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  #11  
Old 08-07-17, 08:34 AM
Radioman Radioman is offline
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Originally Posted by Excalabur50 View Post
I really hate to say this but i think Vega is going to be a nearly DOA card, too little too late by AMD, and only fanboi's or those who have invested already in a high end freesync monitor are going to be happy for this card, those of us who have invested in Nvidia's architecture aren't going to find Vega good enough to warrant changing over IF that was intended.
Such a shame really seeing as their CPU's have advanced so much that they are unable to advance their GPU's a well and TBH I think it's been a big mistake to keep Fafing about with HBM it may be their downfall.
Oh well maybe next time they'll get it right
Your argument is predicated on the idea that beating NVIDIA's top offers in the High-End GPU Market is AMD's only goal. The reality is most GPUs sold are the Mid-Range GPUs like the Polaris RX570s and RX580s. AMD dominates that end of the market and it makes sense for them to prioritize offering those customers an upgrade path. One of the old rules that has held is that it takes 10 times as much effort and 10 times as much resources to cultivate a new customer as opposed to selling to an existing customer. If AMD can produce an RX Vega Card that out performs a an NVIDIA GTX 1080 and prices it below a GTX 1070 ($500 USD) AMD will have overwhelming sales success despite not beating the GTX 1080ti. Remember the store shelves have been barren of GPUs Cards for months and right now there is no end in sight. My guess is the Polaris Cards will return to the shelves by the middle of the 4th Quarter in time for the Holiday Season. With the market being starved the way it has I would be very surprised if RX Vega do NOT fly off the shelves when stock is delivered in earnest at the end of August. Even at the higher price than what Mid-Range GPU Customers have become accustom to paying.

Friday I stopped by a big name distribution house to pick up some electronic parts. I checked out the section that sells GPU cards. The section was barren except for a few 50 to 100 USD Cards. For curiosity I went over and asked the Department Manager if he had any information on the GPU stock situation and when we would see relief. He didn't answer my question directly but said the situation on the shelves did not necessarily reflect what was going on. I inquired further and he told me that most of the stock had been moved to the Stock Room for security reasons. Probing around further I found out RX580s could be had for a price in excess of 400 USD. That is 175% of MSRP. Then it hit me. When you are gouging the customers you don't want to make it public. Exceeding MSRP by that type of margin is no way to ingratiate yourself to your supplier. Nonetheless it appears that people are willing to pay these prices if the seller is making these types of quotes. With that said it would seem obvious that if people are willing to pay those types of prices for Polaris Cards If Vega as priced at 500 USD and is clearly a superior card to Polaris then an extra 100 dollars is nothing to ask.

Yes Josephine AMD could make money hand over fist on RX Vega without ever impinging on NVIDIA's High Roller Clientele !

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  #12  
Old 08-07-17, 09:59 AM
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AlienALX AlienALX is offline
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Then there's the opposing side. Fury X wasn't that bad. However, AMD got it all wrong and tried to market it with the 980Ti (because of the cost of producing it) and it failed miserably. Even Fury with custom cooler was dangerously near Nvidia's pricing to make it not worth having. Pretty much all of the Fury stock sold at the end for cut down prices that actually made it worth buying.

All of this because of HBM.. So what did they do? repeat the same. Another large die, more HBM.

It was the economics that screwed them with Fury.

BTW some guys have been saying that maybe gaming mode disables ECC on the HBM. Which should make the memory operate faster. I would hazard a guess and say if that's the case the memory is more than fast enough even with ECC running not to hinder the gaming performance of the card.
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  #13  
Old 08-07-17, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radioman View Post
Your argument is predicated on the idea that beating NVIDIA's top offers in the High-End GPU Market is AMD's only goal. The reality is most GPUs sold are the Mid-Range GPUs like the Polaris RX570s and RX580s. AMD dominates that end of the market and it makes sense for them to prioritize offering those customers an upgrade path. One of the old rules that has held is that it takes 10 times as much effort and 10 times as much resources to cultivate a new customer as opposed to selling to an existing customer. If AMD can produce an RX Vega Card that out performs a an NVIDIA GTX 1080 and prices it below a GTX 1070 ($500 USD) AMD will have overwhelming sales success despite not beating the GTX 1080ti. Remember the store shelves have been barren of GPUs Cards for months and right now there is no end in sight. My guess is the Polaris Cards will return to the shelves by the middle of the 4th Quarter in time for the Holiday Season. With the market being starved the way it has I would be very surprised if RX Vega do NOT fly off the shelves when stock is delivered in earnest at the end of August. Even at the higher price than what Mid-Range GPU Customers have become accustom to paying. Yesterday I was in a big name distribution house to pick up some electronic parts. I stopped by the section that sells GPU cards. The section was barren except for a few 50 to 100 USD Cards. For curiosity I went over and asked the Department Manager if he had any information on the GPU stock situation and when we would see relief. He didn't answer my question directly but said the situation on the shelves did not necessarily reflect what was going on. I inquired further and he told me that most of the stock had been moved to the stock room for security reasons. Probing around further I found out RX580s could be had for a price in excess of 400 USD. That is 175% of MSRP. Then it hit me. When you are gouging the customers you don't want to make it public. Exceeding MSRP by that type of margin is no way to ingratiate yourself to your supplier. Nonetheless it appears that people are willing to pay these prices if the seller is making these types of quotes. With that said it would seem obvious that if people are willing to pay those types of prices for Polaris Cards If Vega as priced at 500 USD and is clear a superior card to Polaris then an extra 100 dollars is nothing to ask.

