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Old 03-07-06, 09:33 AM
Ham Ham is offline
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Building a Phase

Right. This year im toying with the idea of building a phase change unit for my A2 d&t project. Ive read all the info on here and a fair few from the 'usful links' section, and i understand the basics now.

Im wondering now, if i go ahead with this project what standards will it have to adhear(sp?) to?

And my teacher has kindly informed me that we arn't allowed to test and fill the thing on site. So is there anywhere i could send it to have it certified?

Lastly, is it worth the effort? Is it hard/costly to get the parts in the UK?

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Old 03-07-06, 09:59 AM
PV5150 PV5150 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by name='"Ham"'
Right. This year im toying with the idea of building a phase change unit for my A2 d&t project
Nice one mate, that's gotta get you some good marks. How are your braze welding skills? As far as certification is concerned, I'd imagine you have to do at least a short course in basic refrigeration. You should check with NoL about what is required, although I'm sure there will be some differences between US and UK requirements. Best of luck with your project mate
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Old 03-07-06, 10:17 AM
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I don't know abot in the UK but here in the US we don't have our phase units "certified" in any way. The only standards it has to adhere to are personal standards

The parts to build a phase are actually quite inexpensive and rather easy to get. You can get all of the parts required to build your own unit for about $300 your first go around (since you need to buy all of the tools and get a vacuum pump or make your own from a compressor). After that if you build more you can get all of the required parts for about $200-$250. This is if you build your own evap, it will be a bit more expensive if you buy a premade evap such as a chilly1 which runs about $100.

Have fun mate!
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Old 04-07-06, 08:20 AM
Ham Ham is offline
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Cheers for the answers guys. I can learn to weld quickly as ive got the expertise tp help me, and if i cant do it dad/teachers can for me.

As for the certification, the compressors in schools need to be tested before use, then once a year after that. Not me needing to be certified to build it PV (if thats what you ment, if not ignore).

As for tools im pretty sure ive got everything id ever need at home/school. Vac pumps can be 'aquired' form the chemistry dpt.

Is it diffiuclt to build the evap?

And exactly what kind of compressor am i looking for? or are they all smilialr?
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Old 04-07-06, 03:18 PM
llwyd llwyd is offline
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guys what about the compresser out of the back of a fridge? i think theres a few around
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Old 04-07-06, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ham
Cheers for the answers guys. I can learn to weld quickly as ive got the expertise tp help me, and if i cant do it dad/teachers can for me.

As for the certification, the compressors in schools need to be tested before use, then once a year after that. Not me needing to be certified to build it PV (if thats what you ment, if not ignore).

As for tools im pretty sure ive got everything id ever need at home/school. Vac pumps can be 'aquired' form the chemistry dpt.

Is it diffiuclt to build the evap?

And exactly what kind of compressor am i looking for? or are they all smilialr?
The evap would be the hardest part of the project to build if that's the route you decide to take. NoL can show you how to build a very nice and very simple cap in cap evap. I was hoping that he would have already replied to this thread, I'll point him here next time I see him on. There's a lot of purging that has to be done when making an evap and such.

Good thing you can score a true vac pump, better than ghetto rigging a second compressor for the job

The two main types of compressors are reciprocal and rotary compressors. Both have their ups and downs. Recips are most commonly used because of their small size which makes them the best choice for building in a tight space. Rotary compressors usually pack a bit more punch but are tall and makes them hard to fit in tight spaces, they can also be quite loud. It's all up to personal preference really, but I would probably tell you to start off with a rotary if you're not going to be building it in to a case or anything.
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Old 05-07-06, 10:57 AM
Ham Ham is offline
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Having had a look for pre made evaps i think im going to have to build my own. The chilly1 is the onlyone i can find in the UK and that retails at ~£150. Wich is way too expensive. So ill have to wait for an answer from Nol im guessing.

I should have mentioned to start with that i have to design and make this unit as if it was to be a retail product. Going by a spec ive not yet wirtten but im geussing one of the points im gonna have to make is size. So a reciprocal would probably be best, I'll look into both.

How difficult is filling?

As llwyd said could i just knick a compressor out a fridge? How much of the stuff is stealable from a freezer unit?

I know a popular fly tipping site in town...

Also what kind of tubing do i need for the fliex line? Im guessing not copper and a plastic that wont freeze?
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Old 05-07-06, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ham
Having had a look for pre made evaps i think im going to have to build my own. The chilly1 is the onlyone i can find in the UK and that retails at ~£150. Wich is way too expensive. So ill have to wait for an answer from Nol im guessing.

I should have mentioned to start with that i have to design and make this unit as if it was to be a retail product. Going by a spec ive not yet wirtten but im geussing one of the points im gonna have to make is size. So a reciprocal would probably be best, I'll look into both.

How difficult is filling?

As llwyd said could i just knick a compressor out a fridge? How much of the stuff is stealable from a freezer unit?

I know a popular fly tipping site in town...

Also what kind of tubing do i need for the fliex line? Im guessing not copper and a plastic that wont freeze?
You could get a compressor from a fridge, but your best bet is to knick one from an air conditioning unit, like a window mount. Those usually have a substantially sized compressor for the job. You can even use the condensor as well, but they're pretty big so it may not fit in with what you're trying to do..

The flex line is a stainless metal braided hose. You can more than likely get one of the phase guys in the UK to make you a custom length line for a good price. This is an example of what I'm talking about: http://www.under-the-ice.com/product...products_id=29

I haven't seen NoL on in a few days, he may be out of town for the 4th of July. I'll have him swing through as soon as I can get ahold of him to answer any of your other questions.
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Old 06-07-06, 01:48 PM
Ham Ham is offline
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Cheers frag

Ive just read the evap building guide over at http://www.phase-change.com. And it seams like alot of work, but possible.

However i cant find anything that gives me a basic diagram of a very basic evap that shows more how they work, have i overlooked somthing?

Air-con units arn't very common anround here. But fridges/freezers are, and i can pick one too bits for free.

I swear my dad has some tubing like that somewhere so ill speak to him about it. If not it there anything liek that in a fridge/freezer?

Next hurdle is the coolent. Frion is illegal here so what else can i use? Propane, butane, ethanol?

Also what kind of pressures are we looking at?

I only want this to cool to fairly low temps if the product goes ahead. id be happy with anything sub-0.
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Old 07-07-06, 10:31 AM
PV5150 PV5150 is offline
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When does this project have to be completed Ham? Have you chatted with Frag and Melted Duron...drop 'em a PM, they may be able to assist. Or even NoL when he's here



Overclockers.com have a little info that may be helpful.
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