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  #11  
Old 22-08-17, 11:35 PM
NeverBackDown NeverBackDown is online now
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Originally Posted by Thelosouvlakia View Post
AMD has started designing things without power consumption in mind. If you stick a waterblock on it and touch up the bios so the max power draw is much higher you would get amazing results, however that's not the point, it basically got raped by the nvidia cards.
Also about that pricing scheme... Why did you do that AMD?!?
Btw I think that the leaders of the RADEON technologies haven't changed in YEARS, I think since cgn 1.0
Pretty naive to say honestly. Polaris was a massive step towards lower power consumption. It's not that they don't care, it's just they are so far behind in R&D for there GPU development they cannot compete.

Besides if they didn't care, then explain why Zen is so damn efficient to the point it is extremely close to intel?

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  #12  
Old 22-08-17, 11:43 PM
gijoe50000 gijoe50000 is offline
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Seems like there's nothing special at all about Vega. It's just not worth splashing out that much money on a new card when you don't know what's ahead (like the 970 memory fiasco).
At least with the Nvidia 10 series we know there's probably no surprises in the future. The Vegas might start dying in a few months, or overheating, the new memory could be dodgy.. etc, we just don't know.
It's just not worth it when Nvidia are cheaper (who would have thought!) and have better power management.

Also, if Vega is hitting ~700W at the wall then a lot of people will need new power supplies too, like 1000W, so as not to run at 100% all the time.
They really need a big price drop to make it worth people's while.
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  #13  
Old 23-08-17, 12:36 AM
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Wraith Wraith is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverBackDown View Post
Besides if they didn't care, then explain why Zen is so damn efficient to the point it is extremely close to intel?
AMD has more in development with CPUs than with GPUs, and it doesn't help that they can't seem to make their mind up on whether or not to have AMD, ATI, Radeon, ATI, Radeon Technologies Group or simply just AMD. It's all a bit confusing.

It's the 290X vs 780/Titan all over again, as Tom said in the video and I can't disagree with the points made it's 2 years too late, too power hungry (doesn't matter about past Polaris announcements or claims of performance per watt it's already failed), too noisy and way too expensive when compared to NVIDIAs offerings. I sincerely hope that AMD do something with the current pricing because as it stands future AIBs are going to sit on shelves gathering dust while team green units continue to fly out.
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  #14  
Old 23-08-17, 12:57 AM
etaXdoa etaXdoa is offline
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got lucky

got lucky... snagged a vega for not much more than a price of a 1070, far less than 1080 prices in Australia. There were three pricing schedules I saw in oz... the odd card by itself, cards listed for $200aud more described but with no mention of games or discounts, and the odd combined bundle of gpu, cpu and motherboard. Always route(buy) for the underdog on price/performance, but this time round with the confusion AMD is lucky to get my dough.
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  #15  
Old 23-08-17, 02:15 AM
Kungfugrip Kungfugrip is offline
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I've been watching this whole thing, the warning signs.

No data just broad generalizations as launch time approached.

Statements about "Raja Koduri was not head of this project" originally for this GPU made. Attempting to absolve of responsibility.

Incredibly late to market.

As launch approached the big thing to show off was "Blind" tests of Gsync vs Freesync with no performance data.

AMD begins releasing data on the next GPU Navi

ALL of the above began to paint a picture of what was to come. Now this pricing debacle. This does not bode well for the market over the next 6-8 months at least. We are right back to Nvidia status quo. I suspect team green will now proceed to refresh pascal, with a die shrink. What this means is they can take there sweet time with Volta. The 56 has some potential as a value part, but this was far from anything remotely looking like the leap frog in performance many hoped for. I have a 980 Strix, I also have a freesync monitor and have been waiting for something not a side grade (And also not a furnace) to take advantage of my display. Honestly, I am tempted to take my money instead and buy a Gsync display, then get a new card later.
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  #16  
Old 23-08-17, 05:03 AM
Linchpin Linchpin is offline
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With Vega AMD has succeeded in making me finally get my wallet out for some overdue big purchases...a G-Sync monitor and a GTX1080.

