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  #21  
Old 19-05-20, 11:25 PM
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The potential for something going wrong with this is pretty high IMO.
To provide an irreversible BIOS 'upgrade' path presents a host of problems.
The largest being, what if they miss a crippling bug?
The burden of validating the BIOS and AGESA releases for B450/X470 just became worse.

There are ways around a bad BIOS flash on some boards. I have a Gigabyte 890FXA that a bad bios was released for which stopped the system from posting. The only solution was to short some pins on the BIOS chip to erase it. This worked because the board had dual BIOS which saw the main chip was empty and re flashed it with the default image stored on the second BIOS chip. Not exactly a smooth process.

I think AMD might have made this intentionally unappealing so people are less inclined to do it. But can still point to the solution and say 'see we do listen to you'.

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  #22  
Old 20-05-20, 12:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kleptobot View Post
The potential for something going wrong with this is pretty high IMO.
To provide an irreversible BIOS 'upgrade' path presents a host of problems.
The largest being, what if they miss a crippling bug?
The burden of validating the BIOS and AGESA releases for B450/X470 just became worse.

There are ways around a bad BIOS flash on some boards. I have a Gigabyte 890FXA that a bad bios was released for which stopped the system from posting. The only solution was to short some pins on the BIOS chip to erase it. This worked because the board had dual BIOS which saw the main chip was empty and re flashed it with the default image stored on the second BIOS chip. Not exactly a smooth process.

I think AMD might have made this intentionally unappealing so people are less inclined to do it. But can still point to the solution and say 'see we do listen to you'.
It just sounds more to me like they are trying to put off noobs. That's all. Which is what would case serious RMA issues, providing the board was still under warranty.

They had no choice. People can take a victory from this but IMO? MSI would have been sued out of existence if they had not done this.

I don't know why MSI made those claims, but I suppose in future they will be more careful about "1up"ing other companies. It's a dangerous game.

Like I said, I would expect this if I bought an X470 board. I will tell you why, too. When X570 launched they were stupid expensive, not much more capable than X470 and had the "OMG FAN OF DOOOOUM" so many didn't want them. X470 are quite expensive in AMD land, so I would expect priority on those.

The fact they are even doing B450? again could come down to MSI stupidly making their "Max board" that would support until 2021. That was a really stupid thing to do.
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  #23  
Old 20-05-20, 12:57 AM
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GN's Q&A with AMD.

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  #24  
Old 20-05-20, 07:23 AM
NeverBackDown NeverBackDown is offline
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Originally Posted by Dicehunter View Post
Not missing any point, If you were to do your scenario then you'd just get a budget Zen 3 chip for your kid which will exist by the end of the year when they release and be even cheaper when Zen 4 rolls around next year which will be on a new socket anyway, It's a non issue.

People just love to moan.
No you completely did. As kelpto mentioned above as a valid reason.

In addition to what I said you didn't even read it as you didn't respond to it. You went off on something else.

Since it seems you cannot follow I'll repeat it.

AMD blame motherboard vendors for not having enough space to store all the CPUs. AMD wanted to support a socket for 4 years. They had a roadmap long ago and knew which processors would need to be supported. However AMD CPUs cannot even read a 32Mb ROM so why would any vendor add costs to a motherboard that'll never even get used? So AMD shifting blame is laughable and they are to blame for the awful foresight. They created this situation and started the whole mess.

This situation also means motherboards are now at risk of being bricked by unknowledgeable users. In fact some users may feel entirely uncomfortable with this that they feel forced to just buy a whole brand new motherboard after being promised their current one would be supported through 2020 CPUs. Which means they will feel cheated and blame AMD as they should.

You seem to forget the vast and overwhelming majority of PC players are definitely not tech savvy.

While I agree in the current situation AMD has done the best possible outcome it doesn't give them any excuse as to how they ended up here and they should be held to a higher standard than this if they are going to use their awful marketing to point out flaws in other companies. Especially since AMD planned long long ago how long AM4 would be supported. Even before Zen launched they knew..

If you call that a "nervous online breakdown" then so be it as that's a laughable conclusion to the situation AMD created.

If this happened again on the next socket, you would have a totally different opinion. Because AMD should know better for next time. I just hope they learn from their mistakes.
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  #25  
Old 20-05-20, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by NeverBackDown View Post
No you completely did. As kelpto mentioned above as a valid reason.

In addition to what I said you didn't even read it as you didn't respond to it. You went off on something else.

Since it seems you cannot follow I'll repeat it.

AMD blame motherboard vendors for not having enough space to store all the CPUs. AMD wanted to support a socket for 4 years. They had a roadmap long ago and knew which processors would need to be supported. However AMD CPUs cannot even read a 32Mb ROM so why would any vendor add costs to a motherboard that'll never even get used? So AMD shifting blame is laughable and they are to blame for the awful foresight. They created this situation and started the whole mess.

This situation also means motherboards are now at risk of being bricked by unknowledgeable users. In fact some users may feel entirely uncomfortable with this that they feel forced to just buy a whole brand new motherboard after being promised their current one would be supported through 2020 CPUs. Which means they will feel cheated and blame AMD as they should.

You seem to forget the vast and overwhelming majority of PC players are definitely not tech savvy.

While I agree in the current situation AMD has done the best possible outcome it doesn't give them any excuse as to how they ended up here and they should be held to a higher standard than this if they are going to use their awful marketing to point out flaws in other companies. Especially since AMD planned long long ago how long AM4 would be supported. Even before Zen launched they knew..

If you call that a "nervous online breakdown" then so be it as that's a laughable conclusion to the situation AMD created.

If this happened again on the next socket, you would have a totally different opinion. Because AMD should know better for next time. I just hope they learn from their mistakes.

Whatever bud, Don't really care to have yet more of your beloved multi page arguments over something that is utterly meaningless
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  #26  
Old 20-05-20, 01:12 PM
tgrech tgrech is offline
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Yeah tbh I haven't heard anyone this actually affects complain about this, it's great that AMD has decided to invest the time and effort to work around the issues found on these cheaper 16MB boards, outlined the technical limitations in detail and found the best compromise for us.
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  #27  
Old 20-05-20, 04:59 PM
NeverBackDown NeverBackDown is offline
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Originally Posted by Dicehunter View Post
Whatever bud, Don't really care to have yet more of your beloved multi page arguments over something that is utterly meaningless
Considering you initiated our conversation and then could no longer found a suitable answer I find this laughable. You were the only person arguing against my point of AMD should be held to a higher standard.
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  #28  
Old 20-05-20, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by NeverBackDown View Post
Considering you initiated our conversation and then could no longer found a suitable answer I find this laughable. You were the only person arguing against my point of AMD should be held to a higher standard.
Why exactly? AMD has always been the company with fewer artificial limitations, with which there will be quite few asterisks - as it turns out, tech is rather complicated.
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  #29  
Old 20-05-20, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by NeverBackDown View Post
Considering you initiated our conversation and then could no longer found a suitable answer I find this laughable. You were the only person arguing against my point of AMD should be held to a higher standard.

No I've just grown bored of your argumentative attitude on this forum, Every comment is a fight and telling people they are wrong, You've always got to have the last word no matter what, It's tiresome, And on that note I'm out for a while.
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  #30  
Old 20-05-20, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Dicehunter View Post
No I've just grown bored of your argumentative attitude on this forum, Every comment is a fight and telling people they are wrong, You've always got to have the last word no matter what, It's tiresome, And on that note I'm out for a while.

Agrees with this!
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