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  #4501  
Old 26-09-20, 09:42 AM
Warchild Warchild is offline
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Originally Posted by Greenback View Post
What I found a worry in JZ's video was colorful saying they will send him a different card, does that mean they will remove all the ones like he had? (no). or they will send him a modded 1 and what you buy will not march what he reviews or more lightly they send him a more expensive SKU.
One of those times Asus tax could be value for money tax
Quite possible that all AIB will switch to using at least one quality array from here on. We know stock is empty, so they have minimal recalls/RMA to fulfill.

From the look of it, design wise, its an easy swap so the next flood of cards that hit the market may have this covered.

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  #4502  
Old 26-09-20, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Warchild View Post
Quite possible that all AIB will switch to using at least one quality array from here on. We know stock is empty, so they have minimal recalls/RMA to fulfill.

From the look of it, design wise, its an easy swap so the next flood of cards that hit the market may have this covered.
As jz said they are advertised as 1710 clock so as long as your card can do that you have no grounds to RMA, they could send out a firmware that locks the Boost at 1790 and they've sorted the problem.
I think I'd go with JZ it's cheaper to fix firmware than do a retool, 1 of those cases you really are going to get what you pay for, cheap card low clock boost
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  #4503  
Old 26-09-20, 10:27 AM
tgrech tgrech is offline
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To be fair this change wouldn't need a proper retool, this isn't a change in the PCB design itself, it'll be just a change in the SMD stencil (That makes sure the solder goes on the right bits) and obviously the few parts(You just reprogram the SMD assembly tools for different placement), essentially trivial costs for a new stencil for companies this big, and the BOM cost change isn't going to be more than a £5er for a handful more SMD caps.

I'd assume they'd be on it more or less as soon as the problem has been identified, it looks like many noticed it more or less as soon as they could, when they got access to full drivers, going from how some have responses already.

If they did send Jay a custom unit, it would be fairly easy to tell, hand soldering tiny SMD parts is basically impossible to do neatly, it's very easy to tell apart from a machine job, and if they've got a machine to do it they will have already done the work for retooling.
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  #4504  
Old 26-09-20, 10:27 AM
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With so many AIBs supposedly facing issues, it seems more probable that there was a problem with Nvidia's specifications.

Combine that with a reportedly short timeframe for testing, and Nvidia was asking for this.

It looks like the RTX 30 series may have been pushed out the door. It makes sense, new consoles and RDNA 2 are on Nvidia's doorstep.
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  #4505  
Old 26-09-20, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Greenback View Post
What I found a worry in JZ's video was colorful saying they will send him a different card, does that mean they will remove all the ones like he had? (no). or they will send him a modded 1 and what you buy will not march what he reviews or more lightly they send him a more expensive SKU.
One of those times Asus tax could be value for money tax
I don't buy Asus. Well, very very rarely. However, I also don't buy cheap entry level crap cards. Never have and never will. Same way I have never ran a cheap PSU and thus have never had one blow up.

The reality is going to be that the £649 card was a pipe dream. Which I also said many times before they actually launched. The revised ones with more on them are going to cost more.

I don't even blame the poor sods trying to earn a living out of this either. Had Nvidia not set them an impossible task this wouldn't have happened.
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  #4506  
Old 26-09-20, 11:02 AM
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I don't buy Asus. Well, very very rarely. However, I also don't buy cheap entry level crap cards. Never have and never will. Same way I have never ran a cheap PSU and thus have never had one blow up.

The reality is going to be that the £649 card was a pipe dream. Which I also said many times before they actually launched. The revised ones with more on them are going to cost more.

I don't even blame the poor sods trying to earn a living out of this either. Had Nvidia not set them an impossible task this wouldn't have happened.

Not really, Nvidia will get more stock in and continue to have the 3080 at £649 on their own store, The issue is the AIB's cutting corners to increase their profit margins, Aftermarket cards being £699 is not an issue as long as they can perform, Have better cooling, Power delivery/filtering etc...
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  #4507  
Old 26-09-20, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Dicehunter View Post
Not really, Nvidia will get more stock in and continue to have the 3080 at £649 on their own store, The issue is the AIB's cutting corners to increase their profit margins, Aftermarket cards being £699 is not an issue as long as they can perform, Have better cooling, Power delivery/filtering etc...
Nvidia? lol. They never intended it to be a £649 card. That was done purely because they know what is coming this year. Those Founders cards? there is no way they are making their 60% on those dude. Never, not in a million years. Let's wait and see how long it is before any old user can go and buy one at his leisure.

The AIBs are cutting corners because Nvidia sold a promise they could not meet. Every single one of them will be thinking "s**t, we need to try and make a card at that £650 so we can sell". Remember, it's an incredibly competitive market and only the big fish can charge lots (like Asus and EVGA) and get away with it. The smaller fry? like Colorful etc? have to make a profit.

I don't blame them. At all. They are only trying to survive (if you saw the figures like I have from my pal in Taiwan you would understand). I blame the poor node. The ridiculous power use and ETC.