At this stage I find it hard to trust AMD especially when it comes to anything videocard related, they promise way more than they can deliver and then all you get is a bunch of excuses about being "future proof", by the time their superior future performance kicks in(if it ever even does) I'm already in the market for my next card and don't care anymore.
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  #17  
Old 23-08-17, 05:10 AM
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Excalabur50 Excalabur50 is offline
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Such a massive let down, yes they were overhyped but people were really hoping against hope for a great card, instead we get this over power hungry, over priced POS.
I said it before and I'll say it again they NEVER should have stayed with HBM2 they should have gone with GDDR and released these ages ago
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  #18  
Old 23-08-17, 06:13 AM
NeverBackDown NeverBackDown is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
AMD has more in development with CPUs than with GPUs, and it doesn't help that they can't seem to make their mind up on whether or not to have AMD, ATI, Radeon, ATI, Radeon Technologies Group or simply just AMD. It's all a bit confusing.

It's the 290X vs 780/Titan all over again, as Tom said in the video and I can't disagree with the points made it's 2 years too late, too power hungry (doesn't matter about past Polaris announcements or claims of performance per watt it's already failed), too noisy and way too expensive when compared to NVIDIAs offerings. I sincerely hope that AMD do something with the current pricing because as it stands future AIBs are going to sit on shelves gathering dust while team green units continue to fly out.
This is exactly my point. All the R&D went to Zen as well as the top engineers. So saying AMD has started designing products without a care for power consumption is just false and naive. Zen and Polaris(which is relevant in this argument whether you think or not) are very efficient and MASSIVE steps towards efficiency. Vega however was never going to be. Again lack of money and top talent, in order to keep up with Nvidia(we knew it wouldn't be a 1080ti killer) they had to throw out all the performance they can and it's still only a 1080 challenger. Power consumption considering it's better than a Fury X, is pretty good. However in the face of opposition who is so far away and ahead, it is not good.

I'm not saying Vega is awesome everyone go buy it. However I do think it's just naive to go saying AMD doesn't care about xyz blah blah. They've come a long way and are on the right track. CPU business is boomin' and next up is the GPU side of things. They just need time. They were going bankrupt, Su has turned this company around with time. Few more years and it'll be much better.

I think what AMD need to realize is right now if they think they can't compete with Nvidia in the high end, they need to design a super cheap powerful chip without all that extra unneeded crap(HBM/interposer/etc) and stick with GDDR5 and make something that Nvidia can't beat at a $300 price point and just stick to that market. No sense in playing with the big dogs if you're just a tiny mut. They should take what Nvidia will give them and focus on what matters and just plan ahead. Delay Navi if need be, they need something uber powerful. But they need power consumption to come down. There is no if or butts about it.


My current gripe with AMD is for GPUs, they tend to go ALL OUT on new tech that is to expensive when they don't have the architecture to back it up. Makes there stuff take way to long to release and expensive with low profit margins(terrible way to beat Nvidia) and makes drivers more complex.
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  #19  
Old 23-08-17, 06:26 AM
Linchpin Linchpin is offline
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Or alternatively in a few more years Nvidia will just continue to dominate the GPU market and I wouldn't count my chickens when it comes to the CPU market either. Last time AMD was on top of the CPU world Intel came back with such a vengeance that AMD was irrelevant for a decade and Ryzen still can't match Intel in single thread performance.
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  #20  
Old 23-08-17, 06:44 AM
NeverBackDown NeverBackDown is online now
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Originally Posted by Linchpin View Post
Or alternatively in a few more years Nvidia will just continue to dominate the GPU market and I wouldn't count my chickens when it comes to the CPU market either. Last time AMD was on top of the CPU world Intel came back with such a vengeance that AMD was irrelevant for a decade and Ryzen still can't match Intel in single thread performance.
Nvidia has already dominated for some time. What's the difference?

Las time AMD was on top Intel weren't on the behinds sitting around. This time, they are. It's not all about single threaded performance and consumers ya'know. AMD have entered the HPC market. Nobody give's a monkey's behind about single threaded performance there. It's all about cores and sociability. Something which AMD excels at. Beisdes, games are getting more and more multi thread friendly. Which is why the 1800x can keep up or surpass a 7700k even when clock a full 1ghz lower. As time goes on single threaded performance will be less of an issue for AMD. Yeah some things require it and benefit from it, but when both companies start adding more and more cores(core war again) more applications will start using them.
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