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  #11  
Old 13-01-19, 08:45 PM
NeverBackDown NeverBackDown is offline
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Originally Posted by WYP View Post
I remember buying a GTX 460 for little more than £100. Good times.
Well manufacturing was less expensive then plus around that time frame the world was still in recession, which meant people were being stingy with money.

Now that we are past that and manufacturing is on the bleeding edge of physics, it makes sense everything is more expensive. But it is getting out of hand.

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  #12  
Old 14-01-19, 03:05 PM
Bagpuss Bagpuss is offline
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I see the Nvidia operation to beat people in to submission and accept higher prices is working.


..People seem impressed with a '60 series card launching at £330+
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  #13  
Old 14-01-19, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Bagpuss View Post
I see the Nvidia operation to beat people in to submission and accept higher prices is working.


..People seem impressed with a '60 series card launching at £330+
Well trades blows with Vega 64 in performance, has better price to performance ratio and consumes way less power. Actually it's cheaper than 56. Not sure you should get hung up on the branding of the card.
It also has better video encoding chip. Then there's support for DXR, DLSS and VRS, which may or may not be useful in the future. Vega's already functioning at full potential.
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  #14  
Old 14-01-19, 03:39 PM
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AlienALX AlienALX is offline
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Originally Posted by NeverBackDown View Post
Well manufacturing was less expensive then plus around that time frame the world was still in recession, which meant people were being stingy with money.

Now that we are past that and manufacturing is on the bleeding edge of physics, it makes sense everything is more expensive. But it is getting out of hand.
332 mm²

A 2060 is 445 mm²

So technically when it comes to materials used it's not that much bigger (about 25%).

Personally I think the 460 was cheap because Nvidia was on its knees. Fermi cost them an absolute fortune and was big, hot and power hungry. That meant people were buying ATI, and Nvidia had to resort to cutting out the middleman and selling the 460 directly themselves. It was the first time they have ever done so.

Back then ATI were very competitive. Like, down to 3 FPS in some cases, with Fermi winning at higher resolutions with AA applied. I still have a group test of the 500 series Fermi here in one of my bog mags.

The fact is that GPUs have become like phones. Status symbols, bragging rights etc. And because of that prices have exploded (that and hardly any competition from AMD at all).

People were saying that once mining crashed prices would remain high. Not true. For a while OCUK were selling Vega 56 with three high end games for £299. They need us, not the other way around basically.

Nvidia are just a joke now. Not that they weren't before, but they are now taking the biscuit good and proper.
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  #15  
Old 14-01-19, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by NeverBackDown View Post
Well manufacturing was less expensive then plus around that time frame the world was still in recession, which meant people were being stingy with money.

Now that we are past that and manufacturing is on the bleeding edge of physics, it makes sense everything is more expensive. But it is getting out of hand.
I know, I'm just pointing out that the GTX X60 series graphics cards have been creeping up in price for a long time. Perhaps I could have been more explicit.

TBH people are focusing too much on "what XX SKU costs that much? But XX-1 SKU was less expensive". It's a silly argument. Yes, I'd like the RTX 2060 to be cheaper, who wouldn't, but for the performance it offers it isn't by any means a bad buy.
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  #16  
Old 14-01-19, 04:09 PM
tgrech tgrech is offline
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In the UK the 460 technically launched at the same RRP as the 660/760 iirc, slightly more than the 560 and considerably more than the 960 which was abnormally cheap, only less than the 1060/2060 really, but the 1050Ti was the true 960 successor imo with how Pascal cards were repositioned. That's not regarding the fact £199 in 2010 in £250+ in todays money.

Quote:
332 mm²

A 2060 is 445 mm²

So technically when it comes to materials used it's not that much bigger (about 25%).
It's a fair bit more complex than that, larger dies don't just use more material but also waste more of the wafer(Cutting rectangles to a circle), for 332 vs 445 mm^2 (And you can find estimations for yourself using various wafer calculation tools) you'd expect to get around 50% more chips per wafer for 332 if other factors were equal, and you'd have a higher chance those dies were usable and had a higher %age enabled, but of course without yield numbers and such these are mostly academic comparisons.
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  #17  
Old 14-01-19, 04:20 PM
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Its a terrible buy at anything over 300 IMHO and if you add asus tax your looking at 145 on top of that
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  #18  
Old 14-01-19, 08:49 PM
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AngryGoldfish AngryGoldfish is offline
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Not sure how this can be classed as improved price/performance.
It is no longer in the mid range price point
660 $230
760 $250
960 $200
1060 $250
2060 $350
Far from being a bargain IMHO paying a whopping $100 on top for the same tier is price gouging
Because the RTX 2060 performs on par with a GTX 1080 but is cheaper. That's not something you can say in the rest of the stack. I'm not comparing 2060 to 1060/960/760/etc, I'm comparing the 2060 to its closest performing card.

