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  #21  
Old 20-03-19, 01:45 PM
tgrech tgrech is offline
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Yeah I get that in super competitive environments that's meaningful but the fact is for most of us our reaction times have been going down hill for several years and for some several decades, the 200ms figure is pretty unreachable for all but like athletes if you're over 21.

I think often these laggy setups have firm triple figure latencies, with the say 50ms of a bad TV, on top of 33.3ms of the frame render time at 30fps, on top of say 25ms for a bad wireless controller and so on.

High bluetooth polling rates are just to make up for the inherently higher "flight time" of each packet/button press though, you're still looking at about 1 frames worth of additional latency from a DS4 over bluetooth, and that's obviously the best case scenario(The Rocket League community is actually a really exhaustive source of data for this kind of stuff):

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  #22  
Old 20-03-19, 01:55 PM
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looz looz is offline
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Originally Posted by tgrech View Post
the 200ms figure is pretty unreachable for all but like athletes if you're over 21.
This is pretty far from the truth IMO, alertness plays a big role but you can test it here yourself. It doesn't even compensate for equipment lag. For the record, my average of 5 was 172ms and I'm everything but athletic and in my late 20s. :P
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  #23  
Old 20-03-19, 02:03 PM
tgrech tgrech is offline
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Not at all comparable, that's an SRT(Simple response task), gaming is a CRT(choice). Obviously audio and touch reactions are also often sub-200, but we mostly game via our vision, and our games pretty much always involve making choices.
Here's some reading on the difference between the task above and say playing a game: https://www.psytoolkit.org/lessons/s...hoice_rts.html

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When there is just one stimulus and one response, many people can respond well below 200 ms, that is less than 1/5th of a second! In choice response time tasks with 2 stimuli and 2 responses (that is the simplest possible choice response time task), responding within 250 ms is probably the fastest you can do, but more typically people have an average response somewhere between 350 and 450 ms.

Personally I rarely get much below 300ms on those SRT things and I'm 21, but I guess I've had a kinda spotty childhood regarding substance use that may have impacted that lolrip.
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  #24  
Old 20-03-19, 02:09 PM
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Daiyus Daiyus is offline
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Originally Posted by demonking View Post
If you are a steam user you are already in that boat. You subscribe to the games, If steam disappeared off the planet (somehow) you would (legally speaking) never be able to play those games again. It is how Steam circumvents a lot of laws as you are not buying anything from them you are paying for a subscription.
Either way you are technically already doing this if you have games on steam, Origin, Uplay or Epic. The only one I am aware of that allows you to "buy" games is GOG.
Like I said, I may have to crack the files but if Steam, Uplay, Origin etc all shut down tomorrow I would have something on my system to work with. Legal? Maybe not, but I have something under my control that I can manipulate if needs be.

Moving from physical media to digital distribution was a hard pill for me to swallow, but I accepted it as long I had the files locally on my computer. I even keep every game I own installed so I always have a copy of everything I own.

I won't accept streaming only.
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  #25  
Old 20-03-19, 02:20 PM
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looz looz is offline
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Originally Posted by tgrech View Post
Not at all comparable, that's an SRT(Simple response task), gaming is a CRT(choice). Obviously audio and touch reactions are also often sub-200, but we mostly game via our vision, and our games pretty much always involve making choices.
Here's some reading on the difference between the task above and say playing a game: https://www.psytoolkit.org/lessons/s...hoice_rts.html


Personally I rarely get much below 300ms on those SRT things and I'm 21, but I guess I've had a kinda spotty childhood regarding substance use that may have impacted that lolrip.
Interesting, now that I think about it in regards to CS in particular one of the goals is setting yourself up in a way that landing a frag essentially becomes as close to a single response task as possible. One example from arguably the best player in the world currently.
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  #26  
Old 20-03-19, 02:38 PM
SPS SPS is offline
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I'd love to be able to jump across multiple single player games no matter which device I'm using without having to download it or have it pre-installed. I welcome this an another option.
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  #27  
Old 21-03-19, 02:39 AM
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seeing as google will be using AMD GPUs, this should mean a healthy amount of optimisation for AMD GPUs moving forward
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  #28  
Old 21-03-19, 05:26 AM
NeverBackDown NeverBackDown is offline
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Originally Posted by SPS View Post
I'd love to be able to jump across multiple single player games no matter which device I'm using without having to download it or have it pre-installed. I welcome this an another option.
That is how i view it as well. I am just hesitant on the latency/input lag and pricing structure.
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  #29  
Old 21-03-19, 08:05 AM
ET3D ET3D is offline
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Originally Posted by looz View Post
What a short-sighted way of looking at it, this means there's no possibility of lag compensation.
I wouldn't say there's no possibility. Google could certainly provide the game with latency figures. It would not be the same kind of compensation, but I think it would be viable.

Compensation by the game doesn't actually solve the lag problem (although it's certainly needed to create a more consistent result), which is why players still care a lot about lag. When playing on the cloud, players will have to get used to compensating a different way, which I agree initially will be a problem, but I think that players growing on cloud gaming will likely be able to compensate as well as people used to current network lag.

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Originally Posted by Kleptobot View Post
seeing as google will be using AMD GPUs, this should mean a healthy amount of optimisation for AMD GPUs moving forward
We already have a healthy amount of optimisation for AMD GPUs due to consoles. I don't think this would change the situation. What I do think will change is increased support for Linux. AAA games on Linux would be a major change for gaming. Google has the money to help make that happen.
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  #30  
Old 21-03-19, 01:46 PM
Pendragon Pendragon is offline
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Originally Posted by Daiyus View Post
Call me old fashioned, but I just don't think I'll ever buy into this games as a service thing. I like to know that should a company shut down I'll have the files on my computer. I may need to crack them to play them, but they're there just in case.


And yes, I do still buy CDs and Blu-rays. I even buy proper paper books.
I tend to agree but I like Netflix for the convenience, I also still buy real media!

Just to be able to play a game much in the way I watch Netflix. If they are expecting me to "buy" the games I want to play then no, that not so good. Rent them either by the hour or as part of a subscription bundle then great. I would not "Buy" a game I couldn't download and keep a backup of. Just in the same way I don't "Buy" movies from Google or other streaming sites. That's not buying, that long term renting.


As for real media, I recently got a BlueRay player in part because I wanted all of the extra content you don't get when you torrent the film. Also books, it doesn't matter how many books I download or get from Humblebundle I never read them. Real books get read. I also have a few audio CD's for the car and UK radio is crap. Better than my last car that only had a tape deck, I found myself listing to stuff I had back in the '80s!
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