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Old 02-10-17, 08:11 PM
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Why Coffee Lake cannot work on Z270

It may be the same LGA 1151 socket, but a lot has changed since Kaby Lake.



Read more on LGA 1151's pinout changes.

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Old 02-10-17, 08:35 PM
cj09bruno cj09bruno is offline
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they are reserved pins aren't they, meaning they do nothing on z270 boards, that might mean that the cpu would have less max power delivery, but it wouldn't make it not work, and at least kaby lake cpus should work on the new z370 boards with just some bios compatibility
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Old 02-10-17, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj09bruno View Post
they are reserved pins aren't they, meaning they do nothing on z270 boards, that might mean that the cpu would have less max power delivery, but it wouldn't make it not work, and at least kaby lake cpus should work on the new z370 boards with just some bios compatibility
I presume that you are not an engineer? Because it's not that black and white
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Old 02-10-17, 08:46 PM
Gothmoth Gothmoth is offline
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well i am an engineer if that helps.

but a mechanical engineer.

i firmly believe that 20% is technical reasons and 80% is financial reason behind the decision to create an uncompatible CPU from kaby lake (aka coffee lake).

i also firmly believe that with a bit effort 8 core cpus could run on Z270 chipsets.


intel is one of the dirtiest tech companies you can run into. they proved that over and over.
of course they will make some changes so it looks like it was necessary. i would do the same.

but nobody can tell us if they could not have made the changes to the CPU instead of the socket.
coffee lake is not draining more watt then kaby lake.

and coffee lake was not build in one year.
what about building chipsets and sockets that are a bit more futureproof?

planned obsolescence, that´s what this is called.

intel does not even try to be futureproof!
because doing it the way they do.. it even EARNS them MORE money.



Quote:
According to Intel, LGA1151 socket on Z370 motherboards had to be modified for better power delivery for 8th Gen Core CPUs. The backward and forward compatibility questions could’ve all been avoided if Intel added at least one more physical pin or simply name the new socket as LGA1151v2. That did not happen. The electrical pin layout confirms that Coffelake has some RSVD (reserved) LGA1151 pins now occupied by VSS and VCC pins.
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Old 02-10-17, 09:39 PM
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TheF34RChannel TheF34RChannel is offline
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Every company is dirty, the world is dirty, most individuals are dirty. The way of the world. Like I said in the other thread, the end result would've been the same (new boards), it's the way it is, one can either accept or reject that.
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Old 03-10-17, 07:09 AM
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Korreborg Korreborg is offline
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But I still don't think it is Intel that is the main bad guy. The MB manufacturers win more on this.

And the hole TIM thing is a win for the cooler manufacturers. Yes I am wearing my tinfoil hat
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Old 03-10-17, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Korreborg View Post
But I still don't think it is Intel that is the main bad guy. The MB manufacturers win more on this.

And the hole TIM thing is a win for the cooler manufacturers. Yes I am wearing my tinfoil hat
Intel are the only winners. Not only do they get to sell their chipsets but they also get a socket licensing fee. THAT is why they keep changing boards.

If they come out with a new CPU and people put it in their old board they get nothing.
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Old 03-10-17, 12:55 PM
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But Intel sell an extra cpu, the motherboard manufacturers sell nothing but have to make new a bios.
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Old 03-10-17, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Korreborg View Post
But Intel sell an extra cpu, the motherboard manufacturers sell nothing but have to make new a bios.
Only that is not how it works, is it? If any one buying into an Intel CPU buys a board what are they going to do? stick it in a cabbage patch? they will need to buy a board right? so Intel sell a board. However, if they make it so that the new CPU won't work in existing boards that means that every one has to buy a board. Both new users and those wanting to upgrade.

I have really, strongly held my tongue on this up until now but it's time for me to get some stuff off my chest.

I have been into PCs for as long as I can remember. I don't build a new PC, get bored and vanish. Ever since I found OC3D I have been here as long as I am permitted to be here. I haven't moved onto other things I have always been obsessed with PCs.

Back in the early 90s when I decided to start looking into PCs the MAJOR buzz was "Do not buy from companies like Compaq, Dell etc". Why? because they used proprietary parts. So for example right you build a 486 yourself and it uses a standard AT power supply. That power supply cost around £30 if that. Buy a Compaq and the PSU dies? let's look at that shall we?

Firstly if you are out of warranty they charge you £70 to diagnose the fault, even if you told them what was wrong with it they refused to listen to you and charged you £70 any way. Then they say "Oh sorry the PSU has died that will be £230 please".

Dell were the same, Olivetti, etc etc. They all made PCs like that. That is why I learned to build PCs, because I did not want to be over a barrel !!!

Machines like that lasted for around five years, then the makers started to buckle. They had no choice ! no one was buying that crap.

So you got into PCs because if you didn't you needed a bank account ten times the size to feed your hobby. That is why building PCs became what it was and what it is today !!!

And do you know the biggest word in the world of PCs without fail? THE one that keeps us all interested in our passion? UPGRADE. That is what keeps us looking at the news in tech every day. That is what we save for, that is what we want.

But Intel are dragging us backwards. Instead of making their kit upgrade-able they are making it dead tech within a year, meaning you need to purchase another motherboard and possibly ram to be able to upgrade.

And no one seems to think it f*****g sucks ! it's unbelievably bad that in this day and age you get one CPU rev on a motherboard before you need to buy another one. So inconceivably terrible that a company would be doing that in this day and age !!

It's absolutely disgusting.

It's like going for a burger and the b*****d behind the counter says "So you want a burger huh? well you can have your burger but the roll is extra. The cheese is also extra, so is the salad, so is the wrapper etc and you can't have a burger unless you pay for all of those"

Intel have basically broken the bible of PC building. Thou shall not make products you can not upgrade.

I have explained briefly why they do it. Firstly it means they get to sell a very slightly tweaked chipset AGAIN. It also means they get to charge their socket license fee AGAIN. Go back to the bloke on the burger van.

Honestly it's 2017. Not 1992.

And their tax just keeps getting higher and higher. A decent motherboard these days is what? at least £200? £250? It's just mental.

I thought when AMD came back with a strong product Intel would see the error of their ways (because you only get away with scummy stuff like that when you are a one horse race !) and at least go back to making it so that two more cores doesn't cost you £250 before you can even pick a f*****g CPU !!

But no. They are carrying on like they are still very much the only player in the business. It's just mental. For years and years users fought with hardware manufacturers to make PCs one standard, with one standard part you could swap out and upgrade with any other off the shelf standard part. Intel are dragging us backwards.

If you look at all of the advances in tech since Sandy to now and the insane amount of boards and chipsets they've brought out just so we can get to where we are now?

Its just mind bendingly terrible.

I'm sorry, but any PC enthusiast who defends their actions needs a bloody good word with themselves.
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  #10  
Old 03-10-17, 01:39 PM
Bartacus Bartacus is offline
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Speaking as someone who has been building PCs since the 386 days, I agree with everything you just said! These days "upgrade" means "buy an entirely new system". I thought Threadripper and the obvious PCIE lane bonus would shake Intel a bit too, but it didn't. They still don't get it. You could get a 40 lane CPU on X79 for $300, now you need to pay closer to $800, and that only seems to be getting worse.

Intel won't learn until their sales tank, and that's hard to imagine happening.
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