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  #351  
Old 22-03-19, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by AlienALX View Post
I love how Brexit has shown just how undemocratic we are. Seriously, why can no one accept that we voted fair and square?

Personally I couldn't give a crap what we do. No doubt I will get screwed either way.

I've never seen people behave like this though. It's like we unleashed a pack of wild animals by voting out (I didn't vote FWIW, never have, they're all scum in govt). Seriously I've never seen so much sand, in so many vaginas, ever.
There was no fair and square about it, the whole campaign was fuelled by lies and hatred and that is why people refuse to accept it.

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  #352  
Old 22-03-19, 10:03 AM
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There was no fair and square about it, the whole campaign was fuelled by lies and hatred and that is why people refuse to accept it.

Yeah I'm still wondering when this magical mystery 350 Million quid a week is going to materialize for the NHS, Plus people wanting European workers out i.e Polish, Czech etc... is odd considering these people do A LOT of manual labour AND they aren't the ones causing trouble like acid attacks, Knife attacks etc... It's other more "religious" people from further east.

Also as I do not have British citizenship, Apparently I'm too white and not eligible, Not even kidding the woman at the passport office said that to my face, It means I could get deported to the Republic of Ireland.
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  #353  
Old 22-03-19, 11:01 AM
tgrech tgrech is offline
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To be fair the Leave campaign was genuinely illegally funded in the end according to the electoral commission.
Also contrary to popular belief most acid attacks in the UK have nothing to do with religion, about 70% are male-on-male and to do with gang wars and stuff, a good portion of that is white-on-white or black-on-black crime, Asian perpetrators/victims are actually the minority, it's the same issue as knife crime imo, just another easy "weapon" for kids to buy.
Knife attacks are a fully home grown problem imo, of course the populations who are predominantly more likely to be working class are also the populations statistically most linked to street crime, but if you look at predominantly white working class areas like here in Salford the problem doesn't go away. Kids I grew up with are doing time for shootings, the victims of said shootings were often close family of other kids I grew up with, the fact is if you cut policing to the point where they're not existent while still criminalising drugs while also cutting social services you end up with a broken generation dependant on quick fixes to get by and a large black market economy to serve them, then you end up with empire-like street gangs full of kids who think they're invincible because someone 10 years older than them but far deeper into the sh*t gives them an ounce or two of green to shot for em every week, then they go and get into dumb scraps over street corners and before you know it you've got 3 revenge attacks with collateral damage on your hands with hand grenades getting thrown in front gardens and shotguns at doors and stuff.

The last time I had a blade held to my neck it was a straight mugging (With a cheeky bit of ABH after when they smashed by cheek bone in half after I tried to shout for someone) but I've never been able to hold it against them knowing the environment they've grown up in too well. It's a dog eat dog world and desperate times lead to people doing desperate things for money. The problem is with the system that forced those people to perceive that as a necessary life choice.
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  #354  
Old 22-03-19, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Dicehunter View Post
Yeah I'm still wondering when this magical mystery 350 Million quid a week is going to materialize for the NHS, Plus people wanting European workers out i.e Polish, Czech etc... is odd considering these people do A LOT of manual labour AND they aren't the ones causing trouble like acid attacks, Knife attacks etc... It's other more "religious" people from further east.

Also as I do not have British citizenship, Apparently I'm too white and not eligible, Not even kidding the woman at the passport office said that to my face, It means I could get deported to the Republic of Ireland.
No you wouldn't, you'd be able to apply for settled status. You don't have to be a British citizen to stay in Britain as long as you lived here before 2020.
https://www.gov.uk/settled-status-eu...d-status-means
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  #355  
Old 22-03-19, 01:09 PM
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There was no fair and square about it, the whole campaign was fuelled by lies and hatred and that is why people refuse to accept it.

That applies to every election ever, when has a politician ever kept their promises once elected
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  #356  
Old 22-03-19, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Greenback View Post
That applies to every election ever, when has a politician ever kept their promises once elected
It's a bit different from a broken promise made by politicians when many of the campaign slogans were outright lies anyone could've verified with a bit of Googling.
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  #357  
Old 22-03-19, 01:21 PM
tgrech tgrech is offline
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There are many well respected MPs with impeccable voting histories and a clear principled approach to voting as well as a strong record of representing their constituents that have consistently kept their promises over careers spanning decades, the problem is those kinds of MPs are never nearly cut throat or psychopathic enough to get anywhere near power.

