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  #11  
Old 08-10-19, 05:59 AM
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Kaapstad Kaapstad is offline
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Ampere is going to be a disappointment.

NVidia and the other GPU vendors (AMD & Intel) need to change the way cards are made as going to 7nm is approaching a dead end.

Yes Ampere will probably be faster than Turing but it is not enough, Ray Tracing will still be a struggle as it is now even on an RTX Titan SLI setup. NVidia will never be able to improve RT enough by relying on node shrinks after 7nm and need to find other ways of incorporating it on graphics cards like having a separate chip for it.

On the subject of separate chips we are getting to the point where vendors need to start using several smaller chips on a card rather than one huge one like with Turing and Volta to increase performance and make cooling easier.

Ampere is going to be a very expensive dead end for NVidia (and us) if it is more of the same (Turing) on a smaller node.

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  #12  
Old 08-10-19, 11:33 AM
tgrech tgrech is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaapstad View Post
Ampere is going to be a disappointment.

NVidia and the other GPU vendors (AMD & Intel) need to change the way cards are made as going to 7nm is approaching a dead end.
EUV is not going to be a dead end for quite a while now and these node shrinks should be pretty useful for now, Ampere should be a huge node step as it's going from an update of a 20nm process to a true EUV 7nm node.

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Yes Ampere will probably be faster than Turing but it is not enough, Ray Tracing will still be a struggle as it is now even on an RTX Titan SLI setup.
You can't use any realtime raytracing games in SLI (DXR is a DX12 extension) so that might explains why SLI Titans struggle with it lol.

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NVidia will never be able to improve RT enough by relying on node shrinks after 7nm and need to find other ways of incorporating it on graphics cards like having a separate chip for it.
We know NVidia's designs for the RT units were never going to stand still, there's huge amounts of low hanging fruit architecture wise to improve the current raytracing acceleration units, and lots of areas of the raytracing pieline that we havn't even begun to "hardware accelerate" with specific units, I wouldn't be surprised at all if we see a >60% rise in top end RT performance. This isn't rasterisation where the industry has spent 4 decades and billioons of £'s of development to get to a stage where progress is meagre, progress in RT will absolutely put traditional shader performance gains to shame from a layman's respective. It would therefore indeed be incredibly dissapointing if Ampere was merely a shrink, but NVidias track record doesn't imply it will be.

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On the subject of separate chips we are getting to the point where vendors need to start using several smaller chips on a card rather than one huge one like with Turing and Volta to increase performance and make cooling easier.

Ampere is going to be a very expensive dead end for NVidia (and us) if it is more of the same (Turing) on a smaller node.
It's coming, definitely coming, you can rest assured that as soon as MCM GPUs are viable for mass production, they will be being mass produced, all three companies are throwing spades at this side of things(Basically the issue is creating interconnects/fabric/interposers with enough bandwidth that don't have like a million little pins/bumps/points you need to get perfectly alligned).
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  #13  
Old 08-10-19, 02:56 PM
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Kaapstad Kaapstad is offline
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Originally Posted by tgrech View Post
You can't use any realtime raytracing games in SLI (DXR is a DX12 extension) so that might explains why SLI Titans struggle with it lol.
Really

Single RTX Titan stock SOTTR








SLI RTX Titans stock SOTTR







I think the above scaling is excellent when using DX12 and Ray Tracing.
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  #14  
Old 08-10-19, 04:58 PM
tgrech tgrech is offline
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Well I'm delightfully corrected that there is a game that finally uses the AFR libraries for DX12 mGPU support though of course this isn't through the SLI system software wise and it's still the case that any game that relies on traditional SLI(Still the vast majority of games that has any SLI support) holds said limitations.
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  #15  
Old 09-10-19, 04:04 PM
Warchild Warchild is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgrech View Post
Well I'm delightfully corrected that there is a game that finally uses the AFR libraries for DX12 mGPU support though of course this isn't through the SLI system software wise and it's still the case that any game that relies on traditional SLI(Still the vast majority of games that has any SLI support) holds said limitations.
Your talking with a guy who has arguably every Nvidia gpu in almost every possible configuration/setup. If he says SLI works. It usually does
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  #16  
Old 09-10-19, 05:24 PM
tgrech tgrech is offline
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The confusion is regarding my use of "SLI" to refer to the technology and his use of "SLI" to refer to having two NVidia cards in the system, my original statement is still correct using the stricter definition of "SLI".
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  #17  
Old 09-10-19, 06:23 PM
NeverBackDown NeverBackDown is offline
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Originally Posted by tgrech View Post
The confusion is regarding my use of "SLI" to refer to the technology and his use of "SLI" to refer to having two NVidia cards in the system, my original statement is still correct using the stricter definition of "SLI".
You're just trying to change your argument to make it seem like you are still correct.

"SLI is a multi-GPU (Graphics Processing Unit) scaling engine, essentially a method of using more than one graphics card to boost in-game performance by up to +100% per additional GPU. The principle is beautifully simple, and it is equally simple to use because the technology is neatly contained within all modern GeForce graphics drivers and many GeForce GPUs."

Directly from Nvidia's site.
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  #18  
Old 09-10-19, 06:33 PM
tgrech tgrech is offline
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Originally Posted by NeverBackDown View Post
You're just trying to change your argument to make it seem like you are still correct.

"SLI is a multi-GPU (Graphics Processing Unit) scaling engine, essentially a method of using more than one graphics card to boost in-game performance by up to +100% per additional GPU. The principle is beautifully simple, and it is equally simple to use because the technology is neatly contained within all modern GeForce graphics drivers and many GeForce GPUs."

Directly from Nvidia's site.
Nah man it was previous obvious that when I said SLI doesn't work in DX12, I meant SLI doesn't work in DX12, not multi-GPU doesn't work in DX12, we all know there are rare examples like Civ and stuff. That scaling engine in your quote isn't used for DX12 multi-GPU modes, thus reinforcing what I was already saying, the driver SLI mechanism it is referring to is bypassed.
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  #19  
Old 09-10-19, 06:37 PM
NeverBackDown NeverBackDown is offline
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You are contradicting yourself. You cannot definitely say SLI doesn't work in DX12 to then say there are examples of it working.

SLI and Crossfire do work, clearly. There are more options and Devs are not limited to traditional SLI/Crossfire. You can still use non-AFR techniques to use it even in DX11.
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  #20  
Old 09-10-19, 06:38 PM
tgrech tgrech is offline
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At no point have I ever said SLI works in DX12, just that multi-GPU systems can work in DX12. Some people call two NVidia cards in one system "SLI" as shorthand slang, which is perfectly acceptable I guess, but clearly not what I was referring to. The drivers are bypassed completely in any multi-GPU mode in DX12, no SLI or CrossfireX mechanisms.
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