3800 dually Vs 4800 Watercooled

[maverik-sg1]

I have been reading around and found this little nugget of information.

It would appear that using watercooling the dually 3800 will clock as high (within a few MHZ) of the dually 4800.

Easily clocks to 270*10 (2.7Ghz) using 1.56v which looking around here is as good as any watercooled 4800.

Temps were 31 idle and 41 load, with a little more encouragment I am sure that 2.75Ghz was just around the corner.

The one review summarised like this:

Looking around different forums I've noticed most people hitting 2.6 to 2.7GHZ with good cooling, and a few hitting 2.8 to 2.95GHz on extreme cooling. While I can't vouch for anyone else’s stability or results I will say the 3800+ I have been torturing for a week now is one of the best processors I've ever had.

One issue I am seeing on message boards around the web deals with the IHS (Integrated Heat Spreader). It seems that people who have removed the IHS report a significant drop in temperatures, which result in much higher overclocks. The consensus among this group seems to be that the IHS seats poorly on the processors cores. Mind you, I am in no way recommending people remove the IHS from their processors, as it is a very risky procedure and one that definitely voids your warranty. I'm waiting to hear back from AMD on this issue, if there actually is one, and hoping to find out if there are plans to improve the IHS or redesign it totally. (Update: AMD does not plan on changing the HIS on any Athlon processors)

All in all, my short period of overclocking has done nothing to change my impression of this CPU. It's still quite a bit more than the Intel Pentium D 820, but taking into account the overall performance as well using current socket 939 motherboards, and the X2 3800+ is great choice for a budget user or for the hard core enthusiast.

 

[Warlord Shigs]

definitely voids your warranty.

.

not if u kno how 2 do it properly im gonna be gettin 1 of these cpus and removing the ihs, and when the time comes 2 sell it, ill jus put the ihs bk on like new

shigs

 

[nick25]

Don't forget the 3800 has half the L2 cache which can make higher clocks easier to obtain.

 

[K404]

Does cache still make that much difference? The San Diegos are a pretty good match for the Venice in terms of clocks, I`d say

 

[maverik-sg1]

It does on the single core units - i am sure that it does in something on the duallies, but looking at the bench results I have seen versus the price paid, the 512MB cache units offer much better value.

Examples:

Mav

 

[Mindless-Moron]

wow i was thinking of getting a 3800+ x2 rig, those results really are impressive, do you think i'd be able to get resuls like that on air cooling, probs a zalman 9500?

 

[nick25]

Is the 3800 at 10x240?

 

[maverik-sg1]

It would have been Nick, I know what you are saying the extra bandwidth helps in the benchies right?

The fact remains that on water the best overclock of 2.7Ghz (10x270) is roughly the same on both CPU's coupled with the price difference between the two (several hundred pounds) and small difference in performance on some tests (identical in most) - Would make the watercooling masses lean toward that unit (now that it's available of course).

On phase it's a different matter as I think 3.1Ghz is a push for the 3800 but easily achieved on the 4800 and you can actually see the difference for the money.

In some ways it's like the FX55 San Diego and FX57 San Diego on water or air the FX57 streches it's legs (mainly due to FX57 requiring lower voltages to achieve decent overclocks) - under phase (unless you have a week 16 FX57) the overclock is the same (as the extreme cooling used controls the extra heat generated by volts used on the 55), which one will you buy? The 57 on water/air but the 55 if you got phase cooling.

 

[Barkerd]

My 4800 seems only to be stable with my fans all set to 7volts at 2600Mhz and around 2700Mhz at 12v, which seems to be what a lot of 3800s I have read about seem to be capable of, so from that point here does not seem a lot to gain under water for the extra £350 for me in day to day use. I can bench some things at 2900Mhz when I ramp the fans up to 12v so definitely potential there assuming better cooling. After 1.5v thru the chip the dual prime temps seem to soar from 30degC right up to the low 60degCs so the heat generated is a problem. As Mav points out better cooling i.e. Phase, or perhaps even a good chiller, will most likely show up where that extra money has gone for the 4800 ... well hopefully!! Will be very interesting what Phil manages to get out of his new Tempest to see how far the 3800 will get with phase.

 

[Grov]

Well that table of 3dmark 05 is hardly right, mean at 2.4ghz you obviously have higher HTT and what mot compared to the 4800+.

The 3800 is a decent buy, as is the 4400+ it can be hd for around 350.

 

[maverik-sg1]

Well that table of 3dmark 05 is hardly right, mean at 2.4ghz you obviously have higher HTT and what mot compared to the 4800+.

The 3800 is a decent buy, as is the 4400+ it can be hd for around 350.

Does the 4400 have 1mb cache? If it does not, I dont see why anyone will shell out for it when it will only clock as high as the 3800 under water or air cooling - The graphs here clealry show that 1mb in each core for a cual core CPU is only a minimal improvement of it's 512kb siblings - unlike single core of course where that extra cache does make a marked improvement.

What I am saying here is that using water or air cooling they all top out at 2700mhz (or thereabouts) how you achieve that will more than likely be 270 (ish)x10 on any of the duallies making the speeds/bandwidth the same - the extra 512kb of cache does not make that much (if any) difference.

Knowing what we know now and if my rig was air or water cooled - the only dual cpu I would choose would be the 3800 - on phase it would be use the biggest/best (4800) as I know the extra cooling I have will allow me to expose that extra overclocking performance and you will be able to see where your money went then.

 

[Barkerd]

The only other thing to factor in is the miserable chip that's hiding out there that only gives you exactly what its spec is and wont clock 1Mhz more. There must be one or two out there, although for the price of a 4800 you could almost buy 3 x 3800s

 

[nick25]

Yeah the 4400 has 1mb cache (x2)

 

[BAcon]

hopefully have my X2 3800 by friday woo

 

[Barkerd]

Mike, u go for retail or oem? Someone once said to me that retail chips are binned higher but I dont know whether this is true?

hopefully have my X2 3800 by friday woo

 

[BAcon]

went oem, that way if its not so good it can go back

 

[maverik-sg1]

I think there is a degree of binning with the retail chips - but I am also given to understand that AMD yields are incredibly good in this genre, chances are that the OEM is as good in 75% of all comparisons.

Cheers

Mav