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  #11  
Old 13-07-09, 06:59 PM
sammytomjohn sammytomjohn is offline
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the mad max age is coming soon the world' society is gonna come crashin down just like when the romans ruled! where is cesar now?? hey??

i just hope my son doesnt hav to go through it! it wouldnt be such a bad thing if the human race was wiped off the earth(it would be ecologically friendly) but you hav to keep ur family tree branchin out for the human race depends on it!!

we really need to see world war 3 tho too keep population numbers down!

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  #12  
Old 13-07-09, 07:05 PM
Jeddy Jeddy is offline
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TBH people should be allowed to have children if they so desired. The arguement about people breeding beyond their means is an interesting one. Poor families of the 1800's used to have 8-10 children on incomes a fraction of the miniumum wage in todays money. However the reason for having the children was for them to work and to earn, and also to offset the inevitable loss of a child or two to disease.

I'm pretty libertarian so I'd say that if people want to have children and are prepared to care for them then it is not selfish. A great deal of this debate would be circumvented if it was not for social securities and benefits. However, it is among the most natural things that species reproduce and I do not think there should be any "cap" or similar on if people can have children. Or then you end up with a system like China where women regularly die in botched "abortions" because they get pregnant after having one child, or the hundreds of abandoned chinese girls because boys are more "valuable" economically.

I think that a child being brought into the world is a great thing. However people need to understand that there is a significant responsibility in having children. That is something that needs to be ingrained in SOCIETY and in our CULTURE and those two things cannot be changed by laws and litigation.

As for abortions, as I'm sure it will come up in this thread, I feel that people should be able to have an abortion if the mother's life is in danger, or that of the child or both. However the abortions for "a one night stand" is wrong, but it is also right. Those who get pregnant in these circumstances are most likely to NOT look after a child, but there also needs to be a consequence and responsibility for their actions.

It is an interesting debate and like many worldly issues I doubt (unfortunately) there is a perfect solution.
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  #13  
Old 13-07-09, 07:27 PM
lasher lasher is offline
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As a Dad of three... all girls! I wouldn't say I'm selfish more borderline lunatic.

Nothing but a daily grind of putting food on the table, wondering what disaster is going to present its self on a daily basis ah the list goes on, but you know what, I wouldn't change it for the world.

The first two, now 13 and 12 were born when money was tight and the first few years i did ponder if i was bringing children into the world with the right means at my disposal. Its a very expensive operation that needs planning and a lot of patience. Those of you who don't have children or are not at that age where you should be considering it, go ask your parents what the first few years were like. Unless your from a wealthy family I bet they all had reservations. Love only goes so far in bringing up a child. Money does the rest.

The 3rd born was planned, considered and went like a military operation purely due to having the experience.

Believe me as the years progress it does not get easier, it just changes. Its kind of like groundhog day with me at the minute with such an age gap between the two.

The older two im begining to worry about the company their keeping, whilst the younger one im worrying about what expensive item shes going to break next or doodle all over!

Not asked for anything off the government although have taken the usual child benefit etc. That goes into the kids account for their future, not mine.

Those who have children for financial reasons deserve to be shot, if they think child support and child benefit is a income instead of going to work.

As Jim mentioned it feels like you only exist to provide for your kids. I know i do and sometimes feel guilty when I'm looking to make a purchase for myself when i could be spending the money on them.

Now on the plus side and let me tell you there are thousands, they make you laugh daily, they make you a better person, they fill you with pride when they achieve ( maybe that's a selfish act? ), they give your life a purpose i.e. a goal to work to, rather than just live your own selfish life, die and leave nothing.

Better stop now as I'm rambling :sleep:

Good one Jim, made me think rather than watch crappy soaps on T.V. with the wife and talk about the kids. errrr?
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  #14  
Old 13-07-09, 08:00 PM
FarFarAway FarFarAway is offline
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Selfish? Difficult. For some who have a kid to earn their benefits I'd have to say "yes". For those who make an honest mistake and make the best of it, that's hardly selfish.

For those who plan to have children and really want them and care for them it's not a selfish act at all. I know a few friends who've had children who I'd never have imagined with kids. It's actually pretty moving listening to them talk about their kids and see how much they care for them. Selfish? Not at all imo.

For me and the other half, we're possibly going to have children if we get to a stage where we have a decent financial basis for it and a big enough house. Sounds clinical but it's not at all. I want kids, sometimes I look at people with kids and feel that weird feeling when you know you want it to be you some day. Like many (most) others, I'm sure they'll be my whole life and I would do everything for them.

Having children is a pretty selfless act really when you look at it. They take up most of your funds, all of your time, most (if not all) of your love and a lot of your waking life. Hard to argue that's selfish isn't it?

Did my parents have me and my bro to be selfish? Hel no, they certainly didn't. I think a lot of it is wanting to bring something into the world and sure a lot of it is 'programmed' in from evolution. Difficult to argue with millions of years of evolution
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  #15  
Old 13-07-09, 08:05 PM
nathan nathan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by name='Jim'
I was thinking about this yesterday....

