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  #71  
Old 14-09-17, 09:47 AM
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AlienALX AlienALX is offline
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Originally Posted by WYP View Post
Well, the response to that is fairly simple, look at the temperatures that Ryzen runs at. The CPU has a thermal cut off of around 70 degrees, do you think AMD could afford not to solder their Ryzen chips?

Perhaps for AMD, it isn't a matter of cost, it is a matter of having enough CPUs that run well. Just imagine how hard Ryzen would be to run or overclock if the CPU wasn't soldered.

The question is whether AMD would avoid using thermal paste if they didn't need to? None of us works for either company so any thoughts on the reasons for it are just opinions, regardless of how well informed the person thinks they are.
Then how come they launched Ryzen so cheaply when they didn't have to? I know, mindshare/land grab and all that but they must be making profit.

Der8auer goes on about how expensive indium and other precious metals are. Yet, AMD still sell a £270 8 core CPU with a cooler (the 1700) and the 1600 that also comes with a cooler and uses the same amount of solder for less than £200.

And of course the 1200, which is £99 and comes with a cooler and also uses solder.

Intel must me nickel and diming. Otherwise why make Skylake CPUs thinner?

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  #72  
Old 14-09-17, 10:25 AM
Warchild Warchild is offline
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Originally Posted by AlienALX View Post
No, just over 30 years of experience with electronics and stuff. And soldering of course. I spent the best part of five years soldering for about 8 hours a day.

I've seen you argue with people before. You take one thing and then hold onto it like a dog with a bone, completely ignoring all of the facts around you. So, given that is the case answer my question.

Why is it that AMD have soldered CPUs ever since the first dual core and you've never had issues.

There. One question.

As for my experience with electronics?

https://forum.overclock3d.net/showth...t=77462&page=8

There you go. Make sure you read it all of course, especially the bit where I -

1. Took a power supply apart and
2. Completely rewired it from the inside out.

The stereo has been on for 24 hours a day since and is still running fine.
That's electrical not electronic hehe There is a big difference between the two.

As for Indium, I don't think its anywhere near as expensive as it used to be, so not sure why he would say that.
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  #73  
Old 14-09-17, 10:28 AM
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That's electrical not electronic hehe There is a big difference between the two.
It's both. As in my experience, with both. As for the link? taking apart a power supply and rewiring it requires a lot of knowledge of both. Electrical experience is wiring houses, fitting ceiling fans and so on. Dumb objects, not objects like car head units which are electronic.
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  #74  
Old 14-09-17, 10:58 AM
Warchild Warchild is offline
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Originally Posted by AlienALX View Post
It's both. As in my experience, with both. As for the link? taking apart a power supply and rewiring it requires a lot of knowledge of both. Electrical experience is wiring houses, fitting ceiling fans and so on. Dumb objects, not objects like car head units which are electronic.
AlienALX its not. Electrical is the regulation, manual control, and Generation, UTilization and measurement. in other words V=IR

Electronic put simple is all about controlling electrons. Its Automatic control which is pretty much transistors etc. Now there is a link between the two by means of relays, but rewiring a psu is nothing to do with electronics.

AC input > Transformer > Rectifier > Filter > regulator > DC Output

Anyway I wanted to quote something you said earlier but couldnt find it.

You mentioned something like "not that i trust the guy when he looks half my age". That is the most absurd, immature and ridiculous comment. It's like me saying, I won't believe anything you say because you are a senile old, deceprid waste of oxygen. Of course totally not true (and only used as an example), but talk about judging a book by its cover in the worst sense...

It really P***ed me off people who made comments like that. I was a 21yr old RAF officer with a master in electrical and electronic engineering. I had to put up with it all the time from people who thought they knew more than me.... derailed a little there

I just don't understand why you have to get so rude in posts. You did exactly the same with me in another thread on the very same subject. It's just a shame Kaapstad had to make a comment on score because that made him no better.


But on the topic.

Surely the whole Solder vs TIM nonsense comes down to the architecture of the CPU? I mean its all good to use liquid metal under my IHS but maybe factory solder could over time cause minor stress dmg? IT's going to be one of those things we will never prove, simply because you would need to test this over a number of years in real world scenarios, not min/maxing cycles in short spans. If AMD can get away with it, then fantastic, let Intel sweat over it instead of us.
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Old 14-09-17, 11:32 AM
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I'm just a firm believer in experience. In the field experience, not knowledge. They are very different things. There is a reason why people start where they do in life and work their way up a ladder. Computers, car stereos, amplifiers and so on are electronics. They are electronic items.

