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-   -   ASUS reveals PCIe 4.0 support for much of their X470 range of motherboards (https://forum.overclock3d.net/showthread.php?t=92646)

WYP 12-07-19 11:37 AM

ASUS reveals PCIe 4.0 support for much of their X470 range of motherboards
 
Some models boast PCIe 4.0 connectivity, others are stuck with 3.0.

https://overclock3d.net/gfx/articles...064451715l.jpg

Read more about ASUS' 400-series AM4 motherboards supporting limited PCIe 4.0 support.

Gothmoth 12-07-19 11:47 AM

i read that correct? the cheaper boards support PCI 4.0 on the fist PCI slot while the expensive ones do not?

demonking 12-07-19 12:27 PM

Doesn't this kind of contradict everything we have been told previously on how PCI-e 4 needed additional hardware that was not in use for PCI-e 3 and that the chipsets would need cooling to manage the additional load on the chipset?
And that this was the justification for the additional price (extra layers needed in the PCB to support the additional connections and more expensive chipset)?
I mean a crosshair 7 is around the 270 to 300 price where as a crosshair 8 is 400.
Something is not right here, admittedly a bonus for anyone on the x470 but if you have bought a x570 because everyone involved told you that you had to if you wanted PCI-e 4 (AMD, board manufacturers, reviewers ect) is kind of misleading and possibly liable.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/14477/amd-confirms-pcie-4-not-coming-to-older-motherboards

Avet 12-07-19 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by demonking (Post 1008543)
Doesn't this kind of contradict everything we have been told previously on how PCI-e 4 needed additional hardware that was not in use for PCI-e 3 and that the chipsets would need cooling to manage the additional load on the chipset?
And that this was the justification for the additional price (extra layers needed in the PCB to support the additional connections and more expensive chipset)?
I mean a crosshair 7 is around the 270 to 300 price where as a crosshair 8 is 400.
Something is not right here, admittedly a bonus for anyone on the x470 but if you have bought a x570 because everyone involved told you that you had to if you wanted PCI-e 4 (AMD, board manufacturers, reviewers ect) is kind of misleading and possibly liable.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/14477/amd-confirms-pcie-4-not-coming-to-older-motherboards

The prominent issue is signal integrity. You can see that m.2 slots are just below the CPU. They are very close and, as stated in the article, those are primary m.2 slots with CPU lanes. Also with PCIe x16 slot, only boards that don't support SLI/CF have some support for PCIe 4.0. Again, they have only one PCIe slot that is connected to CPU. Boards that have lane dividers (a bunch of those square chips that you see between PCIe slots) and support for SLI/CF, in this case, higher-end boards, don't support PCIe 4.0. The second slot is very far from the CPU, and lane dividers don't support PCIe 4.0. That why you need better-built PCBs, and different components. ITX boards have extremely densely packed PCBs, with traces going all around everywhere so I assume it is too noisy to keep adequate signal integrity for PCIe 4.0, hence no support.

PCH has nothing to do with support on x470 boards because support is related only to CPU lanes.

If you know very basic stuff about PCIe lanes, and how stuff is organized on the motherboard it is very logical and makes sense.

If there are any engineers there please correct me if I am wrong.

demonking 12-07-19 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avet (Post 1008545)
The prominent issue is signal integrity. You can see that m.2 slots are just below the CPU. They are very close and, as stated in the article, those are primary m.2 slots with CPU lanes. Also with PCIe x16 slot, only boards that don't support SLI/CF have some support for PCIe 4.0. Again, they have only one PCIe slot that is connected to CPU. Boards that have lane dividers (a bunch of those square chips that you see between PCIe slots) and support for SLI/CF, in this case, higher-end boards, don't support PCIe 4.0. The second slot is very far from the CPU, and lane dividers don't support PCIe 4.0. That why you need better-built PCBs, and different components. ITX boards have extremely densely packed PCBs, with traces going all around everywhere so I assume it is too noisy to keep adequate signal integrity for PCIe 4.0, hence no support.

PCH has nothing to do with support on x470 boards because support is related only to CPU lanes.

