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  #21  
Old 29-12-17, 05:18 AM
NeverBackDown NeverBackDown is offline
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Not sure who you are talking to but I don't want to be blunt but don't sound like a know it all?

Also you are contradicting yourself here.

You say its meant to get the cleanest sound possible. Ironically that's exactly what "audiophiles" aim to do. That word btw is just gross and has so much negativity to it and misinformation.
Getting the cleanest sound is exactly what a DAC is for.

Also in regards to your recommendations for gear of course it's going to beat anything they have. The DAC alone is more than most entire setups. I would hope at least a $3000 setup would be better than anything less. It's a backwards argument. In addition not everybody cares for original recordings because it may sound bad to some people or usually it's poorly mastered. I know people who like Jazz music complain about this a lot.

In regards to your summary, if you were talking to me I didn't say that was wrong. I always recommend external. As most people have actually with the Fiio e10k.

You might not need it but using an AMP can still improve the quality even if your current setup is capable of it. Some headphones just like power. Like high end Beyers for example excel with extra power.

That's a pretty bad advice tip honestly. Not everybody is after professional grade gear. You don't need an audiophile either to tell you what's good or not. Although they would probably give better advice anyway as they are more in line with the actual products 99% of people would be looking at.
No one here is an audiophile yet we recommended a Fiio E10k. You didn't need to be a pro for that either. It's a good quality cheap unit. It's very popular for a reason.

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  #22  
Old 29-12-17, 09:23 AM
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Thanks for all the advice and suggestions guys. And thanks for playing nicely, cough .
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  #23  
Old 29-12-17, 11:21 AM
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I am not know it all, nor i tend to be. It is difficult to put my thoughts in one post and for it to be understandable, and not to unintentionally provoke someone. The fact is that i have more than most experience in this subject but, as Tom often says this is the conversation for pub, and few pints of lager. When it is a two way conversation.

Clean and clear sound are different things. Clean sound is in it's purest form. As it is after recording, and as it was originally mixed. Professional headphones/speakers have flat frequency response. They don't oversaturate some parts of the spectrum. They are flat. For example gaming headphones have stronger lower frequencies to give better feeling during explosions, and more in the middle freq. so you can hear footsteps better, and lower highs. For rock/metal music you can have boosted base, and treble, but lower mid range. Every of those types, or setups can have clear (crispy) sound where there is no noise.

As many people don't know tube amps color the sound in a different way. Depending on the tube. That is why Marshall amps give them unique tone, which is different from Ibanez amp. Electronics got on a wrong foot long ago, because it could not replicate original sound from tube amps (now you can simulate almost anything). And everyone was aaaa tube amps are better. On the other hand it is difficult for tube amp to give clean sound without color, but electronics do that easy.

When you have piles of gear you color the sound. It is tuning, and you are modifying music to your liking, and then you argue your setup is the best. And what i don't like in audiophile community is that fan boy obsession. Which is counter productive.

Professional gear doesn't color the sound. It delivers it in it's purest form As it is on the recording.

And there is a lot more of story in between. If we had this conversation in a pub you wouldn't think me as a know it all wanna be. We could dive deeper in some parts, we can agree that what i have said in the previous post is a general situation with audiophiles. Some of them can give you good advice, and not judge your setup because you did it all wrong. Not all fan boys/girls are fanatics. And i would really like to sit down and talk properly. If we ever get a chance it would be amazing. Cheers.
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  #24  
Old 29-12-17, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avet View Post
I am not know it all, nor i tend to be.
Then to be honest you should change your tone a little (pardon the pun) and listen to what others have to say. Especially as audio is so subjective.

Everything you seem to say is set in stone. IE - these are the best speakers and this is the best way etc.

Also some of us are audiophiles and do have the critical listening skills and experience necessary to be able to tell good from great. As for expensive cables and etc in your rant? whilst I do agree with you in part (that once you get to a certain level of metals etc it doesn't make any difference) there is also the question of quality. I have been chasing my ass around for a week now replacing all of the "Looked really good and were quite cheap" cables in my surround rig as one by one they are all failing.

