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  #11  
Old 18-02-19, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Warchild View Post
NHS quality is good overall. Everyone can pull up bad issues at some point in their life. There are doctors who are proficient in their field but lack the social communication with the patient and families. The issue is funding and how your government is squeezing it dry. I say "your" because I dont live there anymore.

I'm still disgusted that Paramedics are no longer recognised as such and are not considered support drivers...

It's not just some issues, Hospitals all over the UK are being shut down, My local hospital has 5 doctors and 10 nurses and patients are literally spilling out onto the car park, I was speaking to a nurse today and she said the government every week makes cuts to the NHS, Over the last few years thousands of nurses have been fired and over 40,000 doctors and nurses have been denied placements within the NHS.


All part of the plan to privatise it to make more money for the old boy network.

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  #12  
Old 18-02-19, 08:36 PM
NeverBackDown NeverBackDown is offline
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That's the benefit of a non government ran health system. People will always have access. Although there are many downsides as well.
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  #13  
Old 18-02-19, 09:09 PM
tgrech tgrech is offline
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Back in 2013 research shown pretty conclusively that the NHS had far lower waiting times than you'd get on average from American health care services, particularly in American cities or if you didn't have top tier insurance, so I'm not sure the access issue really improves with private systems, though of course private services here have naturally shorter times due to their much smaller number of users. Of course, NHS waiting times have grown consistently since then, but that seems directly linked to the fact funding and staff has also fallen in that time, and now healthcare spending in the UK comes in at roughly half the cost per person than in the US, meaning the US government spend more on healthcare per person than in the UK one does when you take into account they still fund close to 50% of American healthcare through general taxation(Though of course still fund a much lower %age than any other G7 nation).
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Old 18-02-19, 09:35 PM
NeverBackDown NeverBackDown is offline
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And I bet all that research came from the UK? lol
Don't really care what the research says. They aren't really comparable and the health of the populations are very different. Anybody can make any statistic true and/or skewed. People do it all the time about guns, knives, crime, etc. Just to prove my point you say you have lower wait times, cool, the US also has 261 million more people. See how that's skewed? We literally have almost 400% more people. Without knowing this however it would seem yours is far better, when in reality its not. take into account we have far more hospitals and such around the country, minimum one per city/town, and access is easy and the load is spread out far more.
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  #15  
Old 18-02-19, 09:42 PM
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Back in 2013 research shown pretty conclusively that the NHS had far lower waiting times than you'd get on average from American health care services, particularly in American cities or if you didn't have top tier insurance, so I'm not sure the access issue really improves with private systems, though of course private services here have naturally shorter times due to their much smaller number of users. Of course, NHS waiting times have grown consistently since then, but that seems directly linked to the fact funding and staff has also fallen in that time, and now healthcare spending in the UK comes in at roughly half the cost per person than in the US, meaning the US government spend more on healthcare per person than in the UK one does when you take into account they still fund close to 50% of American healthcare through general taxation(Though of course still fund a much lower %age than any other G7 nation).

Average waiting time in most hospitals now is around 4 hours, In my local hospital average waiting time is 8 hours, I don't trust any of these studies as they show exactly the opposite of what I and many others actually experience in reality and not just in theory which is all most of these "studies" are, Theory, Which is not useful in the real world.
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  #16  
Old 19-02-19, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by NeverBackDown View Post
And I bet all that research came from the UK? lol
Don't really care what the research says. They aren't really comparable and the health of the populations are very different. Anybody can make any statistic true and/or skewed. People do it all the time about guns, knives, crime, etc. Just to prove my point you say you have lower wait times, cool, the US also has 261 million more people. See how that's skewed? We literally have almost 400% more people. Without knowing this however it would seem yours is far better, when in reality its not. take into account we have far more hospitals and such around the country, minimum one per city/town, and access is easy and the load is spread out far more.
This kind of thinking really irks me, I guess this is the Post Truth Society(tm) we live in now, combined with clickbait media misrepresenting the studies. Oh and obviously the US also has more people per capita.

It's literally a matter of taking a look at the actual paper or reading a more level-headed take on the paper's results. Then you can actually think about the results instead of hiding behind a wall of this probably doesn't apply to us/studies say all kinds of things/study is fake anyway.

And wait, first you agree that US has longer wait times, yet later you mention easier access and more spread out load? Which one is it?
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  #17  
Old 19-02-19, 07:37 AM
Warchild Warchild is offline
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Originally Posted by tgrech View Post
Back in 2013 research shown pretty conclusively that the NHS had far lower waiting times than you'd get on average from American health care services, particularly in American cities or if you didn't have top tier insurance, so I'm not sure the access issue really improves with private systems, though of course private services here have naturally shorter times due to their much smaller number of users. Of course, NHS waiting times have grown consistently since then, but that seems directly linked to the fact funding and staff has also fallen in that time, and now healthcare spending in the UK comes in at roughly half the cost per person than in the US, meaning the US government spend more on healthcare per person than in the UK one does when you take into account they still fund close to 50% of American healthcare through general taxation(Though of course still fund a much lower %age than any other G7 nation).
Not sure comparing waiting times to another country proves anything though. NHS wait times have never been good. 10 years ago when my father was alive. He needed heart surgery. He was put on a 12month waiting list for surgery needed to save his life. It was only because he had a heart attack again that they pushed him up. Waiting times in the Local ER might be better, but queues for serious surgeries has been complete dog s**t for as long as I can remember.

