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  #11  
Old 04-07-19, 09:39 AM
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WYP WYP is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartacus View Post
Have they released any pricing specifics yet?
Nothing that we can talk about ATM. We will find out on launch day.

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  #12  
Old 06-07-19, 09:08 PM
Gothmoth Gothmoth is offline
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so the x570 boards come with a stupid chipset cooler (the vast majority).

they offer PCI 4.0 that is probably pretty useless (right now) except for M.2 NVME SSD.
but if you will notice the bump from 3.2GB/s to what 5.5 GB/S? .... is another question.

i sure can benchmark the difference of M.2 in raid and a single 970 evo plus.

but even with my heavy workload i donīt notice a difference.

any idea if the next GPU generation from nvidia or amd will benefit from PCI 4.0?
(not turing or navi.. the next one).


the x570 mobos are expensive because of the (mostly) better VRM and PCB designs and the chipset cost.

but what will be the actual benefit over a good x470 board like the crosshair hero II?
will it be worth the extra money.

i donīt skimp on mainboards. i own two zenith extrem.

but this chipset fan really makes me think about buying a x470 and save a few euro.
my experience with chipset fans is a disaster.


i really hope some website will do an IN DEPTH performance comparisation between the best X470 and best x570 boards. and i mean with applications not just games.
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  #13  
Old 06-07-19, 11:05 PM
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Avet Avet is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gothmoth View Post
so the x570 boards come with a stupid chipset cooler (the vast majority).

they offer PCI 4.0 that is probably pretty useless (right now) except for M.2 NVME SSD.
but if you will notice the bump from 3.2GB/s to what 5.5 GB/S? .... is another question.

i sure can benchmark the difference of M.2 in raid and a single 970 evo plus.

but even with my heavy workload i donīt notice a difference.

any idea if the next GPU generation from nvidia or amd will benefit from PCI 4.0?
(not turing or navi.. the next one).


the x570 mobos are expensive because of the (mostly) better VRM and PCB designs and the chipset cost.

but what will be the actual benefit over a good x470 board like the crosshair hero II?
will it be worth the extra money.

i donīt skimp on mainboards. i own two zenith extrem.

but this chipset fan really makes me think about buying a x470 and save a few euro.
my experience with chipset fans is a disaster.


i really hope some website will do an IN DEPTH performance comparisation between the best X470 and best x570 boards. and i mean with applications not just games.
Next time please number your questions when you post them in bulk. It is easier to reference answers.

It is easier for manufacturers to use previous designs rather than redesign the whole thing from grounds up. That is why you see heat pipes only on more expensive motherboards. I think that chipset coolers are more of an insurance policy for low airflow cases.

No the PCIe 4.0 isn't useless. It is not about the maximum of megabytes that it will achieve. It is about transfers per second or transfers per cycle. With PCIe 4.0 you can transfer 2x more data that in a single cycle than on PCIe 3.0. You could also achieve this by rasing the clock. But have you tried to run your BCLK to 200? I am pretty sure your motherboard, and other components won't like that. Benefits are clear it is just that components need to be made to use them.

You can't feel the difference between NVME RAID 0 and single drive because you are not using it properly. To utilize RAID 0 benefits you must work with huge files (4k RAW video). What most people think is that RAID 0 doubles your drive speeds but it actually doesn't. It does in a way, but only for sequential reads and writes with a large queue depths (working with big files). For an actual useful performance like C drive on Windows, loading programs, and general use where most of the load consists of random reads/writes and dealing with small files it is worse than a single drive. Just look at Tom's 4x NVME RAID 0 test. That is because random performance in low queue depts gets worse on drives in RAID. Actual snappiness isn't dependant on maximum drive speed. IOPS, random performance in low queue depth are factors that determine "the feel" of drive speed. 905p has 2200 MB/S max speed, but it obliterates "faster" 3000+ drives in load times, boot times, etc. Again, look at Tom's drive review.

Cards no users yes. Today only 2080 Ti can saturate PCIe x8 slot. Barely. But it means that you can have only a GPU connected to your PCIe slots and use all the lanes. If you want to use multiple cards you need to step up to HEDT platform. With PCIe 4.0 your GPU will use only half lanes, and you can have the rest filled with other devices (capture card, thunderbolt, sound card, more NVME drives, etc...) without going to much more expensive HEDT platform. Z390 actually has only 4 PCIe 3 lanes, not 24 that Intel sells to people. That is the speed of DMI 3.0 link between the CPU and PCH. Put one NVME drive on Z390 and you basically clogged it up (including other traffic between CPU, and PCH - USB, sound, network, other HDDs). If you "translate" PCIe 4.0 lanes on X570 in terms of available bandwidth you get 48 lanes of PCIe 3.0 bandwidth. That is now much Intel X299 has (44 CPU, and 4 PCH). You cannot just plug in PCIe 3.0 cards on PCIe 4.0 and expect to use all that bandwidth. You need PCIe 4.0 devices. Instead of having a 10 Gb ethernet card that takes 4 PCIe lanes, you will have one that takes 2.

X570 boards are more expensive because PCB is of higher quality to retain signal integrity needed for PCIe 4.0. Will there be significant improvements over x470 i think yes. New CPUs will work fine on old boards, but I think there will be some difference to X570. But I may be wrong. We need to see the tests. Don't buy anything until you see the tests. And search multiple sources for information.