Fact is this core needs tantalum caps. And they are expensive. Analogue caps are not going to cut it. The funny part is analogue caps worked perfectly well on Turing. Funny that isn't it?

Here's another chance for me to be wrong. Get your humble pie ready, as my neck is going out on the chopping block AGAIN.

The 3070 has been made solely based on the spec of the upcoming consoles. The raw TFLOPS of the XBSX that we know of are about the same as a 2080 Super. The console is set to cost $500 or £450 depending on where you live. How much is the 3070 "set to cost" again? you guessed it, about the same.

Firstly, you try getting one for that price and secondly, see if it performs about the same as a 2080 Super like the consoles are touted to.

In reality if you want a 3070 that works you are looking at £500+ and for a good one £600.

If I walked into a shop having seen a TV online for £400 and all of a sudden the sales rep told me the TV was £500.... What would you do? you would cuss him out and walk away in disgust right?

So, pray tell, why is it that Nvidia can pull this s**t day and night and people fall for it hook line and sinker?

If I ordered my shopping from Waitrose and they billed me 30% more on the day it arrives I would go ballistic. Yet Nvidia do this stuff 24/7 and people just bend over and take it.

I don't know what upsets me more. Their behaviour, or, seeing people I have a modicum of respect for falling for their BS.
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  #4508  
Old 26-09-20, 11:32 AM
Warchild Warchild is offline
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Originally Posted by Dicehunter View Post
Not really, Nvidia will get more stock in and continue to have the 3080 at £649 on their own store, The issue is the AIB's cutting corners to increase their profit margins, Aftermarket cards being £699 is not an issue as long as they can perform, Have better cooling, Power delivery/filtering etc...
As I mentioned, so far the AIB are not pricing out of control in Norway. Taking into account the poor performance of the Kroner, its realistically in the realms of the MRRP. But lets see what supply and demand does.

I see people selling their 3080 on finn.no (craigs list equiv) for about £400 more :S and they are posting names etc to prove they have them in possession.
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  #4509  
Old 26-09-20, 11:58 AM
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`It will be interesting to see where people stand who bought off Ebay if they do a recall, though I'm still betting on a firmware boost limit even on new cards
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  #4510  
Old 26-09-20, 12:02 PM
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OK so I just watched the video.

Basically then they are skimping on power delivery. That's about the upshot of it.

However, they did that on Turing and it came at no real cost. I mean sure, my single 8 pin 2070 was locked at 1950mhz in the OC software, but that was because of the single 8 pin and so on. However, it didn't crash.

A few years ago a mate of mine who lives in Taiwan and worked at the time as a journo back to the UK sent me some profit and loss reports. MSI and Gigabyte were in big trouble at the time, and he predicted that a good few of them would go under. Mostly because they were making so little on Intel boards and stuff like that and the competition so stiff that they really had to work to margins that were so tight it just wasn't feasible for them to stay in business.

A lot of this was down to brand power. You know? that Asus tax that Asus can charge and get away with because of the reputation they have built, yet companies like MSI don't have that reputation and thus have to make cheaper boards. Cheaper in every way.

EVGA are another company that can enjoy this relative safety. Again because they have built a reputation but mainly just down to simple brand loyalty because they are American and Americans like buying stuff designed by Americans. EVGA is pretty tiny in the UK by comparison.

Smaller companies? yeah they are going to struggle quite badly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenback View Post
`It will be interesting to see where people stand who bought off Ebay if they do a recall, though I'm still betting on a firmware boost limit even on new cards
Now that it seems to be more acceptable to be a little bit negative about Ampere (mainly thanks to Steve @ GN and a couple of others) I will once again talk about it.

Cheaper cards are going to have to be limited yes. You can't double the cost of the components and still sell the cards for the same prices. It just doesn't work like that. My Dual OC was cheap, and it was cheap for a reason. It had one 8 pin, and was limited to a hard 1950mhz in OC tools by the firmware. Bypassing it would have been a bad idea, as it would have likely cooked itself.



But that was OK because I knew that before I bought it. I could see the single 8 pin. I also knew that it may have analogue caps, but again that was fine. Turned out it did.

So the reality is? any of the cheaper 3080 cards will not be able to boost at their own leisure, and you will see lower clocks, and you will see much less raw performance out of those cards. Meaning every review you watched so far? means jack.

If you want that extra performance? prepare to pay extra for it. That is nothing new. However, understanding that before you blindly order a card is incredibly important.

Ampere as a design? fantastic. Ampere as a technology? brilliant. Ampere in reality because of Samsung?

I won't need to repeat what I have been saying for ages.

BTW I would just like to reiterate that I was no more negative about Turing than any other guy. I actually defended the pricing, because I knew it was expensive and knew it would be long before launch (IE putting loads back onto the die would come at a cost).

And, as much as I don't like Nvidia I still run three Turing cards. Which speaks for itself. So don't tell me I am being overly negative because I don't like Nvidia. I am being overly negative because Ampere is overly negative on Samsung. It's as simple as that and if you don't understand that? try doing some learning and reading before you get so mad at me.
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