I lost my cousin from having to wait too long for his surgery when all he needed was a clot removed from his leg. It moved to his brain. That was 8 years ago. Ever since then our family went private and its never been better. The Nurses and Doctors are not the problem, its the way the system is handled.

Too easy is it to get handouts on simple pills you can buy yourself when NHS get charged 400% more for. them. Then when the time comes that funding is badly needed, its not there.
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  #18  
Old 19-02-19, 07:46 AM
NeverBackDown NeverBackDown is offline
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Originally Posted by looz View Post
This kind of thinking really irks me, I guess this is the Post Truth Society(tm) we live in now, combined with clickbait media misrepresenting the studies. Oh and obviously the US also has more people per capita.

It's literally a matter of taking a look at the actual paper or reading a more level-headed take on the paper's results. Then you can actually think about the results instead of hiding behind a wall of this probably doesn't apply to us/studies say all kinds of things/study is fake anyway.

And wait, first you agree that US has longer wait times, yet later you mention easier access and more spread out load? Which one is it?
What thinking? Logic? Sure
How am I supposed to read said study without a link? Besides that the health care systems are so different it's hardly comparable. I never agreed with anything, my point about having more access is true. Which means lower wait times. For all I know they choose the top 10 US wait time hospitals.

Honestly the post truth society stuff I deal with all the time. I deal with leftists, hardcore ones at that, basically everyday. I know how it is. Gun control is the most obvious example of Post Truth Society, in the US at least. However me not caring about some UK study about healthcare against the US is not related. It's more likely biased, created by people who have not experienced both, and just reading stats. Stats don't tell everything as I alluded to. If a third party EU/UK and then a US one did the same study with them it would be much more enlightening. I don't proclaim as you make it seem that the US health system is better. I've already stated both are drawbacks. I don't believe one is better than the other. All I know is for anything critical here you don't wait. You get treated immediately, babies always go first, and non threatening issues get pushed last. As it should be. Outside of everything gets treated immediately anywhere anytime, I don't believe it gets much better. But as all the networking companies allude to, 5G bands should allow us to get there sooner than later. I'm skeptical however about that
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  #19  
Old 19-02-19, 08:57 AM
tgrech tgrech is offline
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Nope, I don't think you could be further from the truth, it wasn't a UK study, it's a (fairly well known) peer reviewed journal article in a well respected publication on health & medicine comparing the differences in a variety of health care systems around the world. In fact, it specifically deals with the lack of comparability in raw statistics as a key point of the article:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...68851013001759

I was talking about waiting times to first see your doctor regarding an issue you call in about, in many American cities it is apparently common for this to take 3-5 weeks. There's definitely still big issues with it in the UK, my point was just that there's nothing to suggest those issues would ever be solved by privatisation(That's the benefit of a non government ran health system. People will always have access), which from real world examples seems to guarantee reduced efficiency of service as far more motives and many players with minimal cooperation or a desire for competitiveness are introduced into the service. But of course, the much bigger issue with privatisation is that waiting times can have a secondary factor at play: the quality of your health insurance.

Although like I said, things have definitely gotten worse since then, a few years ago I got rushed to A&E by ambulance only to have to wait 6 hours to get seen in one of the largest & most advanced/modern hospitals in the country (Queen Elizabeth Birmingham) because they no longer had the funds to keep more than one doctor on over a saturday night.
Though yeah there's always been certain types of specialist surgery's with ridiculous waiting lists but again that's a funding/staffing problem, around 10% of NHS staff positions are currently vacant, and we're talking about the fifth largest employer in the world:
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  #20  
Old 19-02-19, 09:22 AM
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Decent public health care like NHS or ones we have in Scandinavia runs circles around a privatised insurance focused system like one in USA, where insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies reap benefits. That changes the dynamics so that its in healthcare companies best interest to keep patients on prescription as long as possible and getting coverage with existing conditions is difficult. Using USA as an example, the system is ridiculously expensive (per capita), while many can't even afford proper care. Even with rampant obesity those are telltale signs of a broken system.

It's a shame that NHS and the Finnish healthcare system are constantly under threat when right wing parties are in power, as they'd rather tear it down. Such changes are happening here as well, where parts of the healthcare system are being privatised and results have been questionable at best. For instance, assisted living facilities have been partially moved to private contractors and as a result they're understaffed as a cost cutting measure.
What makes the situation even more puzzling is that many of these parties win votes by campaigning against immigration and by upholding traditional family values, which seems to attract votes from the working class. And they're also hurt the most when budget cuts hit public health care, pensions and so forth.
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