If you know very basic stuff about PCIe lanes, and how stuff is organized on the motherboard it is very logical and makes sense.

If there are any engineers there please correct me if I am wrong.

Hey, Not doubting this is possible the article even mentions that there should be no reason why those that have over engineered their PCI-e interface cannot.
Doubting as to why a Robert Hallcock of AMD tells the world if you want PCI-e 4 on any of its chips you have to buy an x570 and then Asus come out and say this was not true.
Quote:

This is an error we are correcting. Pre-X570 boards will not support PCIe Gen 4. There's no guarantee that older motherboards can reliably run the more stringent signaling requirements of Gen4, and we simply cannot have a mix of "yes, no, maybe" in the market for all the older motherboards. The potential for confusion is too high.
When final BIOSes are released for 3rd Gen Ryzen (AGESA 1000+), Gen4 will not be an option anymore. We wish we could've enabled this backwards, but the risk is too great.
Watch TTL's own review on the Ryzen 3 chips where he talks about how x570 is going to be more expensive and how this is justified. or GN or J2C or any other review

Gothmoth 12-07-19 02:22 PM

intel will push to PCI 5.0 just to give amd the finger.


for me PCI 4.0 is no buying argument at all.


i rather buy a x470 for 250 euro then a x570 for 440 euro.
crappy chipset fans, new chipset with possible issues etc...

when i NEED PCI 4.0 in the future i will probably buy another mainboard anyway.... or PCI 5.0 will be the new standard.

tgrech 12-07-19 02:28 PM

X570 is more expensive because of the chip itself, its the first time a Ryzen chipset has been designed by AMD and its the first time one has used 12nm GloFlo, the cost will be down to the more modern node and larger than typical die size for a chipset. The increased costs from the extra PCB layers or cooling will be essentially negligible here.

What Robert says is correct, here the boards themselves are not supporting a PCIe4 interface, they're using the small amount of lanes exposed directly from the chipset die within the CPU package itself(All Ryzen processors are full SoCs with some chipset functionality built in the package). They'd clearly rather manufacturers didn't do this as it creates boards which vary across slots and stuff but can't control them at the end of the day.

NeverBackDown 12-07-19 02:36 PM

Sweet my ITX board supports m.2 4.0

I've wanted a faster a NVMe drive... Now if we can just get reviews on them that are actually in depth

WYP 12-07-19 03:06 PM

There is a difference between AMD supporting a feature, and motherboard manufacturers forcing it to work. As said above it's all about signal integrity, something that's only reliably achieved on X570.

X570 boards are overbuilt, they need to be to guarantee stability in the long haul and to allow PCIe 4.0 to work on PCIe lanes that are far from the CPU and are connected to the chipset or other I/O sections of a motherboard. X570 offers PCIe 4.0 all over the place, whereas 400-series boards can only offer it in some circumstances on only the top PCIe 16x lane (even then rarely), and on the primary M.2 slot that connects directly to the CPU.

Don't expect PCIe 4.0 to work on M.2 slot 2, or on strange configurations where PCIe lanes were split or had some other strangeness going on. MSI's Godlike motherboards etc come to mind.

The lack of consistency is what forced AMD to not officially support PCIe 4.0 on 400 series motherboards. Beyond that, most 400-series boards on the market today probably lack drop in support for Ryzen 3rd Gen, which adds even more problems into the mix for new buyers.

Avet 12-07-19 03:28 PM

I don't know why people are complaining. AMD gave you an option when first Ryzen launched to use any board with any CPU. Please don't put 12 core CPU on the cheapest B350 motherboard. AM4 will be supported until 2020, so at least one more CPU release. Choose your board and be happy with it, and stop complaining.

Ryzen 3000, as have all Ryzen releases before it, is months too early. Again with AGESA updates every few days. Bugs left, right and center. Playback in Premiere not working, Destiny 2 not working. CPUs not hitting advertised clocks. It is not possible that AMD devs didn't know about this stuff. Even Wendell from Level1techs has no clue what is happening and that tells you a lot. It is a good product, but it is a mess at the moment.


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