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  #11  
Old 02-01-19, 07:05 AM
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Dicehunter Dicehunter is offline
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Originally Posted by NeverBackDown View Post
I don't believe the issue is Ray Tracing itself. It's just poor execution, absurdly high prices, lack of software, and the advertised software that actually launched was poor.

Ray Tracing is the future. To argue it's useless and in some cases I've seen dumb because it's not worth the R&D and higher consumer prices because of said R&D is just beyond naive. I blame the issues on Nvidia as a company but not product
I think ray tracing is a step in the right direction and the tech behind it is brilliant but it is not the future in terms of all encompassing photo realistic graphics, Path tracing is more indepth compared to ray tracing but I think that will come quite a few years after ray tracing as it requires a bit more compute power than RT

For ray tracing to really take off it needs to be put into more peoples hands and the current pricing structure Nvidia has is absurd as the 2080 Ti is really the only card to get if you want to experience RT in Shadow of the Tomb Raider, Battlefield 5 and the few demos/benchmarks floating around with any type of decent performance, Anything less and the performance is dire, RT will remain a niche little toggle in the graphics menu just like Physx until Nvidia put the massive bag of weed down and bring prices back down to Earth and/or AMD/Intel bring out an alternative to the 2080 Ti that doesn't cost north of 1 grand.

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  #12  
Old 02-01-19, 08:17 AM
Warchild Warchild is offline
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All new tech is put out of reach of the average consumer.

Fibre optic cabling... its mainstream now. How hard was it to get that in your home years ago?

Oculus rift: opened the prospect of VR at an extortionate price. Look where we are now. Its £300 for the whole bundle, and fierce competition from all brands

So yeah I agree, that RT needs to be more accessible for all, but new tech has always been absurd in price. I also think its hard for us to judge whether if its the future of gaming given that probably only 1% of us on this forum understand it fully and the direction it will send us. As SPS says... too many armchair developers on forums.
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  #13  
Old 02-01-19, 08:24 AM
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Dicehunter Dicehunter is offline
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Originally Posted by Warchild View Post
All new tech is put out of reach of the average consumer.

Fibre optic cabling... its mainstream now. How hard was it to get that in your home years ago?

Oculus rift: opened the prospect of VR at an extortionate price. Look where we are now. Its £300 for the whole bundle, and fierce competition from all brands

So yeah I agree, that RT needs to be more accessible for all, but new tech has always been absurd in price. I also think its hard for us to judge whether if its the future of gaming given that probably only 1% of us on this forum understand it fully and the direction it will send us. As SPS says... too many armchair developers on forums.
I'm no dev but I am a lover of pretty graphics and my very very very basic understanding is that ray tracing for the moment is really only good for reflective materials like glass, Various polished bits of rock like marble, Plastics, Metal and water as well as more accurate shadows and lighting in general but not actual solid objects like dirt, Rock, Foliage etc...

I think photogrammetry mixed with RT is a good mix going forward for the time being until RT hardware gets more powerful.
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  #14  
Old 02-01-19, 08:50 AM
Warchild Warchild is offline
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Originally Posted by Dicehunter View Post
I'm no dev but I am a lover of pretty graphics and my very very very basic understanding is that ray tracing for the moment is really only good for reflective materials like glass, Various polished bits of rock like marble, Plastics, Metal and water as well as more accurate shadows and lighting in general but not actual solid objects like dirt, Rock, Foliage etc...

I think photogrammetry mixed with RT is a good mix going forward for the time being until RT hardware gets more powerful.
Sorry Dice, the dig at "armchair developers" wasn't aimed at you in the slightest. More of a general comment about some who boldly claim facts they know very little about aside from reading articles on reviews.
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  #15  
Old 02-01-19, 09:09 AM
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Dicehunter Dicehunter is offline
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Originally Posted by Warchild View Post
Sorry Dice, the dig at "armchair developers" wasn't aimed at you in the slightest. More of a general comment about some who boldly claim facts they know very little about aside from reading articles on reviews.

No worries bud I was just putting my 2 cents in from a laymans perspective
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  #16  
Old 02-01-19, 10:00 AM
Warchild Warchild is offline
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Originally Posted by Dicehunter View Post
No worries bud I was just putting my 2 cents in from a laymans perspective
Personally I am all about immersion over graphics although they do come hand in hand. Such as the direction of VR where we push more towards higher resolutions. It's almost like we have gone back in time in terms of pushing graphics resolutions all over again, except now its a headset instead of a screen.

Really liking the looks of the Pimax 5k+. Trying to find ways to import it to Norway without paying scandulous prices.

Ray tracing in VR, with Headsets supported by multiple GPU at 1440p resolutions per eye at 60fps.... when we get there, the realism begins.

I am with you though. I want to start seeing photo realistic detail. Nvidia has already done it with their deep learning AI by means of a Demo 2 years ago, but it hasn't transitioned to the consumer... yet.
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  #17  
Old 06-01-19, 01:24 PM
tgrech tgrech is offline
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As I've said before, the up-front cost of processor silicon is dependant primarily on the die size of that silicon and the impact it has on chips per wafer and yield of perfect/usable chips. If you compare the prices & die sizes of RTX cards, they're completely in line with Pascal/GTX. You can't really claim one is a rip off and the other isn't, one just has better traditional shader performance per mm^2(Because the extra die space added isn't for traditional shader perf) and therefore per unit cost. And that's before you get into things like increased R&D costs and developer support and the like, which is certainly higher than it was under Pascal.

The true value of RTX cards and every mm^2 they poses can't be assessed until software can use said die space, but no software could use it well until someone had something to test said software on.

A lot of people seemed to expect price drops with Turing, but that doesn't really make sense when it's still using more or less the same process node as Pascal, the cost per mm^2 was always going to remain constant really, especially when the cost of developing each mm^2 (R&D for the new units) apparently risen significantly.

The problem of whether it should be released when it was when there was an inherent cost is just the old chicken and egg problem, hardware always has to significantly predate efficient/well optimised software and that's been the case with everything from CPU ISA's to games consoles.

Also slightly different topic, but path tracing has limited application in games *because* it's so realistic, as it's meant to be an implementation of the monte carlo method it's not really usable for any game with any kind of unique artistic style. If pure realism was all a developer wanted then sure, but that's actually quite rare in gaming beyong simulators and not just because of hardware limitations. RTX cards can perform hardware accelerated path tracing in non-realtime scenarios though.
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