Obviously one exception IMO is Corbyn because he never sought to become party leader and always rejected the idea of having any power himself, he was pushed by other MPs into representing them because there was no one else viable and only accepted the role after the labour membership numbers skyrocketed at the idea of a genuine rebel backbencher MP getting a shot at power. But of course as soon as he openly said he wanted to to take power away from the establishment media & dismantle the Murdoch empire amongst other things the papers started their smear campaigns. It's no coincidence The Sun has "Predicted" every PM in modern history, political apathy means our politics is heavily shaped by a few billionaire media moguls to favour those few media moguls.

It's no coincidence that these same papers that ran anti-semitic smear campaigns against the previous Labour leader Ed Milliband (Despite there being many genuine things you could attack him or) that the British public absolutely lapped up now claim to have been attacking the next one because they care so much about anti-semitism.

Until people actually put some time into assessing their nations political situation, all we'll get from much of the public is loose "hot takes" based on what they're read in the rags, the idea of researching things a little is a bit too far for many.
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  #358  
Old 22-03-19, 01:55 PM
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I just wish there was such a thing as the "No BS Party"

It would be a center right party that strives to do what is best for the country but is also honest with the public and says yup we can do that but then we can't do that because of a little thing called money. It would set its priorities and stick to them.

Problem is telling people that we can't realistically afford the rainbows and unicorns country they envisage at least in our current state doesn't win votes.

In a roundabout way people only vote for lies because the truth is not quite as sexy
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  #359  
Old 22-03-19, 02:02 PM
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The only party with a fully costed manifesto backed by hundreds of economists last election was Labour.

The Tories, who were claiming we had to tighten our belts, shockingly immediately pulled £1Bn out of nowhere to pay off the DUP MPs to give the Tories power. They tell us we can't spend a couple hundred million more on our NHS to save lives and get people back contributing into our economy quicker, but they can pull it out their asses whenever they might lose power?

The idea that a countries economics is as simple as book balancing is a complete myth, no modern economist argues austerity is a way out of economic hardship, all modern examples from other countries shows you need initial investment in services before people can start to contribute to the economy. Dead, homeless, or incarcerated people can't contribute to the economy, we can't solve crime, poverty or sickness while cutting away all the police, social services and NHS staff.

All the things costing our country the most right now including crime rates and skyrocketing NHS costs can be directly linked to the consequences of austerity, of course these things still cost us money before but the complications of these issues are far beyond what they were 10 years ago.

I'm fortunate enough to have close links to a country that follows exactly the opposite line of thinking to the UK over the last decade, a country that embraces democratic socialism with open arms. This is a country that had the strongest growth in the EU through the financial crisis, and has the strongest and fastest growing technology and industrial sectors in the EU, and they're set to have the fastest growing full economy of any EU nation this year. I don't need to guess at which system works better, I've lived in both.

Worth noting, over this time period in which Malta has had an amazing economic transformation, they also were taking in more refugees than any other EU nation by a significant margin, often more than 100 times more than other EU nations around the start of the Arab spring, a nation with a population roughly the size of Leicester. Did it destroy their amazing state funded healthcare system? Or the robust welfare system? Did these refugees milk the public services? No, they continued with the jobs they would have if their country wasn't bombed to sh*t, and contributed to the local economy.

This British fetish for right wing economics is borne entirely out of the idea that everyone just wants to do each other over and will screw each other for whatever they can get. Many British people probably would and do. But most humans are not like this, the idea that selfishness & greed are inevitabilities of human nature is true, but the idea that they're widespread problems with most of the nation and that we should build our economy around it (IE the basis for libertarian capitalism) is something that I think says more about the minds of the proponents of these systems than the minds of most people.
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  #360  
Old 22-03-19, 03:02 PM
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AlienALX AlienALX is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SPS View Post
There was no fair and square about it, the whole campaign was fuelled by lies and hatred and that is why people refuse to accept it.
Well at least now they seem to be aiming their anger in the correct direction. Maybe stop blaming people who were (quite correctly) annoyed and confused and start blaming the Waynes who started this mess.
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