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  #11  
Old 19-05-20, 06:18 PM
NeverBackDown NeverBackDown is offline
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That's irrelevant.

The fact of the matter is there is no reason for them to block old BIOS files. Regardless of how large they are they still have to allow bootloader to work to be able to update to a newer BIOS. Which means flashing will still work. So if they let that happen they are purposefully blocking users from going backwards if they so desire.

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  #12  
Old 19-05-20, 06:28 PM
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I doubt they're doing it just because. There is probably a legitimate hurdle, maybe some motherboard vendors made designs which make downgrading possible. At least AsRock has already had UEFIs which can't be rolled back once installed.

I'd like to highlight a bit of GN's earlier video (timestamped): https://youtu.be/T5X-8vZtml8?t=2080

I wonder how much the 16mb and 32mb bios chips cost to manufacturers. Would be funky to see multiple chips, between which you could change with jumpers for CPU support. Bring back the old times:
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  #13  
Old 19-05-20, 06:38 PM
tgrech tgrech is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverBackDown View Post
That's irrelevant.

The fact of the matter is there is no reason for them to block old BIOS files. Regardless of how large they are they still have to allow bootloader to work to be able to update to a newer BIOS. Which means flashing will still work. So if they let that happen they are purposefully blocking users from going backwards if they so desire.
Nope, the bootloader for an embedded chip is within the program memory. You can program the chip to have just the program and not a bootloader, or you can program them to have both if you want to be able to do In-System Programming. If they deem this AGESA is the end of life and need additional memory space, they can allow this BIOS update to no longer contain a flashable bootloader. There is nothing stopping a bootloader within program memory from overwriting itself using XIP on an embedded chip. In fact, in every previous BIOS update the bootloader would overwrite itself, just with another(or the same) bootloader code.

TL;DR: The ability for an embedded processor to rewrite its own program space with new code requires code to already be on the embedded processor to tell it how to rewrite itself, if you delete that code (Which it seems AMD had to do to fit the new microcode in) you need a hardware programming device to flash it again.
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  #14  
Old 19-05-20, 06:44 PM
NeverBackDown NeverBackDown is offline
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The point being even AMD promised it would all work through 2020. Which technically it is but it's an awful experience. The fact they didn't have the foresight to make CPUs that can address a 32mb rom is their own fault and saying "motherboards don't even have it" is purely because it's AMDs fault in the first place because even if the boards supported a larger size the CPU itself couldn't read them. This is the legitimate hurdle.

I just think this is a poor excuse and AMD is using this to look better from a marketing standpoint. For all the crap they throw at Nvidia I just find it ironic. Outside of that I really don't care about it since I am not on the AMD platform.
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  #15  
Old 19-05-20, 07:44 PM
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Whatever the procedure if you have a B450/X470 motherboard you can buy Zen3 and it will work. Up until today, you needed a new board. So overall it is a good thing.
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  #16  
Old 19-05-20, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverBackDown View Post
The point being even AMD promised it would all work through 2020. Which technically it is but it's an awful experience. The fact they didn't have the foresight to make CPUs that can address a 32mb rom is their own fault and saying "motherboards don't even have it" is purely because it's AMDs fault in the first place because even if the boards supported a larger size the CPU itself couldn't read them. This is the legitimate hurdle.

I just think this is a poor excuse and AMD is using this to look better from a marketing standpoint. For all the crap they throw at Nvidia I just find it ironic. Outside of that I really don't care about it since I am not on the AMD platform.
It's a non issue that people are having their usual over the top online nervous breakdowns over.

If you have a B450 or X470 motherboard and you want Zen 3, Then there would be zero point in having the capability to downgrade to an earlier CPU.
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  #17  
Old 19-05-20, 08:41 PM
NeverBackDown NeverBackDown is offline
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Originally Posted by Dicehunter View Post
It's a non issue that people are having their usual over the top online nervous breakdowns over.

If you have a B450 or X470 motherboard and you want Zen 3, Then there would be zero point in having the capability to downgrade to an earlier CPU.
You're missing the point entirely. Please reread what you quoted.

As for your second part. It removes the ability to completely upgrade your setup and then give your parts to say your kid and throw in a cheap Zen 2 CPU from eBay or something. Removing options for the consumer is never good.
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  #18  
Old 19-05-20, 08:49 PM
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Dicehunter Dicehunter is offline
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Originally Posted by NeverBackDown View Post
You're missing the point entirely. Please reread what you quoted.

As for your second part. It removes the ability to completely upgrade your setup and then give your parts to say your kid and throw in a cheap Zen 2 CPU from eBay or something. Removing options for the consumer is never good.
Not missing any point, If you were to do your scenario then you'd just get a budget Zen 3 chip for your kid which will exist by the end of the year when they release and be even cheaper when Zen 4 rolls around next year which will be on a new socket anyway, It's a non issue.

People just love to moan.
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  #19  
Old 19-05-20, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverBackDown View Post
You're missing the point entirely. Please reread what you quoted.

As for your second part. It removes the ability to completely upgrade your setup and then give your parts to say your kid and throw in a cheap Zen 2 CPU from eBay or something. Removing options for the consumer is never good.
To be fair to AMD it's a choice. It's better than the "choice" Intel gave people on Z170 (IE none) and you had to hack your board (and there were about two that worked).

It's better than nothing. TBH? I am amazed they are even bothering with B450. They were really cheap to begin with. I mean, £110 gets you a top end one.

I'd be more miffed if I spent a ton on a X370 tbh.
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  #20  
Old 19-05-20, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by AlienALX View Post
To be fair to AMD it's a choice. It's better than the "choice" Intel gave people on Z170 (IE none) and you had to hack your board (and there were about two that worked).

It's better than nothing. TBH? I am amazed they are even bothering with B450. They were really cheap to begin with. I mean, £110 gets you a top end one.

I'd be more miffed if I spent a ton on a X370 tbh.

With X370 it's different IMO, We had 1st, 2nd and 3rd gen Ryzen support on X370 and AMD are still releasing chipset updates for X370 well into 2020.
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