Yes Josephine AMD could make money hand over fist on RX Vega without ever impinging on NVIDIA's High Roller Clientele !
Whether you support Nvidia or not people would still want AMD to do well with their cards otherwise Nvidia can keep shafting everyone as they have no direct competition and you can't compare the market ATM as mining is just a temporary blip in sales and don't dictate the true market place, truth is in no matter what competition can only be a good thing for everyone in the PC market
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  #14  
Old 08-07-17, 11:40 AM
KTM_RULZ KTM_RULZ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radioman View Post
Your argument is predicated on the idea that beating NVIDIA's top offers in the High-End GPU Market is AMD's only goal. The reality is most GPUs sold are the Mid-Range GPUs like the Polaris RX570s and RX580s. AMD dominates that end of the market and it makes sense for them to prioritize offering those customers an upgrade path. One of the old rules that has held is that it takes 10 times as much effort and 10 times as much resources to cultivate a new customer as opposed to selling to an existing customer. If AMD can produce an RX Vega Card that out performs a an NVIDIA GTX 1080 and prices it below a GTX 1070 ($500 USD) AMD will have overwhelming sales success despite not beating the GTX 1080ti. Remember the store shelves have been barren of GPUs Cards for months and right now there is no end in sight. My guess is the Polaris Cards will return to the shelves by the middle of the 4th Quarter in time for the Holiday Season. With the market being starved the way it has I would be very surprised if RX Vega do NOT fly off the shelves when stock is delivered in earnest at the end of August. Even at the higher price than what Mid-Range GPU Customers have become accustom to paying. Yesterday I was in a big name distribution house to pick up some electronic parts. I stopped by the section that sells GPU cards. The section was barren except for a few 50 to 100 USD Cards. For curiosity I went over and asked the Department Manager if he had any information on the GPU stock situation and when we would see relief. He didn't answer my question directly but said the situation on the shelves did not necessarily reflect what was going on. I inquired further and he told me that most of the stock had been moved to the stock room for security reasons. Probing around further I found out RX580s could be had for a price in excess of 400 USD. That is 175% of MSRP. Then it hit me. When you are gouging the customers you don't want to make it public. Exceeding MSRP by that type of margin is no way to ingratiate yourself to your supplier. Nonetheless it appears that people are willing to pay these prices if the seller is making these types of quotes. With that said it would seem obvious that if people are willing to pay those types of prices for Polaris Cards If Vega as priced at 500 USD and is clear a superior card to Polaris then an extra 100 dollars is nothing to ask.

Yes Josephine AMD could make money hand over fist on RX Vega without ever impinging on NVIDIA's High Roller Clientele !
Thats just wishful thinking. I bet Nvidia makes a good profit but you thinking that a die this size plus HBM2 will sell for less than 500$ is not realistic. At least you 're better off than others expecting Vega to sell for 400$.
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  #15  
Old 08-07-17, 01:28 PM
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Dicehunter Dicehunter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radioman View Post
snip
Paragraphs dude, Paragraphs.
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  #16  
Old 08-07-17, 05:02 PM
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If AMD sells the GPU at $500, it'll be at a loss, surely.
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  #17  
Old 08-07-17, 05:17 PM
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AlienALX AlienALX is offline
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Originally Posted by AngryGoldfish View Post
If AMD sells the GPU at $500, it'll be at a loss, surely.
And there is the crux.

Catch 22. Big die and HBM means they can't sell it cheap. However, it needs to be cheap. *around and around and around*
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  #18  
Old 08-07-17, 05:57 PM
Radioman Radioman is offline
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Originally Posted by AlienALX View Post
Then there's the opposing side. Fury X wasn't that bad. However, AMD got it all wrong and tried to market it with the 980Ti (because of the cost of producing it) and it failed miserably.
And what is to say that will happen with Vega ? AMD has stated publicly thqat Vega will be priced competitively. Looking at the Frontier Edition Board there are a number of cost cutting measures AMD could implement. Cutting the HBM from 2 dies ( 16GB ) to 1 ( 8GB ) and reducing the VRM sections from 12 to 6.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlienALX View Post
BTW some guys have been saying that maybe gaming mode disables ECC on the HBM.
I applaud Steve Burke and the team at Gamers Nexus for unmasking the Placebo Switch but will still don't know if development of the card is complete. There is ample evidence contained in statements from AMD Officials that it is not. What Steve and GN have done is supply fodder for those that want to scuttle RX Vega before it is even launched. Let no mistake be made the launch of Vega was handled poorly, very poorly. This is what happens when a product is launched before it is ready.
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  #19  
Old 08-07-17, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Radioman View Post
AMD has stated publicly thqat Vega will be priced competitively.
And they stated 1080ti performance. But then again. It could still happen.
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  #20  
Old 08-07-17, 06:08 PM
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But the thing is, the card needs to be launched or else people will just stop waiting. So many guys and gals on this forum alone have given up waiting, and rightly so. It's not like the competition (Nvidia) is waning. They're killing it, and if you can find a good price on your favourite card I say go for it. I've stopped suggesting people should wait.

So while Vega may not be ready and it shouldn't have been made available, at least in its current "Gaming Mode" form, it has to come out or else people will stop caring and move on. As Alien said, catch 22. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
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