Would it be fair to say that most couples who decide that they 'want' children do it for their own satisfaction and for the experience?

If so, does that then make them selfish for bringing a child into the world as it is today. Knowing that they'll more than likely spend 90% of their entire life working, paying bills, putting up with what the world has become, only to eventually one day meet their demise?

If you had the choice as an embrio to come into this world or give it a miss, knowing all that you currently know about life, would you?

Deep i know, but I'm just interested in other people's POV's.
Although they may spend most of their life working, paying bills etc. It makes them enjoy the finer things in life more. If life were easy, the things we enjoy today wouldnt be enjoyed as much.

I'd much rather be busy working for enjoyment, then have enjoyment all the time and eventually get bored of it, to then have nothing to look forward too.

Nothing in life is easy and i think thats the way it should be, else we'll have a nation of lazy feckers! hold on a minute...

Although there may be a lot of bad in this world, there's certainly a lot of good. Some people get great pleasure from doing things for the greater good, there's no telling you wont give birth to someone with this mindset.

I certainly agree that parents do it for their satisfaction, from conceiving to the day he/she becomes an adult.

Soooo, if i were an embrio, i'd certainly want to be born.

...although with a ***** like an anaconda
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  #16  
Old 15-07-09, 11:12 PM
Bungral Bungral is offline
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I enjoy life so yeah I'd still wanna be born.

As for the selfishness question.. Well I'll leave that to the people who can be arsed to type reasoning.

I agree with most that has been said, that it depends on the situation.
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  #17  
Old 16-07-09, 09:41 AM
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Rastalovich Rastalovich is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by name='nathan'

Nothing in life is easy ...
Without complications, getting pregnant is extremely easy.

One of the most important things ur allowed to do in life whilst pished.
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  #18  
Old 16-07-09, 10:00 AM
Kerotan Kerotan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by name='Kempez'
Having children is a pretty selfless act really when you look at it. They take up most of your funds, all of your time, most (if not all) of your love and a lot of your waking life. Hard to argue that's selfish isn't it?
Agree with that.^^

However I often think about it as not that having kids is selfish, but how many. Right now the world population is spiralling out of control and pretty soon there simply won't be enough food and a lot of people will start dying. If everyone had 2 children, then the world population would remain at a relatively stable level, but the only states who can exercise that kind of control over their subjects are regimes like China bringing in the one child policy to curb population growth.

As the 3rd child in a 3-child family I wouldn't be here if everyone was only allowed to have 2 children, which is a strange thing to think about, but if it meant life was better for my sisters & their children, grandchildren etc (which for people born in my generation was not an issue but will be one day) then I would understand if my parents had decided not to have more than 2 kids.

People who have lots of children because it is a show of wealth or power in their culture need to be educated, because using children as a status indicator is very selfish. Having 8 kids when you barely have the means to support one is a terrible thing to do, but the education on birth-control just isn't there, and the mortality rate is so high people probably just want to hedge their bets.

I think that in countries like the UK, where teen pregnancy is rife, people's attitudes need to change. If a girl gets pregnant through a drunken mistake, it's far better that the child doesn't come into the world when it will have a bad upbringing and probably end up making the exact same mistake as its parents creating a vicious cycle. Most girls are far too quick to say "I'm keeping the baby" without even thinking if that's what is best for the baby.
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  #19  
Old 16-07-09, 10:21 AM
Youngie1337 Youngie1337 is offline
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Everyone has different views, as you can see from the replies. My own personal opinion is that it's not selfish, as long as the parents comit 110% or more into bringing the child up. My other half has a friend who I must say, isn't the smartest of the bunch, but they grew up in school together.

She has just had a child with some guy who was constantly kicked out of school, who spent a year in prison missing his child's birth, Christmas and now just smokes weed and never commits. She wanted a family for reasons unknown to me, but she seems great with the kid and is trying to work some more. The other day she split up with him, he never does anything and has other kids with 2 other girls. People like this do NOT deserve kids and is selfish in the acts they do. Myself, hell I'd be over the moon and commit 2000% because I know that a bringing up a child is one of the hardest things there is.

Anyway enough rambling, my opinion:

You are committed - yes go ahead have 10 children, bring them up loving them.

You're not willing to work - don't even bother thinking about it.
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  #20  
Old 16-07-09, 10:35 AM
BustaH BustaH is offline
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Well its a very primal basic instinct to reproduce is one thing however it all depends on the angle of the parent/s in question.

sometimes I think our society is over-civilized [if you know what I mean]

As a parent myself, I think it can be a selfish thing, but also can be a very unselfish thing....two sides of a coin really.

Children can give so much joy, but also a lot of heartache too... just my thoughts.

but yes parents need to be 100% commited.
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