or two depending on what you want. The 30" is great but it has hardly any connections which annoys me.

for 32bit you can't go above 3gb basically and 2gb is optimum right now. Also as Ham said 4gb is only available in PC6400 and you can get some steaming 2gb 9600 kits

Raptors in RAID 0 for the OS for pure speed (and 300GB for an OS drive is HUGE). Then maybe a couple of 750gb drives in RAID 1 for stuff you want to store securely with some peace of mind. I mean a solid state HDD is another choice too for the OS but currently they are pretty small

RAID 0 + 1 for security if you want. don't see the point tho as if you've got that much cash your OS choice should be retail and re-installing isn't a problem

850w PCP&C will MORE than enough take 2 x 8800GTX's and the rest. If you're worried get a 1kw PCP&C - hey it's your leccy bill

What options other than this? iono a dual quad core server system with ECC registered RAM and an 8800GTX...pretty damn pointless imo

Could go with a couple of Seagate Cheetah's on a SCSI card if your feeling really rich...again slightly pointless.

Phase the CPU and water-cool the GPU's/North-Bridge if you want more extreme

Yeah... I'm not gonna drop my dollars on SCSI hardware unless I'm planning on building something far more expensive and task-specialized, like a server of some sort.

I've read that JBOD is another widely supported configuration on most mobos nowadays, but I'm unsure as to how it works in comparision to RAID 0 or 1. Can you (that's all of you guys here at OC3D) enlighten me?

Also, what sets the QX6700 apart from the X6800 or the E6700?

Is there anything else that you would include in that list that you previously omitted, such as thermal gel or heat spreaders or even which fluid I would use for liquid cooling, if not water?

What are my options for HDD Cooling besides fans, if any? I got to looking around and the cube case has a mounting cage for what looks like 3 hard drives and a fan. I've also seen HDD Fan coolers that attach directly to the underside of the unit as well.

Finally, got any suggestions on where I can grab the hardware you listed (and maybe their model numbers too?) for a relatively low price?

 

[serialk11r]

First off, thanks to everyone in this thread for your suggestions.

An NAS box? Isn't that a drive shared by a network, or am I just not as up to speed as I think I am?

Most of that went over my head. Dual clovers, dual loop, all of that stuff is foreign to me. Can you clarify these statements?

And I'd like to remind you that I was looking at a total system budget of $12K. That means components, internal and external, and everything to connect them together.

Yeah... I'm not gonna drop my dollars on SCSI hardware unless I'm planning on building something far more expensive and task-specialized, like a server of some sort.

I've read that JBOD is another widely supported configuration on most mobos nowadays, but I'm unsure as to how it works in comparision to RAID 0 or 1. Can you (that's all of you guys here at OC3D) enlighten me?

Also, what sets the QX6700 apart from the X6800 or the E6700?

Is there anything else that you would include in that list that you previously omitted, such as thermal gel or heat spreaders or even which fluid I would use for liquid cooling, if not water?

What are my options for HDD Cooling besides fans, if any? I got to looking around and the cube case has a mounting cage for what looks like 3 hard drives and a fan. I've also seen HDD Fan coolers that attach directly to the underside of the unit as well.

Finally, got any suggestions on where I can grab the hardware you listed (and maybe their model numbers too?) for a relatively low price?

Sorry, I meant Dual Clovertowns. Dual quad core processors for servers QX6700, Q6600 are quad core, X6800, E6700, E6600, E6400, E6300, E4300, E6320, E6420, are all dual core. It needs a motherboard with 2 sockets. Dual loop in watercooling means you have 2 separate pump (or pumps) and separate radiators, cooling different blocks, and not connected to each other.

JBOD is no good, it doesn't have any performance advantage. RAID 0 gives faster read/write times, RAID 1 backs up data. RAID 0+1 does both, but needs 4 hard drives.

Hard drives don't need any cooling AT ALL. You guys can argue about that but well, there's a guy with 15k rpm seagate cheetahs stacked on top of 10k rpm raptors with zero airflow, and they've been running strong for a LOONNGGG time. If you want the hard drive to be a little cooler, all you need to do is plug in the 120mm fan that's in front of the hard drive cage on most cases