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  #21  
Old 03-06-20, 01:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Kleptobot View Post
i feel like everyone is slowly converging on the same argument which essentially boils down to... 'horses for courses'
It is not. The point is, as Intel CEO is trying to allude, and as I have stated above, that many benchmarks are pointless and don't give you the correct answer. And they couldn't be further away from the real-world performance. In all "productivity" benchmarks (Cinebench, V-Ray, Corona, Blender, etc.) 3950X beats 9900K by a hefty margin. And all reviewers are singing like a choir "3950X is much better for productivity because it beats 9900K in all benchmarks". But 3950X is NOT a better CPU than 9900K for any application that uses those renders. Because you don't render with CPU. Don't get me wrong they can both do a very good job but the performance (mainly viewport in all those apps) is on the side of Intel and it is noticeable and measurable.

The "reviewer consensus" is: "Don't bother with Intel if you want productivity you must go with AMD." That is so completely wrong.

PugetSystems is recommending 9900K as the best CPU for Editing Rigs!!! Why is that? And they are a very smart bunch of people.

The only workload I would explicitly recommend AMD over Intel is 4K and above video rendering.

For everything else like 3D modeling (3ds Max, Maya, Blender, SolidWorks, Sketchup), design (AutoCAD all variants), Photoshop, Music Production, ... Intel is the better CPU.

Why? You might ask. Because of this:

- All those tasks cannot be properly parallelized as Tiled rendering can. It means that the tasks are executed in sequence and that is where Intel's superior latency and single-thread performance comes to light. It doesn't matter that you have 32 cores because 28 of them can't do a thing until 2 cores finish their task. That is why Intel CPUs are superior in gaming.

- All applications in the past 10 or more years are specifically designed and optimized for Intel. Sad but true, and you can't go past it. It will take a long time for developers to redesign everything for AMD.

The actual real-world performance king, despite all benchmark results, for production and gaming (except 4Kvideo editing) was 9900K and now 10900K and not 3950X.

I must emphasize again the performance gap isn't gargantuan. They are both good CPUs. Expect it to be like in games. And there Intel is undisputedly better.

And again I am not Intel fanboy and everything I have said in this post is provable. So please restrain your self from hateful comments.

Edit 1: AMD hype is mostly propagated because all reviewers are mainly doing Video editing and that makes them a bit biased towards AMD. Because Ryzen is a really good CPU for that.

Edit 2: Also if you are a Linux GURU and you do 7 compiles at the same time while having 6 VMS running Threadripper is Godsent.

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  #22  
Old 03-06-20, 01:44 AM
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I was agreeing with you, but i think my statement may have been misleading. I was intending it to be understood as pick the hardware that is best suited to your task not a benchmark. But i can see how that did not come across.

EDIT: the horses being the hardware and the courses being the tasks you want to perform
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  #23  
Old 03-06-20, 02:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Kleptobot View Post
I was agreeing with you, but i think my statement may have been misleading. I was intending it to be understood as pick the hardware that is best suited to your task not a benchmark. But i can see how that did not come across.

EDIT: the horses being the hardware and the courses being the tasks you want to perform
Yea. You have a choice now. Which is great. Buy whatever you want. It is your money. But if you are just a regular Joe and not a computer geek and you want to buy a balling computer for Blender most of the popular review channels will give you the wrong information.

Just flaws of YouTube. Everyone is following the hype, click baits, and copying everyone else.
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  #24  
Old 03-06-20, 09:18 AM
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Well one thing we need to keep in mind now has nothing to do with workloads. The 9900k and also 10900k... The heat these cpus produce is something I would not want to have in my system unless running a full WC setup.

I would take a lower performing processor that peaked at 80C over a higher performer that is approaching TDP of 105C.
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  #25  
Old 03-06-20, 12:37 PM
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HAHAHAHAHAHA

Intel:
2015: Look at these benchmarks, we are at the top and better at everything and you should buy our product based on these
2020: Don't look at benchmarks they don't demonstrate real world performance and you should not buy a product based on synthetic benchmarks(because we are no longer at the top of most of them)

Looks like Intel's reputation is going the same way as their performance advantage. Good luck with eating your own hat
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  #26  
Old 03-06-20, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Warchild View Post
Well one thing we need to keep in mind now has nothing to do with workloads. The 9900k and also 10900k... The heat these cpus produce is something I would not want to have in my system unless running a full WC setup.

I would take a lower performing processor that peaked at 80C over a higher performer that is approaching TDP of 105C.
9900K is a furnace. 10900K is actually quite easy to cool. For most users, high-end air coolers or any AIO above 240 will have no problem with cooling it quietly if you don't overclock it balls to the wall.

If you want to extract every single bit of performance then yea a proper WC loop and delid are required.
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  #27  
Old 03-06-20, 12:45 PM
Warchild Warchild is offline
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Originally Posted by Avet View Post
9900K is a furnace. 10900K is actually quite easy to cool. For most users, high-end air coolers or any AIO above 240 will have no problem with cooling it quietly if you don't overclock it balls to the wall.

If you want to extract every single bit of performance then yea a proper WC loop and delid are required.

Exactly, and this option is a niche market, yet many users will opt for an AIO or god forbid.. Air cooler. That simply isnt good enough.

But how is a 10900k easier to cool than a 9900k when its effectively the same thing with 2 more cores? What I have seen with a 240 AIO has not been pretty.
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  #28  
Old 03-06-20, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Warchild View Post
Exactly, and this option is a niche market, yet many users will opt for an AIO or god forbid.. Air cooler. That simply isnt good enough.

But how is a 10900k easier to cool than a 9900k when its effectively the same thing with 2 more cores? What I have seen with a 240 AIO has not been pretty.
Most users won't overclock their CPU to 5.3 GHz all-core with 4600MHz memory and tight all three tiers of timings. For stock settings and normal use conventional cooling is good enough.

For example, I would never run a Threadripper system without a dedicated WC loop. For the workloads that you need that much horsepower, you leave so much performance behind with AIOs or Air coolers.

Edit: Wendell form Level1 has started building custom WC for his Threadripper systems. That is saying few things.
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  #29  
Old 03-06-20, 05:30 PM
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Also worth noting that in many real world tasks the short boost windows work wonders, and a cooler with enough thermal mass will soak those load spikes without issues.
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  #30  
Old 04-06-20, 08:26 AM
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Also worth noting that in many real world tasks the short boost windows work wonders, and a cooler with enough thermal mass will soak those load spikes without issues.
That is exactly why AIO coolers are better than Air. Watter has immense thermal capacity. Even though they might have the same max temperatures during long tests the time it takes to saturate cooler is much longer on water, and because of that, they will dampen heat spikes much better.
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