Why am I rude? do you mean why am I deliberately rude? quite simple, when some one talks to me rudely I will respond in kind. Simple as that.

Now if you are asking me as to why I may come across as rude which is entirely different? because quite simply I think, work and speak in logic. And logic doesn't pander to people or kiss their rectum to make them feel better. That's how it is for most Aspies and people on the spectrum. However, I can only remember one thing I said in this thread that was deliberately rude because the debate was going nowhere.

Some one posts something to me that is supposed to be the 100% truth and be all and end all of soldering on CPUs. However, I read that "article" in its entirety and it was full of holes and contradictions. I immediately pointed this out (asking how he managed to solder a 6700k and see a 18c drop and it be awesome on air cooling etc) and the brick wall went up. All of a sudden he doesn't want to talk about logic or holes in the article he wants to keep repeating himself.

So I asked him the same question three times. No answer. Eventually we got an excuse, but that wasn't an answer.

If it comes down to the architecture of the CPU then why does Intel solder exactly the same technology and call it a Xeon?

So as to why I may have come across as rude in this thread? maybe because people need to stop making excuses for some one that is ripping them off. See, that annoys me.

It would be like a fat person saying "Well my Mars bar has shrunk to half the size, it still costs the same 49p, but the candy company are doing it to reduce the calories to make me thinner ! yay for them ! aren't they awesome? how thoughtful etc etc".

BS is BS. And there is plenty of it from Intel. Every time they do something that is a blatant slap in the face you have people running along to to excuse it. When it's quite obvious to any one with an IQ as high as a pea that they are doing it to screw more money out of people. Cutting corners, cheaping out.

You've even got some guy in this thread debating by proxy, but wants to buy a Ryzen 1700.

LOL.
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  #76  
Old 14-09-17, 12:39 PM
Warchild Warchild is offline
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Originally Posted by AlienALX View Post
I'm just a firm believer in experience. In the field experience, not knowledge. They are very different things. There is a reason why people start where they do in life and work their way up a ladder. Computers, car stereos, amplifiers and so on are electronics. They are electronic items.

Why am I rude? do you mean why am I deliberately rude? quite simple, when some one talks to me rudely I will respond in kind. Simple as that.

Now if you are asking me as to why I may come across as rude which is entirely different? because quite simply I think, work and speak in logic. And logic doesn't pander to people or kiss their rectum to make them feel better. That's how it is for most Aspies and people on the spectrum. However, I can only remember one thing I said in this thread that was deliberately rude because the debate was going nowhere.

Some one posts something to me that is supposed to be the 100% truth and be all and end all of soldering on CPUs. However, I read that "article" in its entirety and it was full of holes and contradictions. I immediately pointed this out (asking how he managed to solder a 6700k and see a 18c drop and it be awesome on air cooling etc) and the brick wall went up. All of a sudden he doesn't want to talk about logic or holes in the article he wants to keep repeating himself.

So I asked him the same question three times. No answer. Eventually we got an excuse, but that wasn't an answer.

If it comes down to the architecture of the CPU then why does Intel solder exactly the same technology and call it a Xeon?

So as to why I may have come across as rude in this thread? maybe because people need to stop making excuses for some one that is ripping them off. See, that annoys me.

It would be like a fat person saying "Well my Mars bar has shrunk to half the size, it still costs the same 49p, but the candy company are doing it to reduce the calories to make me thinner ! yay for them ! aren't they awesome? how thoughtful etc etc".

BS is BS. And there is plenty of it from Intel. Every time they do something that is a blatant slap in the face you have people running along to to excuse it. When it's quite obvious to any one with an IQ as high as a pea that they are doing it to screw more money out of people. Cutting corners, cheaping out.

You've even got some guy in this thread debating by proxy, but wants to buy a Ryzen 1700.

LOL.
I won't bother commenting on the electrical vs electronic thing because that will probably trail off endlessly with you.

As for debating by proxy. What is wrong with that? Kaapstad believes Debauer is a reputable source and is quoting his source. If anything he is debating correctly. If you argue something, you want facts to back it up. Who said it had to be the top Intel Scientists or AMD secret metallurgy society? He gave posts with info that are of good content. While I am not taking sides, you haven't provided anything to back up your statements.

Debauer has enough experience, and knowledge to make his points worth considering. You don't have to accept them. To think otherwise is just naive.

Personally I don't believe the average user would be affected by result of solder thermal cycling, but it doesn't mean it won't happen.

Besides all this, I thought you were going to stop making comments in this thread pages ago!
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