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Originally Posted by looz View Post
Well trades blows with Vega 64 in performance, has better price to performance ratio and consumes way less power. Actually it's cheaper than 56. Not sure you should get hung up on the branding of the card.
It also has better video encoding chip. Then there's support for DXR, DLSS and VRS, which may or may not be useful in the future. Vega's already functioning at full potential.
Agreed. This obsession with a naming scheme is ridiculous. The RTX 2060 is a significantly bigger die than all other X60/XX60 cards, it uses brand-new memory, and has features that likely took a huge amount of R&D to develop. Add that to a total lack of competition and it makes perfect sense to price the 2060 the way it is. Do I like it? No, but it makes sense.
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  #19  
Old 14-01-19, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgrech View Post
In the UK the 460 technically launched at the same RRP as the 660/760 iirc, slightly more than the 560 and considerably more than the 960 which was abnormally cheap, only less than the 1060/2060 really, but the 1050Ti was the true 960 successor imo with how Pascal cards were repositioned. That's not regarding the fact £199 in 2010 in £250+ in todays money.



It's a fair bit more complex than that, larger dies don't just use more material but also waste more of the wafer(Cutting rectangles to a circle), for 332 vs 445 mm^2 (And you can find estimations for yourself using various wafer calculation tools) you'd expect to get around 50% more chips per wafer for 332 if other factors were equal, and you'd have a higher chance those dies were usable and had a higher %age enabled, but of course without yield numbers and such these are mostly academic comparisons.
I know how silicon wafers are sliced man.

All of this debate and confusion.... The 2060 costs what it does due to a lack of competition from AMD. It really is as simple as that. People can try and explain it away by comparing it to other ludicrously priced cards but it doesn't get us around the facts.

The only card that AMD have that competes with the 2060 is the Vega 64. Yet, due to the way AMD made it and the HBM? they can't sell it cheap. The 2060 on the other hand costs way less to produce.

Before Ryzen launched every one was saying there was no way it could compete with Intel *or* be affordable. Well guess what, it did compete with Intel and it was 1/3 of the price for the exact same thing. That is, comparing the 5960x which could barely overclock past 4ghz with a 4ghz Ryzen 1700 that could clock up to 4.1ghz. They were practically identical in every regard, only the AMD part had more lanes and ran considerably cooler.

If what people are saying is true then AMD would not have made statements such as "It is very cheap to produce" and etc.

You can't tell me that Turing cost more than Fermi. At the time Fermi was made it cost Nvidia an absolute *fortune* because it was a kitchen sink. Heck, so was the GTX 280, however the RRP for the 280 was £320 or less.

The Radeon 5870 launched at around £300. The 5850 launched at £230 or so. Then all of a sudden no response from Nvidia and those prices soared.

Then Nvidia come along with their £450 GTX 480 and every one laughs. They then come along with their £450 or so GTX 580 and people go nuts, and from there on they wised up. That was when they cut down the die massively with Kepler, and then charged a king's ransom for the actual big die (Titan moniker, GTX 780 etc).

Since then they have been probing (and controlling) the market and steadily increasing their prices to beyond joke levels. What comes in Turing? I expect that. I just don't expect it at these absolutely ridiculous prices. IDK why people who are so intelligent, and know as much about computers as they do try and come up with these BS explanations as to why Nvidia are being greedy. Nobody could see the wood for the trees with Intel then all of a sudden Ryzen happens and they all go "Oh yeah, Bloody rip off Intel !".

It makes me laugh. People should just see facts.
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  #20  
Old 14-01-19, 09:57 PM
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I think people do see the facts. I think they don't care enough. But it's like anything in society. People don't care if their favourite popstar is a horrible person. People don't care if their attachment to meat destroys the earth. People don't care if their kids are bullies. As long as they get what they want, that's it. Obviously that's a sweeping generalisation, but it's kinda true.
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