Edit: With completely new technologies simethig has to come out first and the rest needs to catch up. Take RTX cards for example. Majority if people hated them. There were few (me included) who actually saw the real potential of this technology. I bet you that every single one of those who hated RTX cards will be stomped how good Cyberpunk will look. And every single one of them will rush out to bug an RTX card. And they will praze and worship Ray Tracing. But that what they will cherish and love wouldn't exist without RTX cards release. It is the same with PCIe 4. It has amazing potential but the rest of the industry needs to catch-up. Will you be an early adopter it is your choice. But the potential is there.
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  #14  
Old 07-07-19, 12:12 AM
Gothmoth Gothmoth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avet View Post
Next time please number your questions when you post them in bulk. It is easier to reference answers.

it is called rhetoric questions... to most i have the answer.


Quote:
No the PCIe 4.0 isn't useless. It is not about the maximum of megabytes that it will achieve. It is about transfers per second or transfers per cycle. With PCIe 4.0 you can transfer 2x more data that in a single cycle than on PCIe 3.0..
and that is not about megabytes per seconds? aha...


Quote:
You can't feel the difference between NVME RAID 0 and single drive because you are not using it properly. To utilize RAID 0 benefits you must work with huge files (4k RAW video).
exactly.... you need a very specific type of workload.
you did not get the intention of what i wrote but yes we agree.

i have my two TR running under full load sometimes for days.
but having a single evo 970 or two in raid 0 will gain me next to nothing.

because there is not enough data to be transfered that a singe 970 evo would be a bottleneck.

PCI 4.0 NVME drives will not have some of the raided SSD shortcomings.
but gamers will most likely not notice any benefits from PCI 4.0 NVME drives either.

because for them the current drives are not a bottleneck.
so does x570 makes sense just for using PCI 4.0 NVME SSDīs?

the mass is today so blinded by PR and marketing. everything new is great. a must have.
there are only a few critical voice or even voices who ask if it makes sense.

PCI 4.0 will make sense (well how long the lifespan will be is questionable).
no question about that. but does it make sense now?


Quote:
There were few (me included) who actually saw the real potential of this technology.
as a guy who works with 3d applications i see the potential of raytracing trust me.

i was all hyped for larrabee... if you know what i am speaking about.

point is.
RTX titles are rare and the current cards (gen 1) are too slow to be really useful.
i rather wait and spend my money on RTX when cards are fast enough and titles make good use of it.


Quote:
I bet you that every single one of those who hated RTX cards will be stomped how good Cyberpunk will look.
and a lot of these people will be happy that they i did not buy the overpriced RTX cards earlier.

now they get the super refresh for the same money.

and they missed what? metro and battlefield with partial RTX implementation.




Quote:
It is the same with PCIe 4. It has amazing potential but the rest of the industry needs to catch-up. Will you be an early adopter it is your choice. But the potential is there.
well yes. the potential was also there for PCI when we had AGP.
i think everyone agrees.

the point i try to get across is.... does it makes sense to be an early adopter?
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  #15  
Old 07-07-19, 11:11 AM
tgrech tgrech is offline
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The first consumer PCIe4 GPU releases today, same as the first PCIe4 CPU/platform (Navi), no chicken and egg scenario here. Only question is whether you'll use it, which would take either some really unique workloads, or for you to be trying to cram two or three of them into this consumer platform, or cramming them in alongside some other PCIe devices. Same with NVMe drives, main benefit for now would be if you wanted a fair few of them or to cram them alongside a couple of GPUs. For a single GPU and twin NVMe system, then yeah it's probably too early to actively jump onto PCIe4 if you're not upgrading anyway, but the point here is that a motherboard is one of those things most people won't upgrade for 5+ years, so you kinda want it to be future proof if you're not someone who jumps on every new platform.
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  #16  
Old 07-07-19, 06:33 PM
Gothmoth Gothmoth is offline
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ok after seeing toms review i ordered a crosshair vii today to replace my last intel system.


pretty much what i thought...
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  #17  
Old 07-07-19, 07:24 PM
Bartacus Bartacus is offline
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Pricing info landed here, they sure aren't cheap. CH7 was $340CDN, CH8 is $500. But that's no surprise. The 12 core is $669. So around $1200 for the combo, not including memory. I'm still trying to figure out if my older B-die kits can simply be run at higher speeds and looser timings, or am I going to have to buy a kit with a higher DOCP profile for ideal performance.
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  #18  
Old 09-07-19, 03:04 PM
ozegamer ozegamer is offline
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M.2

That chipset heat spreader shroud/armour thingamajig covering the M.2 slots might have me a little worried with clearance issues.
The only M.2 drives I have used are the Samsung 960 pro and older Samsung 950 pro one before that, None have had heatsinks.

I was looking at the new Corsair Force Series MP600 M.2 which already has a heat sink on it.
Do you think it will fit on this motherboard without removing heatsink on the M.2 drive if that's even possible?
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  #19  
Old 13-07-19, 06:38 PM
robbiec robbiec is offline
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You'll need to remove the heat sink on either the board or the card. Cards are normally held on with a couple of clips and a thermal pad.
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  #20  
Old 14-07-19, 03:15 PM
ozegamer ozegamer is offline
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Hmm, That's a shame.
Thank you for replying.
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