One thing you need to learn here is that pretty much every one who posts here has a good idea of what is what. We don't need teaching.
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  #25  
Old 29-12-17, 12:09 PM
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I do read posts. And i try to be as neutral as possible. As of set in stone. If I say something is better or worse i will explain why. As i have explained why is better to have DAC outside of your case. And if you don't agree with me, or aren't convinced in my sayings why not ask why do i think that. You don't need to attack me. As i have said i would really like to have this conversation in person. I am not saying i know more than you. I don't know you or how much you know. But there is someone who reads and doesn't have a clue. We are going way off topic here. And we should stop. This is a conversation for another time and place.
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  #26  
Old 29-12-17, 04:40 PM
NeverBackDown NeverBackDown is offline
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All I'm going to say is even professional grade headphones color sound. Not all are completely flat.
Just seems like you are inflating everything because of how you feel about audiophiles.
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  #27  
Old 29-12-17, 06:01 PM
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I will bet a pint you won't be able to tell the difference between the on-board DAC+AMP on Z97 Gaming 3 and Fiio E10k in a blind test, assuming the on-board amp is sufficient to drive the K550. Both of them are entry level audio solutions, and even the MSI on-board audio is isolated.

I agree that buying an external DAC makes sense when the on-board audio stinks and isn't even isolated properly. It was also the norm not too long ago. That isn't the case here, however. If the headphone amplifier isn't beefy enough a plain headphone amp with no DAC could also be a sensible solution.

When you're looking to drive 150€ closed headphones better you run to diminishing returns really quickly.

Interesting read: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...udio,3733.html
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  #28  
Old 29-12-17, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by looz View Post
I will bet a pint you won't be able to tell the difference between the on-board DAC+AMP on Z97 Gaming 3 and Fiio E10k in a blind test, assuming the on-board amp is sufficient to drive the K550. Both of them are entry level audio solutions, and even the MSI on-board audio is isolated.

I agree that buying an external DAC makes sense when the on-board audio stinks and isn't even isolated properly. It was also the norm not too long ago. That isn't the case here, however. If the headphone amplifier isn't beefy enough a plain headphone amp with no DAC could also be a sensible solution.

When you're looking to drive 150€ closed headphones better you run to diminishing returns really quickly.

Interesting read: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...udio,3733.html
Deal. If we ever meet how ever old we are and the pint would kill us i'll take that bet.
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  #29  
Old 30-12-17, 02:05 AM
NeverBackDown NeverBackDown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by looz View Post
I will bet a pint you won't be able to tell the difference between the on-board DAC+AMP on Z97 Gaming 3 and Fiio E10k in a blind test, assuming the on-board amp is sufficient to drive the K550. Both of them are entry level audio solutions, and even the MSI on-board audio is isolated.

I agree that buying an external DAC makes sense when the on-board audio stinks and isn't even isolated properly. It was also the norm not too long ago. That isn't the case here, however. If the headphone amplifier isn't beefy enough a plain headphone amp with no DAC could also be a sensible solution.

When you're looking to drive 150€ closed headphones better you run to diminishing returns really quickly.

Interesting read: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...udio,3733.html
I can hear a difference between many different sets of gear. I have very sensitive hearing it's on the verge of being annoying. But for most people I agree they probably wouldn't notice. The Fiio would be better and at the very least if OP couldn't hear a difference it would at least not distort sound at high volumes.
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  #30  
Old 30-12-17, 01:49 PM
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AlienALX AlienALX is offline
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Originally Posted by NeverBackDown View Post
I can hear a difference between many different sets of gear. I have very sensitive hearing it's on the verge of being annoying. But for most people I agree they probably wouldn't notice. The Fiio would be better and at the very least if OP couldn't hear a difference it would at least not distort sound at high volumes.
I'm a fussy listener, too. I remember about ten years ago I bought a Kicker Solobaric woofer. 12", top of the line, supposedly one of the best in the world. I absolutely frackin HATED it. It sounded nice at low volumes, then as the volume increased it just sounded like it was slapping you in the back. Had to go.. Kicker fans all hated me for that !

Talking of car audio I may have found a solution to all of my woes.



Ground loop isolator. When I connected up the TV gaming PC there was some noise during South Park : The Stick Of Truth. However, load the GPU with anything remotely heavier (like South Park TFBW) and it just starts ferkin whining. It does it on every PC I have and every sound card (about seven) apart from my Aune USB DAC, which I strongly suspect has a GLI built into it.
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